Gaza war crimes.

[Park Life 71]

This is not a military that we recognise," said Mikhael Manekin, one of the former soldiers involved with the group. "This is in a different category to things we have seen before. We have spoken to a lot of different people who served in different places in Gaza, including officers. We are not talking about some units being more aggressive than others, but underlying policy. So much so that we are talking to soldiers who said that they were having to restrain the orders given."

 

Manekin described how soldiers had reported their units being specifically warned by officers not to discuss what they had seen and done in Gaza.

 

The outlines of the evidence gathered comes hard on the heels of the disclosure by the Oranim Academy's pre-military course last week of devastating witness accounts supplied by soldiers involved in the fighting, including the "unjustified" shooting of civilians.

 

The claims appear to add credence to widespread claims of Israeli soldiers firing on civilians, made by Palestinians to journalists and international investigators and lawyers who entered Gaza at the end of the conflict and in its aftermath.

 

With Israeli newspapers threatening new disclosures, the New York Times has weighed in with an interview with a reservist describing the rules of engagement for the Gaza operation. Amir Marmor, a 33-year-old military reservist, told the newspaper that he was stunned to discover the way civilian casualties were discussed in training talks before his tank unit entered Gaza in January.

 

"Shoot and don't worry about the consequences" was the message from commanders, said Marmor. Describing the behaviour of a lieutenant-colonel who briefed the troops, Marmor added: "His whole demeanour was extremely gung-ho. This is very, very different from my usual experience. I have been doing reserve duty for 12 years, and it was always an issue how to avoid causing civilian injuries. He said that in this operation, we are not taking any chances. Morality aside, we have to do our job. We will cry about it later.

 

 

 

 

Firing on civilians is a war crime.

[Rob W 0]

aye - and one day the boot will be on the other foot

[Douggy B 0]

What a load of shit, where does it say there that the Israeli's were targeting civilians?

 

In war civilians get hurt, its a sad truth. I am pretty sure our soldiers will be told the same.

 

All soldiers in a war situation shoot first and ask questions later.

 

More anti Israel bullshit.

[Park Life 71]

What a load of shit, where does it say there that the Israeli's were targeting civilians?

 

In war civilians get hurt, its a sad truth. I am pretty sure our soldiers will be told the same.

 

All soldiers in a war situation shoot first and ask questions later.

 

More anti Israel bullshit.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge. I guess you know more about it than the actual sodiers who have been fighting in Gaza who are voicing their concerns.

 

[Douggy B 0]

What a load of shit, where does it say there that the Israeli's were targeting civilians?

 

In war civilians get hurt, its a sad truth. I am pretty sure our soldiers will be told the same.

 

All soldiers in a war situation shoot first and ask questions later.

 

More anti Israel bullshit.

 

I bow to your superior knowledge. I guess you know more about it than the actual sodiers who have been fighting in Gaza who are voicing their concerns.

 

 

No I don't claim to but I am also not stupid enough to read every story I read and believe its spin. From what I see from that article is that one reservist has voiced concerns. Hardly an outcry from the forces saying they were ordered to fire on civilians.

 

We all know every news outlet has its own agenda.

[ImpossiblyDaft 1]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Israel has a history when it comes to stuff like this so it wouldn't surprise me if every last word was true.

[Douggy B 0]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know it will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the

neck up.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Danny B

[Guest alex]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

[Douggy B 0]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

[acrossthepond 866]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

The Red Cross, who are on record criticising Israel's humanitarian record hundreds of times?

[Douggy B 0]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

The Red Cross, who are on record criticising Israel's humanitarian record hundreds of times?

 

And also criticised the allied invasion of Iraq, its a war, bad things happen, the red cross get the hump.

 

That's how these things work.

[Park Life 71]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

The Red Cross, who are on record criticising Israel's humanitarian record hundreds of times?

 

And also criticised the allied invasion of Iraq, its a war, bad things happen, the red cross get the hump.

 

That's how these things work.

 

 

Do you try and oversimplify or is that just the level you can render facts on?

 

You're coming across a bit glib about the death of people I'm sure that isn't your intention. If it is you must be some kind of uttter cunt.

 

Are you?

 

Btw your lefty jibes are about 20 years out of date.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

'The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire,' said the soldier.

 

'I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to ... I don't know how to describe it .... The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers,' said the squad leader.

 

Another squad leader from the same brigade told of an incident where the company commander ordered that an elderly Palestinian woman be shot and killed. She was walking on a road about 100 meters from a house the company had commandeered.

 

He said he argued with his commander about the permissive rules of engagement, but after the orders were changed, his soldiers complained that 'we should kill everyone there [in the center of Gaza]. Everyone there is a terrorist.'

 

He said some soldiers also wrote 'death to the Arabs' on the walls of a house and spat on family pictures.

[acrossthepond 866]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

The Red Cross, who are on record criticising Israel's humanitarian record hundreds of times?

 

And also criticised the allied invasion of Iraq, its a war, bad things happen, the red cross get the hump.

 

That's how these things work.

So your point against the Red Cross's impartiality is that they also criticised the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation? Batting a thousand in my opinion - that means they've got it all right if you're not savvy to Americanisms. Or is your point the fact that the Red Cross will always be against violent conflict because it means people get killed? I could think of worse 'agendas'.

 

Absolute shit argument Danny, I'd say stick to football but your footy banter is even worse tbh.

[Kitman 2204]

The story is from a credible newspaper based on reports from credible sources. The accounts match the widely reported anecdotes of indiscriminate butchery of women and children on the ground at the time. But hats off to the international conspiracy of communists and anti-semites for doing such a thorough job on a respected British newspaper.

[Park Life 71]

The story is from a credible newspaper based on reports from credible sources. The accounts match the widely reported anecdotes of indiscriminate butchery of women and children on the ground at the time. But hats off to the international conspiracy of communists and anti-semites for doing such a thorough job on a respected British newspaper.

 

[Douggy B 0]

The story is from a credible newspaper based on reports from credible sources. The accounts match the widely reported anecdotes of indiscriminate butchery of women and children on the ground at the time. But hats off to the international conspiracy of communists and anti-semites for doing such a thorough job on a respected British newspaper.

 

Mate I don't believe in conspiracies, as I say only multiple versions of the same truth.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Danny B

[Guest alex]

There was an article on the front page of The Independent a couple of days ago - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/mi...za-1649527.html

 

Hardly the home of crazed conspiracy theories.

 

No but they know if will draw the lefties in like flies to shit.

 

American or Israeli aggression = Satan's work

 

Aggression against either = Getting what they deserve for foreign policy...blah blah blah.

 

I stopped listening a long time ago because anybody with half a brain knows that there is always more than one version of the truth.

 

What makes me laugh is the lefty conspiracy theorists question everything accept those wonderful theories they are fed. Its escapism, nothing more. It makes them feel intelligent. They are normally jobless no marks who have two hours free to watch "loose change", then they can pat themselves on the back for not "buying into the system". If I had my way benefits for people like that would be withdrawn.

 

Same goes for the George Galloway thread. Anybody who buys into his particular brand of bullshit needs a check up from the k

neck up.

Do you reckon it's only the media that has an agenda btw?

 

Do you know anybody who doesn't?

It's not normally as obvious as it it in yours or Parky's case though

[Rob W 0]

"he did his job according to the orders he was given"

 

I seem to have heard that defence before .... now where was it?????

[Park Life 71]

"he did his job according to the orders he was given"

 

I seem to have heard that defence before .... now where was it?????

 

Dannystien ought to remember.

[Douggy B 0]

"he did his job according to the orders he was given"

 

I seem to have heard that defence before .... now where was it?????

 

Dannystien ought to remember.

 

You should know you live amongst them.

 

I bet you fit right in over there, in a country that was too afraid to have a national identity up to about three years ago.

 

Can you wave a flag without being frowned upon now?

[Rob W 0]

I think they were a bit too quiet for too long

 

but come on Dannyboy - is "I was only obeying orders" a valid defence or not?

[The Fish 10662]

It is awful, but it's war. Who is so naive to think that the horror of war will be anything less than appalling.

 

 

p.s. I'm so glad no innocent Israeli's died in the conflicts, cos that would make all this indignation hypocritical...

[Park Life 71]

"In one incident, the researchers found a Palestinian, Muhammad Shurrab, 64, and his sons Qassab, 28, and Ibrahim, 18, were shot by Israeli troops at close range without warning on 16 January during a ceasefire. Qassab was hit in the face and died soon after. Ibrahim was hit in the leg. The soldiers refused to give medical aid, and only after 23 hours was an ambulance allowed to approach, by which time Ibrahim was also dead.

 

Yohanna Lerman, a lawyer with the medical rights groups, said although their report was a preliminary investigation this one case alone was enough to indict Israel's political and military leaders."