Drugs - Time to legalise - The Economist

[Kid Dynamite 7031]

There's the Gejon thread on this very forum which is testament to that

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I believe I'm individual freedom and responsibility. If you try something and it doesn't work for you, don't fucking do it. I had a terrible experience in mushrooms, decided it wasn't for me, never did it again.

 

Some people are incapable of making good decisions regarding drugs. Putting them away in prison doesn't necessarily help on that score.

[adios 717]

 

And what about those who do suffer from addiction problems? Who develop health problems. Who lose control and turn to crime to fund their habits? What about them?

 

I know that's the standard scare story that those who oppose legalisation put up but just because you can handle it doesn't mean that everyone can.

Why is that your problem?

 

And if you're really worried about crime, end the drug war, legalise and tax drugs, increase sentences for violent offenders, and make the world a much, much better place overnight.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Basically I'd like that happy, mellow, chilled, slightly giggly drug.

 

Which ones that.

[Alex 35095]

I believe I'm individual freedom and responsibility. If you try something and it doesn't work for you, don't fucking do it. I had a terrible experience in mushrooms, decided it wasn't for me, never did it again.

 

Some people are incapable of making good decisions regarding drugs. Putting them away in prison doesn't necessarily help on that score.

Not a very apt comparison though, is it? I mean, how many magic mushroom addicts are there kicking about? It's probably about the least harmful substance out there with little or no physical dependence issues so even if you'd loved it I don't think you'd have turned into a 10 a day man.

[Holden McGroin 6588]

Basically I'd like that happy, mellow, chilled, slightly giggly drug.

 

Which ones that.

 

MDMA

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

MDMA

Instantly thinks of flat pack furniture so heads off to Google.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Not a very apt comparison though, is it? I mean, how many magic mushroom addicts are there kicking about? It's probably about the least harmful substance out there with little or no physical dependence issues so even if you'd loved it I don't think you'd have turned into a 10 a day man.

 

yeah, maybe not, but the point about responsibility and freedom stands.

 

i should assume responsible for my own decisions and their consequences, not the government.

 

i've never injected heroin. in my opinion you'd have to be a moron to make a decision like that because the potential consequences are well documented. but it should still be an individual's right to make that decision.

 

and what does turning people that make poor decisions regarding drugs into criminals actually achieve? if anything it exacerbates the situation further.

 

if drugs were legalised and properly regulated, the money that lines the dealers' pockets could instead be spent on offering better quality education, advice, support and care for addicts, among other things.

 

would there suddenly be a drug addict epidemic if drugs were legalised? i doubt it.

[Renton 21627]

 

yeah, maybe not, but the point about responsibility and freedom stands.

 

i should assume responsible for my own decisions and their consequences, not the government.

 

i've never injected heroin. in my opinion you'd have to be a moron to make a decision like that because the potential consequences are well documented. but it should still be an individual's right to make that decision.

 

and what does turning people that make poor decisions regarding drugs into criminals actually achieve? if anything it exacerbates the situation further.

 

if drugs were legalised and properly regulated, the money that lines the dealers' pockets could instead be spent on offering better quality education, advice, support and care for addicts, among other things.

 

would there suddenly be a drug addict epidemic if drugs were legalised? i doubt it.

Well as long as you doubt it that's me convinced.

[ChezGiven 0]

Basically I'd like that happy, mellow, chilled, slightly giggly drug.

 

Which ones that.

 

Garden sheds, indoor gyms, budgies..... drugs.

[Alex 35095]

 

yeah, maybe not, but the point about responsibility and freedom stands.

 

i should assume responsible for my own decisions and their consequences, not the government.

 

i've never injected heroin. in my opinion you'd have to be a moron to make a decision like that because the potential consequences are well documented. but it should still be an individual's right to make that decision.

 

and what does turning people that make poor decisions regarding drugs into criminals actually achieve? if anything it exacerbates the situation further.

 

if drugs were legalised and properly regulated, the money that lines the dealers' pockets could instead be spent on offering better quality education, advice, support and care for addicts, among other things.

 

would there suddenly be a drug addict epidemic if drugs were legalised? i doubt it.

I think it's an oversimplification to point to one's individual freedom as being the major consideration here. If look at certain drugs then they can potentially cause harm to the individual taking them. If you look at other ones, they have this potential whilst also being harmful to people not taking the drugs (generally speaking, as there will always be extreme examples). Ironically, alcohol is the most widely available and socially acceptable drug going and it's about the worst one for both of those factors. Whether the legal status of drugs makes things better or worse is more open to debate. I tend to think it makes things worse overall, but also think the importance of considering each one separately needs to be stressed. As ever though, I find it really depressing because the debates on places like this are far more honest and open than anything the tabloid morality would allow our politicians to discuss in public.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

 

Garden sheds, indoor gyms, budgies..... drugs.

 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Well as long as you doubt it that's me convinced.

 

glad to have your vote.

 

seriously though, is there any evidence to suggest that countries that legalise or decriminalise certain drugs see an alarming uptake in users?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I think it's an oversimplification to point to one's individual freedom as being the major consideration here. If look at certain drugs then they can potentially cause harm to the individual taking them. If you look at other ones, they have this potential whilst also being harmful to people not taking the drugs (generally speaking, as there will always be extreme examples). Ironically, alcohol is the most widely available and socially acceptable drug going and it's about the worst one for both of those factors. Whether the legal status of drugs makes things better or worse is more open to debate. I tend to think it makes things worse overall, but also think the importance of considering each one separately needs to be stressed. As ever though, I find it really depressing because the debates on places like this are far more honest and open than anything the tabloid morality would allow our politicians to discuss in public.

 

it's been a jolly interesting debate, particularly as it's brought you back from the shadows.

 

have you been lurking the whole time? how come you gave up posting for so long?

[ewerk 30620]

Why is that your problem?

 

And if you're really worried about crime, end the drug war, legalise and tax drugs, increase sentences for violent offenders, and make the world a much, much better place overnight.

 

My memory may be failing me here but don't you have experience of addiction problems? It isn't as easy as saying throw the criminals in jail.

[Renton 21627]

Ironically, alcohol is the most widely available and socially acceptable drug going and it's about the worst one for both of those.

I don't think it's ironic, the answer is in the statement. Alcohol is virtually ubiquitous in British society. I'm not sure if any other drug was used to the extent alcohol is that they wouldn't cause worse problems. Can you imagine going to the local after work for a shot of heroin or crack cocaine?

 

Alcohol is also one of the few drugs where it is possible to take and enjoy in moderation with no health implications or even benefits. You couldn't say this about smoking, for example. Of course, a percentage of people are going to be negatively affected though. I suspect that percentage is actually less than most other drugs and virtually all class A's.

[Alex 35095]

 

it's been a jolly interesting debate, particularly as it's brought you back from the shadows.

 

have you been lurking the whole time? how come you gave up posting for so long?

Lurk a bit. Gave up posting mainly due to lack of interest in the football (especially NUFC). Glad I don't give a fuck anymore tbh.

[ewerk 30620]

I believe I'm individual freedom and responsibility. If you try something and it doesn't work for you, don't fucking do it. I had a terrible experience in mushrooms, decided it wasn't for me, never did it again.

 

Some people are incapable of making good decisions regarding drugs. Putting them away in prison doesn't necessarily help on that score.

 

It's not entirely dissimilar to the payday loans debate, it's easy to say that people should take responsibility for themselves (I've said it myself) but the fact is that a lot of people simply can't help themselves which is why the government needs to protect them from themselves.

[ClubSpinDoctor 0]

 

And what about those who do suffer from addiction problems? Who develop health problems. Who lose control and turn to crime to fund their habits? What about them?

 

I know that's the standard scare story that those who oppose legalisation put up but just because you can handle it doesn't mean that everyone can.

 

Same could be said for gambling tbh. People can get addicted to anything pleasurable. Should we just ban everything?

[ewerk 30620]

 

Same could be said for gambling tbh. People can get addicted to anything pleasurable. Should we just ban everything?

 

There are of course comparisons to be drawn but from a practical and political perspective there's a big difference in banning a currently existing activity and legalising one that is already outlawed.

[ClubSpinDoctor 0]

I think the morally, the gambling industry is worse than the drug industry. I could go to a casino and bankrupt myself in a day, I'd be able to get off my tits for years before it came to that with drugs

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Lurk a bit. Gave up posting mainly due to lack of interest in the football (especially NUFC). Glad I don't give a fuck anymore tbh.

 

yeah, the football board is a fairly tedious place to post these days.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

 

MDMA

true

 

i can just imagine CT gurning in his living room to the sounds of Abba and Whitney Houston

[Alex 35095]

I don't think it's ironic, the answer is in the statement. Alcohol is virtually ubiquitous in British society. I'm not sure if any other drug was used to the extent alcohol is that they wouldn't cause worse problems. Can you imagine going to the local after work for a shot of heroin or crack cocaine?

 

Alcohol is also one of the few drugs where it is possible to take and enjoy in moderation with no health implications or even benefits. You couldn't say this about smoking, for example. Of course, a percentage of people are going to be negatively affected though. I suspect that percentage is actually less than most other drugs and virtually all class A's.

I was largely basing that on an article in the Spectator I read a while back which in turn was based on the findings of a piece of research in the Lancet. To be honest, I can't remember if the scoring system they used scored the harm according to society as a whole or per capita based on the number of users.

Edit: Actually I think it was The Economist article Rob posted at the start of this thread (which was a few years back, in my defence).

Edited July 29, 2014 by Alex

[Alex 35095]

sugaRape!

I'm glad somebody got the reference anyway.