IF We go down

[Toonpack 10399]

 

You clearly 'couldnt give a fuck' what I think then. Aye righto.

 

Started spouting shit similar to this the last time you flounced off vowing never to return. Grow up man you're in your 50's ffs.

 

nah, just convinced of my opinions, which are factually based by the way. "Debate" them as much as you like, but you have spouted bollocks and are still doiing it.

 

Positives of being relegated ? What a joke.

 

 

 

I wouldnt waste a moment debating your opinions. I havent either as is clearly evident. You started banging on about Shepherd again (shock horror) and I didnt even think to respond.

 

which is the best idea, as the successors to the Halls and Shepherd have proceeded to make a right old cack handed job of it, despite you and others thinking it wasn't possible.

 

Leazes your position is bollocks man, you would have slagged whoever took over from your pal Shepherd , the current incumbent does appear less than competent BUT the fact is, we're still in the tailspin your mate put us in, and I doubt very much we'd be better off if Shepherd, or anyone else for that matter, was running the show.

 

such daft comments let you down. I stated my view, which was fully vindicated. I partly expected some people to blame the Halls and Shepherd for the position we are in, scorning the approach which gave you regular european football, champions league football, a completely transformed and full to capacity stadium and a couple of FA Cup Finals. Why don't you go the whole hog and blame Gordon Lee [if you have any idea who he was].

 

Leazes man, your view is based solely on the fact that it's not Shepherd. Anyone new would have received your bile, I would also suggest your view is yet to be vindicated, this year is marginally worse at this time than Shepherds later time.

 

 

As for the Halls and the Shepherds, yes they gave us the best years I've ever seen, but the good years came to an end under Shepherds stewardship, we are purely where we are because of him, as evidenced over the last few years. How quickly we turn around (or don't) is the measure of the current regime.

 

And as for your Gordon Lee comment the manager at the time of my first attended game was Joe Harvey

[LeazesMag 0]

Tell me Renton, as you deny disagreeing with me that it would be very difficult to replace the Halls and Shepherd with someone who would do so well, which ought to be so easy because you think they were such fuckwits, how long do you think it will be before it happens ?

 

In fact, as mancmag wants to have a debate on this issue, why not debate it with him/her ? I'll abstain from that one though, because I think it will be very difficult and might take years, but I've always said that.

 

I deny endorsing Ashley at any time or saying it was impossible for us to be worse run than under Shepherd, just for the record. I did advocate a change in ownership as I think the time with Shepherd had simply run its course. He had made too many disastrous managerial appointments and didn't have the financial backing to get us back to where he once had us in my opinion. I also hugely resent the amount of money he took from the club. I stand by this. Would I want Ashley to take us over in hindsight though - no, I wouldn't.

 

I guess you're asking how long you think it will be before Ashley sells and the new owner gets us in the average top 6 position we had under Shepherd? I haven't got a clue. Could be 5 years, but the pessimist in me thinks never.

 

the next owner might not be as good/successful as the Halls and Shepherd either. Is this something else you fail to think is possible ?

 

Why are you so flippant about finishing in top 6 positions ? Do you seriously think it is so easy ?

 

Without being funny [well Ok I'm deservedly taking the piss] someone with the brain that you have should realise its quite difficult and only someone with some ability and understanding of how to do it, can do it on a regular basis.

 

Back the manager, for better - and yes sometimes for worse, but you have to back your appointed manager.

[Norbert Colon 0]

Tell me Renton, as you deny disagreeing with me that it would be very difficult to replace the Halls and Shepherd with someone who would do so well, which ought to be so easy because you think they were such fuckwits, how long do you think it will be before it happens ?

 

In fact, as mancmag wants to have a debate on this issue, why not debate it with him/her ? I'll abstain from that one though, because I think it will be very difficult and might take years, but I've always said that.

 

I deny endorsing Ashley at any time or saying it was impossible for us to be worse run than under Shepherd, just for the record. I did advocate a change in ownership as I think the time with Shepherd had simply run its course. He had made too many disastrous managerial appointments and didn't have the financial backing to get us back to where he once had us in my opinion. I also hugely resent the amount of money he took from the club. I stand by this. Would I want Ashley to take us over in hindsight though - no, I wouldn't.

 

I guess you're asking how long you think it will be before Ashley sells and the new owner gets us in the average top 6 position we had under Shepherd? I haven't got a clue. Could be 5 years, but the pessimist in me thinks never.

I don't think anyones worst nightmare could have thrown up what has happened this season tbf though ashley came in on the billionaire, buy players and pay off debt ticket which i think excited the majority of fans, myself included, and could hardly be blamed for not predicting the shit that was heading for the fan.

Do i think he is a worse chairman than shepherd? yes because its a results business and regression is the only product of ashleys reign

[Renton 22415]

Leazes man, your view is based solely on the fact that it's not Shepherd. Anyone new would have received your bile, I would also suggest your view is yet to be vindicated, this year is marginally worse at this time than Shepherds later time.

 

 

As for the Halls and the Shepherds, yes they gave us the best years I've ever seen, but the good years came to an end under Shepherds stewardship, we are purely where we are because of him, as evidenced over the last few years. How quickly we turn around (or don't) is the measure of the current regime.

 

And as for your Gordon Lee comment the manager at the time of my first attended game was Joe Harvey

 

Got to say I don't agree with all this. Shepherd didn't sack Allardyce, replace him with Keegan, inflict Wise and Llambias on us, constructively dismiss Keegan, and appoint Joe Fucking Kinnear as permanent manager. If we go down this year the blame is squarely on Ashley's shoulders.

 

From one corrupt fat bastard to another this club. Makes me sick.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

You clearly 'couldnt give a fuck' what I think then. Aye righto.

 

Started spouting shit similar to this the last time you flounced off vowing never to return. Grow up man you're in your 50's ffs.

 

nah, just convinced of my opinions, which are factually based by the way. "Debate" them as much as you like, but you have spouted bollocks and are still doiing it.

 

Positives of being relegated ? What a joke.

 

 

 

I wouldnt waste a moment debating your opinions. I havent either as is clearly evident. You started banging on about Shepherd again (shock horror) and I didnt even think to respond.

 

which is the best idea, as the successors to the Halls and Shepherd have proceeded to make a right old cack handed job of it, despite you and others thinking it wasn't possible.

 

Leazes your position is bollocks man, you would have slagged whoever took over from your pal Shepherd , the current incumbent does appear less than competent BUT the fact is, we're still in the tailspin your mate put us in, and I doubt very much we'd be better off if Shepherd, or anyone else for that matter, was running the show.

 

such daft comments let you down. I stated my view, which was fully vindicated. I partly expected some people to blame the Halls and Shepherd for the position we are in, scorning the approach which gave you regular european football, champions league football, a completely transformed and full to capacity stadium and a couple of FA Cup Finals. Why don't you go the whole hog and blame Gordon Lee [if you have any idea who he was].

 

Leazes man, your view is based solely on the fact that it's not Shepherd . Anyone new would have received your bile, I would also suggest your view is yet to be vindicated, this year is marginally worse at this time than Shepherds later time.

 

 

As for the Halls and the Shepherds, yes they gave us the best years I've ever seen, but the good years came to an end under Shepherds stewardship, we are purely where we are because of him, as evidenced over the last few years. How quickly we turn around (or don't) is the measure of the current regime.

 

And as for your Gordon Lee comment the manager at the time of my first attended game was Joe Harvey

 

your supposition is wrong, you are saying it and it has no foundation. I don't give a shit who the owner is, the Halls and Shepherd delivered. Whether you like it or not, they did, and they are the only board in 50 years who delivered anything remotedly near what NUFC should deliver in terms of league positions and european qualifications.

 

I can't for the life of me fathom why you think I'm defending Shepherd as a bloke, considering I also can't agree that he ran the club and hired and fired managers all on his own which makes no sense at all.

 

All I want is a successful club, and the Halls and Shepherd are the only people who have understood how to do it and had the guts to back their managers and attempt it.

[Renton 22415]

Tell me Renton, as you deny disagreeing with me that it would be very difficult to replace the Halls and Shepherd with someone who would do so well, which ought to be so easy because you think they were such fuckwits, how long do you think it will be before it happens ?

 

In fact, as mancmag wants to have a debate on this issue, why not debate it with him/her ? I'll abstain from that one though, because I think it will be very difficult and might take years, but I've always said that.

 

I deny endorsing Ashley at any time or saying it was impossible for us to be worse run than under Shepherd, just for the record. I did advocate a change in ownership as I think the time with Shepherd had simply run its course. He had made too many disastrous managerial appointments and didn't have the financial backing to get us back to where he once had us in my opinion. I also hugely resent the amount of money he took from the club. I stand by this. Would I want Ashley to take us over in hindsight though - no, I wouldn't.

 

I guess you're asking how long you think it will be before Ashley sells and the new owner gets us in the average top 6 position we had under Shepherd? I haven't got a clue. Could be 5 years, but the pessimist in me thinks never.

 

the next owner might not be as good/successful as the Halls and Shepherd either. Is this something else you fail to think is possible ?

 

Why are you so flippant about finishing in top 6 positions ? Do you seriously think it is so easy ?

 

Without being funny [well Ok I'm deservedly taking the piss] someone with the brain that you have should realise its quite difficult and only someone with some ability and understanding of how to do it, can do it on a regular basis.

 

Back the manager, for better - and yes sometimes for worse, but you have to back your appointed manager.

 

Everything is possible Leazes, stop misrepresenting me. And I wasn't being flippant about an average top 6 position, unfortunately though this was history, I just don't believe Shepherd had the finances or ability to compete in an ever-changing football world. You disagree, fine. Not all ownership changes are negative to the club after all. Our nearest comparative club 3 years ago was probably Villa, look at them now. (Btw, I seem to remember you were sceptical about Martin O'Neill at the time, where as I would have gone all out to get him, but that's another story).

 

I can't accept it was a good idea to back Souness in the way he did either. It would have been better to see what Souness was capable of with an already good squad before bailing him out with tens of millions of pounds. Anyway, thats by the by, appointing Souness was so utterly cretinous it should have ended Shepherd's tenure then and there.

[LeazesMag 0]

Tell me Renton, as you deny disagreeing with me that it would be very difficult to replace the Halls and Shepherd with someone who would do so well, which ought to be so easy because you think they were such fuckwits, how long do you think it will be before it happens ?

 

In fact, as mancmag wants to have a debate on this issue, why not debate it with him/her ? I'll abstain from that one though, because I think it will be very difficult and might take years, but I've always said that.

 

I deny endorsing Ashley at any time or saying it was impossible for us to be worse run than under Shepherd, just for the record. I did advocate a change in ownership as I think the time with Shepherd had simply run its course. He had made too many disastrous managerial appointments and didn't have the financial backing to get us back to where he once had us in my opinion. I also hugely resent the amount of money he took from the club. I stand by this. Would I want Ashley to take us over in hindsight though - no, I wouldn't.

 

I guess you're asking how long you think it will be before Ashley sells and the new owner gets us in the average top 6 position we had under Shepherd? I haven't got a clue. Could be 5 years, but the pessimist in me thinks never.

 

the next owner might not be as good/successful as the Halls and Shepherd either. Is this something else you fail to think is possible ?

 

Why are you so flippant about finishing in top 6 positions ? Do you seriously think it is so easy ?

 

Without being funny [well Ok I'm deservedly taking the piss] someone with the brain that you have should realise its quite difficult and only someone with some ability and understanding of how to do it, can do it on a regular basis.

 

Back the manager, for better - and yes sometimes for worse, but you have to back your appointed manager.

 

Everything is possible Leazes, stop misrepresenting me. And I wasn't being flippant about an average top 6 position, unfortunately though this was history, I just don't believe Shepherd had the finances or ability to compete in an ever-changing football world. You disagree, fine. Not all ownership changes are negative to the club after all. Our nearest comparative club 3 years ago was probably Villa, look at them now. (Btw, I seem to remember you were sceptical about Martin O'Neill at the time, where as I would have gone all out to get him, but that's another story).

 

I can't accept it was a good idea to back Souness in the way he did either. It would have been better to see what Souness was capable of with an already good squad before bailing him out with tens of millions of pounds. Anyway, thats by the by, appointing Souness was so utterly cretinous it should have ended Shepherd's tenure then and there.

 

YOU don't accept it was a good idea to back Souness, and neither do I. However, he wasn't YOUR appointment, nor was he mine. The people who appointed him ie THE HALLS AND SHEPHERD, backed THEIR appointment. You do understand this don't you ?

 

As I've had this "debate" with others [which I'm not defending in the slightest, I'll re-iterate the point that they have in fact paid for their bad appointment, but the question now is - is the club in better hands or not ? I personally don't think so. So those who wished change have got it, unfortunately we are worse off, which goes back to where we started. You didn't appreciate what was in fact a good board when you had one, despite their mistakes, and everybody makes mistakes.

 

What will you say and how will history look on it all, if in - say - 15-20 years down the line, we still haven't matched the positions gained by the club under the Halls and Shepherd. Will you still insist they were fuckwits ? How many owners will it take that fail to match them before it is realised that they were in fact badly misrepresented and unappreciated.

 

And I obviously sincerely hope that someone comes along and betters them asap.

[LeazesMag 0]

I also remember Renton - and a few others, Baggy was a prominent one - harped on about this "planning" business........and disagreed with me when I commented on the fact that such a thing didn't guarantee success as they implied....indeed the best "plan" was quite a simple one which entailed nothing more than appointing a good manager, backing him and buying the quality players WHEN THEY WERE AVAILABLE. Still disagree with this Renton ?

Edited March 6, 2009 by LeazesMag

[Tom 14021]

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

 

Post of the year

[Asprilla 96]

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

IT'S ONLY THE INTERNET

:boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:

 

Post of the year :icon_lol:

 

[Ketsbaia 0]

A post that gay had to be Meenzer.

[duo 0]

If we go down there are no "positives", only negatives of varying degrees of disastrousness.

Too right. I can't believe anyone would think otherwise. It'd set the club back years; we heavily depend on income from TV, Gate Receipts and Sponsors. All off which will be hit hard if we go down. Our squad will also get ripped apart with our better players such as Martins leaving. The Championship is also a VERY difficult league to get out of, there are some good teams playing there.

 

Make no mistake about it if we go down it will be a disaster. Not least because we'll be stuck with Ashley as we'll have no hope of a buyout. I have a feeling there are a couple of people in the wings just waiting to see what happens to the club. As despite all the upheaval, we're still an attractive proposition to a potential buyer as most importantly the TV money is still there.

Edited March 7, 2009 by duo

[Fop 1]

If we go down there are no "positives", only negatives of varying degrees of disastrousness.

Too right. I can't believe anyone would think otherwise. It'd set the club back years; we heavily depend on income from TV, Gate Receipts and Sponsors. All off which will be hit hard if we go down. Our squad will also get ripped apart with our better players such as Martins leaving. The Championship is also a VERY difficult league to get out of, there are some good teams playing there.

 

Make no mistake about it if we go down it will be a disaster. Not least because we'll be stuck with Ashley as we'll have no hope of a buyout. I have a feeling there are a couple of people in the wings just waiting to see what happens to the club. As despite all the upheaval, we're still an attractive proposition to a potential buyer as most importantly the TV money is still there.

 

Aye, I think it'll take vision and commitment (and an end to suicidal and stupid decisions) to get us back out. The way we have been run this last year I think it's quite possible we'd be trying to get into the Championship before long.

 

 

But frankly even with money and vision (and sense) behind us, we're not going to come back from relegation anything like we are now, never mind how we came into the Premiership in the first place, times have changed.

[Renton 22415]

Tell me Renton, as you deny disagreeing with me that it would be very difficult to replace the Halls and Shepherd with someone who would do so well, which ought to be so easy because you think they were such fuckwits, how long do you think it will be before it happens ?

 

In fact, as mancmag wants to have a debate on this issue, why not debate it with him/her ? I'll abstain from that one though, because I think it will be very difficult and might take years, but I've always said that.

 

I deny endorsing Ashley at any time or saying it was impossible for us to be worse run than under Shepherd, just for the record. I did advocate a change in ownership as I think the time with Shepherd had simply run its course. He had made too many disastrous managerial appointments and didn't have the financial backing to get us back to where he once had us in my opinion. I also hugely resent the amount of money he took from the club. I stand by this. Would I want Ashley to take us over in hindsight though - no, I wouldn't.

 

I guess you're asking how long you think it will be before Ashley sells and the new owner gets us in the average top 6 position we had under Shepherd? I haven't got a clue. Could be 5 years, but the pessimist in me thinks never.

 

the next owner might not be as good/successful as the Halls and Shepherd either. Is this something else you fail to think is possible ?

 

Why are you so flippant about finishing in top 6 positions ? Do you seriously think it is so easy ?

 

Without being funny [well Ok I'm deservedly taking the piss] someone with the brain that you have should realise its quite difficult and only someone with some ability and understanding of how to do it, can do it on a regular basis.

 

Back the manager, for better - and yes sometimes for worse, but you have to back your appointed manager.

 

Everything is possible Leazes, stop misrepresenting me. And I wasn't being flippant about an average top 6 position, unfortunately though this was history, I just don't believe Shepherd had the finances or ability to compete in an ever-changing football world. You disagree, fine. Not all ownership changes are negative to the club after all. Our nearest comparative club 3 years ago was probably Villa, look at them now. (Btw, I seem to remember you were sceptical about Martin O'Neill at the time, where as I would have gone all out to get him, but that's another story).

 

I can't accept it was a good idea to back Souness in the way he did either. It would have been better to see what Souness was capable of with an already good squad before bailing him out with tens of millions of pounds. Anyway, thats by the by, appointing Souness was so utterly cretinous it should have ended Shepherd's tenure then and there.

 

YOU don't accept it was a good idea to back Souness, and neither do I. However, he wasn't YOUR appointment, nor was he mine. The people who appointed him ie THE HALLS AND SHEPHERD, backed THEIR appointment. You do understand this don't you ?

 

As I've had this "debate" with others [which I'm not defending in the slightest, I'll re-iterate the point that they have in fact paid for their bad appointment, but the question now is - is the club in better hands or not ? I personally don't think so. So those who wished change have got it, unfortunately we are worse off, which goes back to where we started. You didn't appreciate what was in fact a good board when you had one, despite their mistakes, and everybody makes mistakes.

 

What will you say and how will history look on it all, if in - say - 15-20 years down the line, we still haven't matched the positions gained by the club under the Halls and Shepherd. Will you still insist they were fuckwits ? How many owners will it take that fail to match them before it is realised that they were in fact badly misrepresented and unappreciated.

 

And I obviously sincerely hope that someone comes along and betters them asap.

 

'Fuckwits' wouldn't be my description. But imo they were greedy and corrupt. That was the problem, they took from the club, in the case of Shepherd I think it was more than 40 million quid over a decade (this is before the money he got from Ashley), in the case of the odious Douglas Hall it was even more and he contributed fuck all to the club and in fact was probably the main player behind Souness's employment. I seriously despise that silver-spooned cunt, a hundred times more than Shepherd who at least ran the club well in some ways.

 

It couldn't go on, but using your logic you'd want them to stay forever? Serious question then, where do you think we'd be now if they were still here? How would we compete with an ever increasing debt and the Shepherds and Halls both using the club as a huge source of income? Remember we were still struggling and in in 2007 in particular narrowly escaped relegation. Changing ownership was worth a punt imo, trouble is we got out of the frying pan and into the fire.

[Renton 22415]

I also remember Renton - and a few others, Baggy was a prominent one - harped on about this "planning" business........and disagreed with me when I commented on the fact that such a thing didn't guarantee success as they implied....indeed the best "plan" was quite a simple one which entailed nothing more than appointing a good manager, backing him and buying the quality players WHEN THEY WERE AVAILABLE. Still disagree with this Renton ?

 

I never disagreed with that Leazes, I think you've got a a case of mistaken identity, try and prove otherwise. Getting the right manager though is surely the single most important part of a chairman's job. Gullit, Souness, and Roeder were all obviously terrible appointments and I said this at the time without any benefit of hindsight. That's a shocking record from Shepherd and company, and that's before you factor in that Robson was an obvious choice that 99.9% of fans would have also went for, and according to Robson's autobiography, he nearly even fucked that up.

[peasepud 59]

It couldn't go on, but using your logic you'd want them to stay forever? Serious question then, where do you think we'd be now if they were still here? How would we compete with an ever increasing debt and the Shepherds and Halls both using the club as a huge source of income? Remember we were still struggling and in in 2007 in particular narrowly escaped relegation. Changing ownership was worth a punt imo, trouble is we got out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

QFT

 

At the time I argued with you LM that anything was better than Shepherd, however I've already admitted that I was totally wrong. In hindsight no fan could honestly say they would accept MA now.

 

My question would be though, do you think that if hindsight existed, would Shepherd and Hall have sold their stakes to MA and unfortunately I think they still would.

[tinofbeans 91]

of course they would.

[Big Onion 0]

I draw a line under the tenure of the old board. Ashley bought the club as it stood. If there was more debt than he'd bargained for (although it should be noted that Mort is on record saying they did do 'normal due diligence') my take on that is: so what? He's a trader, and has been on the right end of plenty of transactions amounting to far bigger sums than the inherited debt they never stop moaning about. That's business. And how much unknown debt could there have been? Apart from the sponsorship money being spent in advance for the Owen deal, there can't have been much. They would certainly have been aware of the outstanding £57mil or whatever it was on the stadium, and of outstanding payments for players bought previously. I'm personally sick to the back teeth of Ashley & co. crying poverty - why buy it if you can't afford to run it? (It's more a case of not being willing, rather than able, but whatever.)

 

Investment in youth development for the long-term clearly makes sense from both a footballing and a financial point of view, but it's almost entirely pointless if you neglect the first priority, the first team, in the interim. Significant investment in the first team is something Ashley has singularly failed to do, and we're now seeing the folly of that as we're staring relegation in the face. This has absolutely nothing to do with Shepherd or Hall. Ashley has chosen to run the club on the cheap, no-one else. I'd guess that no more than ten or fifteen million invested in players this summer (the left-back Keegan wanted, and a replacement for Milner) would have averted the events of early September. That's no money at all in PL terms. The man simply doesn't understand football, and is trying to make the club fit the model when it should be the other way round.

 

And his chosen personnel, Wise, Llambias and now Kinnear have been a disaster. Wise has no track record in his role, Llambias knows nothing at all about football and Kinnear is a joke appointment. All of them will walk away from this club without a backward glance when their time is up. Two seasons, two relegation battles - at this club, that's sheer incompetence.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Big Onion

[LeazesMag 0]

It couldn't go on, but using your logic you'd want them to stay forever? Serious question then, where do you think we'd be now if they were still here? How would we compete with an ever increasing debt and the Shepherds and Halls both using the club as a huge source of income? Remember we were still struggling and in in 2007 in particular narrowly escaped relegation. Changing ownership was worth a punt imo, trouble is we got out of the frying pan and into the fire.

 

QFT

 

At the time I argued with you LM that anything was better than Shepherd, however I've already admitted that I was totally wrong. In hindsight no fan could honestly say they would accept MA now.

 

My question would be though, do you think that if hindsight existed, would Shepherd and Hall have sold their stakes to MA and unfortunately I think they still would.

 

I don't know where people get the idea that I'm "defending" Shepherd or anyone else. I'm just pointing out that the period of the HALLS AND SHEPHERD were by far the best in over 40 years. People of my age watched this club run like a corner shop, acting like 2nd raters and achieving nothing more than that, semi permanent relegation struggles, promotion campaigns and many years in the old 2nd division, the Halls and Shepherd came along and changed all of that. They delivered. We would all like to do better, who doesn't want to do better, but they delivered.

 

Fact is, people like Renton - and he denies it now - have said that the club was run by shit directors who had "no plan" - and disagreed with me when I said the only "plan" that counts is backing your manager and buying the quality players, and you can't "plan" availability of quality players. This is what they have done to the best of their ability, sometimes you make a bad judgement, but thats football, we haven't done so bad under the Halls and Shepherd, the vast majority of clubs would have killed for what we watched in their years. As would all 20-25,000 Newcastle fans who stuck with the club when it was shite, and this is what I don't understand from longer term supporters ie they fail to appreciate this or alternatively they weren't really long term supporters and were only attracted back to the club by the board/directors who they later slated for letting them down. Ironic and bullshit really.

 

I don't blame either the Halls and Shepherd for taking the money from Ashley, who does ? The Halls had been looking for a buyer for years, I'm not so sure that Shepherd would have sold so readily, but only he knows the truth of that one.

 

I also always said that I would take better directors than the Halls and Shepherd, nobody in their right mind would say otherwise, I just pointed out that it would be very difficult to find better, and their record tells you this. It's not rocket science ie being one of the top clubs in the country means you have one of the best run clubs.

 

I don't know where we would be if they still ran the club. Appointing Allardyce tells you they realised a new direction was needed including a tightening of the belts financially, whats wrong with that ? - until bricks were put into place to make a challenge again, and I've no doubt this would have happened. One thing I can say is that I'm pretty sure they would not have made a profit in the last few transfer windows while watching the club dive further downwards, particularly including the last one as we are now staring relegation in the face. There is absolutely no way that they would have sat back and just allowed that, they would have at least attempted to bring in some decent players and realised the necessity of staying up.

[peasepud 59]

One thing I can say is that I'm pretty sure they would not have made a profit in the last few transfer windows while watching the club dive further downwards, particularly including the last one as we are now staring relegation in the face. There is absolutely no way that they would have sat back and just allowed that, they would have at least attempted to bring in some decent players and realised the necessity of staying up.

 

yup.

[Renton 22415]

Fact is, people like Renton - and he denies it now - have said that the club was run by shit directors who had "no plan" - and disagreed with me when I said the only "plan" that counts is backing your manager and buying the quality players, and you can't "plan" availability of quality players.

 

Leazes, prove that I ever talked about a 'plan'. If you can't then just accept you're talking about somebody else, Baggio most probably. I'm far more inclined to agree with your viewpoint than his as it happens. In fact regarding football matters, we have generally agreed with the exception of the Hall family and Shepherd. What irritates me most is your never-ending repetition of cherry picked 'facts' regarding Shepherd's tenure, do you never get sick of repeating it every second post?

 

I'm also getting sick of your general pettiness and insults, it's a fruitless exercise discussing anything with you as a result. I do however suspect your obvious dislike of me stems from topics on the general chat board rather than anything about football, probably something to do with your old mate HTL, because that's when it started. So if you can't stop misrepresenting me or insulting me, please just don't bother responding. It's easy enough.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Renton

[manc-mag 1]

Fact is, people like Renton - and he denies it now - have said that the club was run by shit directors who had "no plan" - and disagreed with me when I said the only "plan" that counts is backing your manager and buying the quality players, and you can't "plan" availability of quality players.

 

Leazes, prove that I ever talked about a 'plan'. If you can't then just accept you're talking about somebody else, Baggio most probably. I'm far more inclined to agree with your viewpoint than his as it happens. In fact regarding football matters, we have generally agreed with the exception of the Hall family and Shepherd. What irritates me most is your never-ending repetition of cherry picked 'facts' regarding Shepherd's tenure, do you never get sick of repeating it every second post?

 

I'm also getting sick of your general pettiness and insults, it's a fruitless exercise discussing anything with you as a result. I do however suspect your obvious dislike of me stems from topics on the general chat board rather than anything about football, probably something to do with your old mate HTL, because that's when it started. So if you can't stop misrepresenting me or insulting me, please just don't bother responding. It's easy enough.

 

Just on that point, it's pretty clear to most that it's wilfull misrepresentation. This is the problem with 'debating' things with Leazes though - his propensity to simply interpret things in the way he wants to coupled with his obsession in his pursuit of the point; to the extent that even where you're not discussing something you will find him randomly resurrecting an argument and trying to graft it onto the back of some other discussion point.

[Guest alex]

I thought we'd stopped all this shit. Leave it N-O man Leazes ffs. The past is exactly that, the past. And you even said that you thought the old regime had run its course iirc. The new lot are worse but we were in a bit of a state and have been for the last 4-5 years. Of course they did brilliantly at times, no one would argue with that.

[LeazesMag 0]

Fact is, people like Renton - and he denies it now - have said that the club was run by shit directors who had "no plan" - and disagreed with me when I said the only "plan" that counts is backing your manager and buying the quality players, and you can't "plan" availability of quality players.

 

Leazes, prove that I ever talked about a 'plan'. If you can't then just accept you're talking about somebody else, Baggio most probably. I'm far more inclined to agree with your viewpoint than his as it happens. In fact regarding football matters, we have generally agreed with the exception of the Hall family and Shepherd. What irritates me most is your never-ending repetition of cherry picked 'facts' regarding Shepherd's tenure, do you never get sick of repeating it every second post?

 

I'm also getting sick of your general pettiness and insults, it's a fruitless exercise discussing anything with you as a result. I do however suspect your obvious dislike of me stems from topics on the general chat board rather than anything about football, probably something to do with your old mate HTL, because that's when it started. So if you can't stop misrepresenting me or insulting me, please just don't bother responding. It's easy enough.

 

Just on that point, it's pretty clear to most that it's wilfull misrepresentation. This is the problem with 'debating' things with Leazes though - his propensity to simply interpret things in the way he wants to coupled with his obsession in his pursuit of the point; to the extent that even where you're not discussing something you will find him randomly resurrecting an argument and trying to graft it onto the back of some other discussion point.

 

quite ironic, as you've just had a go at me for being a "poor debater", especially when you're abstaining from "debating" the valid point I'm making about our old regime, but thats because you haven't got a case and you know it.

[LeazesMag 0]

I thought we'd stopped all this shit. Leave it N-O man Leazes ffs. The past is exactly that, the past. And you even said that you thought the old regime had run its course iirc. The new lot are worse but we were in a bit of a state and have been for the last 4-5 years. Of course they did brilliantly at times, no one would argue with that.

 

Well, I did as well Alex, until mancmag came along and started off with the smartarse comments. What a shame the daft fucker is wrong though. I'm quite happy to "debate" things with him as long as he likes, but no doubt when I rip him up for bogpaper he'll say he's not "debating" but "arguing".

 

Fuckin sad. And all because I said I agree with FOP, which I do.