Park Life 71 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Not looking as cut and dried as a few months ago eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Still think Jonas is the better player mind. Although Milner would arguably be more effective in our current side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Would rather have both, Milner on the right and Jonas on the left. Was never Milners biggest fan but he would walk into our current midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay 10 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas all the way. Has he had a shot on target yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7209 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Did Milner have many shots on target? Half of Jonas' game is about tracking back and saving goals which a lot of people forget about. Also, his 70 yard runs up the wing take the pressure of our defence and enable them to re-organise. He gets to much grief for his final balls too. Yes some of them end up out of play which isnt good enough but a lot also end up in the box and a decent striker would time his run to get onto them. We have Shola who stands on the 6 yard line and expects the ball to be placed on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The two of them come no where near the quality Solano brought to the team btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) While the movement upfront is poor, the amount of times he gives the ball in an advanced position deserves the stick it gets. If the ball isn't on, don't keep giving it away. And just try the odd lofted cross if that's a better chance of creating a goal. I agree with you in general but I sometimes think when someone likes a player, they blame others for what is (to my mind) a blatant fault of the player himself. Edit: For KD. Edited February 26, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The two of them come no where near the quality Solano brought to the team btw... They're both essentially grafters. I'd say both give you more away from home though tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas on the left is better than Milner playing anywhere. Jonas' final ball is shocking but to be fair so was JM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I always felt Milner was better through the middle than on the wing, his corner taking was shocking, his free kicks just as bad and rarely scored, Gutierrez brings more in my opinion, his work ethic is better, he tracks back, and whilst he might not be the best crosser of the ball, I think his game is more about through balls, his assist statistics haven't been helped by the loss of Owen and Martins, as the loons who have replaced them struggle to read the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Jay Sea 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 In this day and age it is a disgrace that and winger, anywhere in the world, at any level, never mind the Premiership, is incapable of crossing a decent ball into the box at least half a dozen times during a game. No bullshit. It's a fcking disgrace.....I remember the likes of Solano, Ginola or even Keith Gillespie for that matter being able to cross ball from the bye-line (or anywhere else for that matter) with consumate easy, even when they were having shIt games. What the fck are they doing in training? It's basic requirement surely....crossing a fcking football. It's not rocket science. If you are not crossing the ball because you can't beat your man then clearly you are shit. Infact you don't need to beat your man to cross the ball.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas for me, seeing as Jonas isn't scoring though, I'm sure we could have done with Milners usual 3-4 goals at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7209 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 In this day and age it is a disgrace that and winger, anywhere in the world, at any level, never mind the Premiership, is incapable of crossing a decent ball into the box at least half a dozen times during a game. No bullshit. It's a fcking disgrace.....I remember the likes of Solano, Ginola or even Keith Gillespie for that matter being able to cross ball from the bye-line (or anywhere else for that matter) with consumate easy, even when they were having shIt games. What the fck are they doing in training? It's basic requirement surely....crossing a fcking football. It's not rocket science. If you are not crossing the ball because you can't beat your man then clearly you are shit. Infact you don't need to beat your man to cross the ball.......... Agree It does kind of go unoticed too. I went to see CLS play last week and the winger consistently put the ball in the box time and time again. And he trains once a week. Its beggars belief that men who do this for a living can put crosses out for goal kicks and throw ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas. Ryan Giggs' crossing in his early days was atrocious at times yet he came good. Maybe Jonas is just a late developer of a decent cross I hope that with a better, mobile, strikeforce his through balls will off-set his attempted passing at the moment. Quite when we'll see a better, mobile, strikeforce remains to be seen though. Maybe not for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Maybe it's just me but Milner seemed to waste more good crossing oppertunities than Jonas. While I agee Jonas's crossing isn't anywhere near great, I can't remember many occassion where I've been really pissed off with his poor crosses because I've never seen anyone in good positions to get on the end of them anyway. Jonas's crossing is of course being hampered by being played on the left where he is always either on his wrong foot or having to cut back inside. I think it was better in his earlier games on the right and I see no sense in playing Duff or Lovenkrands on the right with Jonas on the left. Milner also lacks the pace to get away from the man when he has beaten him which is something Jonas can do and in general I think Jonas's pace adds more to the team than Milners trotting. Milners shooting while a bit hit and miss is still much better than Jonas's and it seems obvious to me that Jonas has no faith in himself in that area (of course you only had to look at Jonas's record before he arrived to see he was never going to be a big scorer). Overall I still much prefer Jonas. Maybe it's because I was always disapointed with Milner from the start or maybe it's because Jonas is the only player who's seemed capable of lighting up what has been a very dark season for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Jonas. Ryan Giggs' crossing in his early days was atrocious at times yet he came good. Maybe Jonas is just a late developer of a decent cross I hope that with a better, mobile, strikeforce his through balls will off-set his attempted passing at the moment. Quite when we'll see a better, mobile, strikeforce remains to be seen though. Maybe not for a few years. Earlier on in the season with Martins and/or Owen ahead of him he always looked much more capable of producing a good pass to put someone through or at least in space in a decent position. I do think the lack of mobility up front recently would hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 I'm always suspicious of 'wingers' who are over keen to track back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 In this day and age it is a disgrace that and winger, anywhere in the world, at any level, never mind the Premiership, is incapable of crossing a decent ball into the box at least half a dozen times during a game. No bullshit. It's a fcking disgrace.....I remember the likes of Solano, Ginola or even Keith Gillespie for that matter being able to cross ball from the bye-line (or anywhere else for that matter) with consumate easy, even when they were having shIt games. What the fck are they doing in training? It's basic requirement surely....crossing a fcking football. It's not rocket science. If you are not crossing the ball because you can't beat your man then clearly you are shit. Infact you don't need to beat your man to cross the ball.......... If you can't beat a man are you really a winger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 91 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 steve stone parky? never beat anyone for pace or skill. put in good crosses though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 steve stone parky? never beat anyone for pace or skill. put in good crosses though. Not really a winger because of that imo. Same goes for Solano. More of right-sided midfielder / old-style 'right-half'. Beckham's the same. Very few true 'wingers' knocking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinofbeans 91 Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 fair do's. nobby was never a winger. what about robert. he often used to struggle getting past players using just skill, flair, whatever you call it.... but when he was in space he was lethal. i guess the ultimate in useless wingers we had would be franz carr. fast as f**k, but often with little end product! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 fair do's. nobby was never a winger. what about robert. he often used to struggle getting past players using just skill, flair, whatever you call it.... but when he was in space he was lethal. i guess the ultimate in useless wingers we had would be franz carr. fast as f**k, but often with little end product! I think Robert seemed to lose a bit of zip in his time here. He was a classic winger when he first arrived but seemed to lose that ability to beat a man. I think to play the position in the old fashioned way is so difficult in the modern game. You need a great first touch and a turn of pace plus a bag of tricks. And, like you say, all that's no good if you can't deliver the ball when you get to the byline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) steve stone parky? never beat anyone for pace or skill. put in good crosses though. Not really a winger because of that imo. Same goes for Solano. More of right-sided midfielder / old-style 'right-half'. Beckham's the same. Very few true 'wingers' knocking about. That would be my thoughts on it. If you're playing a core 4 def with 2 reigned in DM's (ala Mourinho), you need 2 creatives and they need to be able to feed the attack. Whether they are wingers or through the middle. Generally speaking it is better for the poorer side to stay compact in the middle and make the better side go around you. Why we lose a lot of games is that we don't have two good CM's with defensive/combative/engine type players. Teams go straight through our middle. With Mourinho normally one def ie Cole can ocassionally maraud if everything else is in place, if you look at Benitez, there is no marauding till the last 10-15min and only if they really have to and are chasing the game or the 3 points. If like us the core has no creativity (the middle) than we must have wingers who can really be wingers or at least one. KK saw immediately we were missing all these things and actually converted Owen into a king of withdrawn forward/playmaker. An intelligent roaming forward is as dangerous as any striker cause he is often picked up late or no one is sure who is marking him. I can often tell if managers have a clue by what the forwards are doing when the ball inches up through the middle of the park. Mourinho got away with a lot of shortcuts playing off Drogba who for a while was world class, but during his time the other two forwards would immediately get up near him, but none of the full backs would go up unless Mikel and Essien had locked down the middle against the counter. Edited February 26, 2009 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I suppose you can trace the death of the winger as an effective force in English football back to Alf Ramsay and '66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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