Hillsborough

[Craig 6682]

Arrogant bastards......

 

The Hillsborough Justice Campaign has refused a donation of £1,000 from comedian Alan Davies. The Arsenal fan had criticised Liverpool's refusal to play on the anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster.

 

Full Story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2127741/Alan-Davies-donation-refused-Hillsborough-charity.html

[Gemmill 44853]

First time a scouser has ever knocked back free cash.

[Andrew 4748]

Arrogant bastards......

 

The Hillsborough Justice Campaign has refused a donation of £1,000 from comedian Alan Davies. The Arsenal fan had criticised Liverpool's refusal to play on the anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster.

 

Full Story: http://www.dailymail...gh-charity.html

 

its the "its too sad a memory" justification too

 

at this point Id pretty sure the only person working at the club who was there would be dalglish, certainly most of the support wouldn't have been, a lot of it too young to remember it actually happening

 

who is it too sad for that the team cant actually play?

[Craig 6682]

Alan Davies' delivery was perhaps enciting, but the point is making is spot on. Man Utd welome playing on February 6th to celebrate the lives of those lost in Munich. No other club out there would be this arrogant.

 

Yes it was a tragic disaster and yes, there are a lot of unknowns and questions that need to be answered by those in authority but refusing to play on a date in the calendar is far, far too much.

[Gemmill 44853]

I often wonder what they'll do if they ever get the 'justice' they're after. It cannot be healthy for the families to have this grief factory preventing them from moving on.

[Craig 6682]

I asked the missus that (seeing as she lost one of her best mates on that day) and couldn't really answer it. It literally has become part of their ritual, their way of life hasn't it?

 

Fact is, many of those answerable are now either dead themselves or not too far off it.

[Andrew 4748]

I'm not old enough to remember them winning things regularly, this whole massive grief thing is liverpools entire identity to me, along with the twats in the pundit seats who represent them.

 

theyd actually be quite a boring club without it

[The Fish 10856]

Alan Davies' delivery was perhaps enciting, but the point is making is spot on. Man Utd welome playing on February 6th to celebrate the lives of those lost in Munich. No other club out there would be this arrogant.

 

Yes it was a tragic disaster and yes, there are a lot of unknowns and questions that need to be answered by those in authority but refusing to play on a date in the calendar is far, far too much.

John Bishop tweeted earlier that he thinks the ignorant jokes will continue until the truth comes out. I'm sorry but that's so naive. Jokes aren't going to stop as long as they wail and gnash their teeth about it. If "the truth" comes out, it won't be accepted as enough, or there'll be demands for reparations, there'll be further protests and moronic flailing and wailing.

 

Slave traders should really want to get history as far behind them as possible

[PaddockLad 17252]

We'll find out if the families are justified in their "JFT96" campaign when the Hillsborough Independant Panel reports later this year, or more probably when its findings are leaked to the press beforehand.

 

If the the then government and SYP are found to have been covering things up, then I'd say fair play to them. If a member of your family or one of your mates had been onvolved you'd want to know what happened. The inquests into the July bombings let relatives ask those in charge of different departments involved questions about what went on. The inquest into Hillsborough refused to hear evidence about anything that happened after 3-19pm (I think?).Thats a huge difference in attitude. Obviously the July inquest was a first, and Hillsborough was twenty years before when things of this nature were done very differently, but the relatives will have been asking themselves similar questions I reckon and I don't think theyve been fully answered.

 

Thing is, if theres nothing in the files theyll say that the evidence has been got rid of, and I think I read an article in the Mirror in which scouser Brian Reade already alludes to this. Dont know how I'd feel in the families' shoes really, other than a strong desire to be told the truth.

 

The hangers on and glory hunters theyve picked up over the years should shut the fuck up about it. The families have a right to be heard and Lfc fans who were there and followed the club at the time to an extent too. But its got nowt to do with a 40 year old bloke I know who wouldnt have been able to point to Liverpool on a map in 89 but who now cadges the odd away ticket. I've been to Anfield more times than that fucker.

[bobbyshinton 59]

Sorry I hate the Scouse bastards but these are still the sons, bothers, daughters siters and brothers of those that died in a tragedy. They have the right to grieve and remember and yes it is going to be upsetting. What the fuck difference does playing on another day make to those (us) not involved.

 

Ask the people who build make shift shrines at the side of roads if they will remember the death and date of a loved one.

 

Like I say hate the bastards but

[Craig 6682]

We'll find out if the families are justified in their "JFT96" campaign when the Hillsborough Independant Panel reports later this year, or more probably when its findings are leaked to the press beforehand.

 

It'll be massively watered down whatever comes out - it won't be the full story and it certainly won't be enough to stop the campaigners wanting more. Some of them will not stop until Duckenfield is behind bars which I cannot see happening.

 

Whether their demands are justifiable is very much open for debate.

 

Best thing that can happen is for the findings to be leaked. The government were apparently absolutely fuming after the leak a few weeks back. That in itself suggests the findings may well be sanitised.

[Happy Face 29]

Alan Davies' delivery was perhaps enciting, but the point is making is spot on. Man Utd welome playing on February 6th to celebrate the lives of those lost in Munich. No other club out there would be this arrogant.

 

Yes it was a tragic disaster and yes, there are a lot of unknowns and questions that need to be answered by those in authority but refusing to play on a date in the calendar is far, far too much.

 

The memorial of the war in which millions died is fine to play on, just whack a minutes silence in there.

 

I don't like to quantify grief, but they need to get a fucking grip. Why don't they just refuse to play in the cup?

 

Has this always been the case btw? Did they take the decision straight after the event?

[Guest CabayeAye]

Sorry I hate the Scouse bastards but these are still the sons, bothers, daughters siters and brothers of those that died in a tragedy. They have the right to grieve and remember and yes it is going to be upsetting. What the fuck difference does playing on another day make to those (us) not involved.

 

Ask the people who build make shift shrines at the side of roads if they will remember the death and date of a loved one.

 

Like I say hate the bastards but

 

What difference does it make by not playing on that day? None. It won't bring anyone back and it won't change the lives of those affected.

 

I'm sorry, but the world isn't going to change because of one football club. They overestimate their importance to the rest of the world hugely.

[ADP 0]

Alan Davies' delivery was perhaps enciting, but the point is making is spot on. Man Utd welome playing on February 6th to celebrate the lives of those lost in Munich. No other club out there would be this arrogant.

 

Yes it was a tragic disaster and yes, there are a lot of unknowns and questions that need to be answered by those in authority but refusing to play on a date in the calendar is far, far too much.

If "the truth" comes out, it won't be accepted as enough, or there'll be demands for reparations, there'll be further protests and moronic flailing and wailing.

 

 

 

Agreed, but such is the nature of communal grief. Prolonged mourning is unhealthy at best, and at worst painful self-destruction. I cant imagine how those relatives must feel, they talk of it as if it were murder, rather than an tragic accident. However, as the cliche goes nothing will bring them back. I'd like to hope that once "the truth" does come out, they can turn the anniversary into a celebration of the lives of the dead. However, they have fetishized it for so long now (which, isn't necessarily their fault) that I cant see that happening while the relatives of those who lost their lives are still living. It appears to be part of, or one of the primary conditioners of, the Liverpool FC victim complex for a lot of their half-arsed fans.... I don't mean that in a harsh way. What I mean is that its become so deeply ingrained in LFC that sits almost like a permanent fixture of their trophy cabinet, as a remnant of the days when they had an amazing team.

I do hope that the families of those who died can eventually 'let it go', and realise that doing so isn't conceding defeat. Rather, accepting that what happened is so fucked up that it cannot be equalised by a dramatically prolonged (and correspondingly fucked up) period of mourning.

Edited April 11, 2012 by ADP

[Guest CabayeAye]

I think after all these years, the 'not our fault' culture that has infected Merseyside needs to subside, and the club just needs to accept that it was a tragic accident, and nothing more.

 

After all, it's not like the nasty policemen went into the crown and started murdering people left right and centre. It was caused by l*verpool fans trying to rush the gates without tickets. What do the club want?

 

This behaviour is just not fair on the families of those tragic dead. For their sake, the club just needs to close to book on this chapter and move on. And closing the book doesn't involve trying to blame everyone else for what the sc*users did.

[Craig 6682]

I don't like to quantify grief, but they need to get a f*cking grip. Why don't they just refuse to play in the cup?

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

IMO the years that had passed had taken the feeling behind it to a simmer. All football fans accepted that what happened that day was tragic and the authorities failed them but life was going on.

 

Then the 20 year anniversary came around, pricked to concious of Andy Burnham who started the ball rolling for the papers to be released which the Tories kept on with when they got in power. It ramped up 10-fold when Dalglish was back at the helm.

 

I don't know what they expect to come of it all.

[PaddockLad 17252]

I think after all these years, the 'not our fault' culture that has infected Merseyside needs to subside, and the club just needs to accept that it was a tragic accident, and nothing more.

 

After all, it's not like the nasty policemen went into the crown and started murdering people left right and centre. It was caused by l*verpool fans trying to rush the gates without tickets. What do the club want?

 

This behaviour is just not fair on the families of those tragic dead. For their sake, the club just needs to close to book on this chapter and move on. And closing the book doesn't involve trying to blame everyone else for what the sc*users did.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report says that wasn't the case. And thats pretty much all we have to go on eveidence wise, regardless of what somebody has leaked to the press.

[Andrew 4748]

I don't like to quantify grief, but they need to get a f*cking grip. Why don't they just refuse to play in the cup?

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

IMO the years that had passed had taken the feeling behind it to a simmer. All football fans accepted that what happened that day was tragic and the authorities failed them but life was going on.

 

Then the 20 year anniversary came around, pricked to concious of Andy Burnham who started the ball rolling for the papers to be released which the Tories kept on with when they got in power. It ramped up 10-fold when Dalglish was back at the helm.

 

I don't know what they expect to come of it all.

 

some form of necromancy

[Craig 6682]

I think after all these years, the 'not our fault' culture that has infected Merseyside needs to subside, and the club just needs to accept that it was a tragic accident, and nothing more.

 

After all, it's not like the nasty policemen went into the crown and started murdering people left right and centre. It was caused by l*verpool fans trying to rush the gates without tickets. What do the club want?

 

This behaviour is just not fair on the families of those tragic dead. For their sake, the club just needs to close to book on this chapter and move on. And closing the book doesn't involve trying to blame everyone else for what the sc*users did.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the Taylor Report says that wasn't the case. And thats pretty much all we have to go on eveidence wise, regardless of what somebody has leaked to the press.

 

Aye CabayeAye, you'd do well to read the interim Taylor report. Put the blame squarely at the door of the authorities, not the fans. Liverpool fans that day did nothing that fans of any other club used to do at that time. The reason the fans died was because the procedures in place on the day failed.

[StevenL 0]

Shhh. Don't let evidence get in the way of this little cunts pathetic rants.

[Gemmill 44853]

The fact that they still pride themselves on being able to get into games without tickets to this day suggests that nothing much has been learned though. Not to mention their antics in Athens in 2007.

[luckyluke 2]

When was the last time Liverpool played at Hillsborough? Obviously it used to happen quite regularly with Wednesday in the top flight until their relegation in 2000 (season we beat em 8-0, Shearer's five goals). Have they played there since?

 

Such is the mentality of their fans these days, if/when they next play there I'd fully expect a big hoo har, wreaths laid down, minute's silence etc despite there never being such a fuss made of it (as far as I can recall) when both teams occupied the same division.

[Meenzer 15524]

I'm not old enough to remember them winning things regularly, this whole massive grief thing is liverpools entire identity to me, along with the twats in the pundit seats who represent them.

 

theyd actually be quite a boring club without it

 

See, I think at some level that's actually a part of it. Many of them aren't just grieving for Hillsborough, they're - subconsciously perhaps - also grieving for a time when they were a genuinely big club, a club whose slow decline began not long after the disaster and shows no signs of stopping. Making the Hillsborough anniversary into a big deal every year indirectly reinforces the idea that they're a big deal too.

[Tom 14011]

That's deep Meenzer.

 

Deep.

[Tom 14011]

but probably right.