Hillsborough

[stevietoon 0]

Hillsborough: how stories of disaster police were altered - Twenty years on, the families of the 96 fans who died in the semi-final crush are still fighting to force police to acknowledge that changing officers' statements amounted to a cover-up

David Conn The Guardian

 

In a dusty library at the far end of the Houses of Parliament, among 10 boxes of documents relating to the Hillsborough disaster which were made available by the South Yorkshire police following a government order some years ago, is a statement from a police constable on duty that day.

On the front page is a handwritten instruction from a more senior officer. "Last two pages require amending," it notes. "These are his own feelings. He also states that PCs were sat down crying when the fans were carrying the dead and injured. This shows they were organised and we were not. Have [the PC] rewrite the last two pages excluding points mentioned."

 

As they prepare to mark Wednesday's 20th anniversary of the 1989 FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest, the families of the 96 people who died at Hillsborough retain, with their enduring grief, a burning sense of injustice. The discovery that the police vetted junior officers' statements, and amended many to remove criticisms of the police's own operation, seemed to confirm the families' suspicions after Hillsborough: that the police tried to cover up their own culpability for the disaster. The families are still outraged that after Lord Justice Taylor's official inquiry, a lengthy inquest, high court appeals and a judicial "scrutiny", no one has ever been held accountable, and unanswered questions remain.

 

In his report, Taylor concluded firmly that police mismanagement of the crowd had caused the disaster. Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, commanding his first big football match, had agreed to relieve a crush outside the ground by opening an exit gate to allow a crowd of supporters to enter together, rather than singly through the turnstiles. The central pens of the Leppings Lane terrace were full, but no officers were ordered to block the tunnel leading to those pens and direct supporters to the sides, where there was still room. "Failure to give that order," Taylor wrote, "was a blunder of the first magnitude." Taylor criticised South Yorkshire police for refusing to accept that truth. Duckenfield even said originally that supporters forced open the gate; that was condemned as a "disgraceful lie" by Lord Justice Stuart-Smith in his 1998 judicial scrutiny of new Hillsborough evidence. "It is a matter of regret," Taylor wrote, "that ... the South Yorkshire police were not prepared to concede that they were in any respect at fault. The police case was to blame the fans for being late and drunk ... It would have been more seemly and encouraging ... if responsibility had been faced."

 

Yet at the inquest that followed, prominence was given again to police accounts of supporters being drunk and without tickets. The families were appalled by the eventual verdict of accidental death rather than unlawful killing, and felt that the police force principally responsible for so many deaths had behaved, from the day of the disaster, without humanity. It emerged that two police CCTV videos went missing from the locked control room on the night of the disaster - one showing the police opening the gate survived - and that deepened suspicion.

 

It was amid that legacy of betrayal that evidence emerged, nine years later, that senior South Yorkshire police officers had vetted and amended their junior officers' statements, in consultation with the force's solicitors, before presenting them to Taylor and the inquest. Criticisms that senior officers failed to provide leadership on the day, and radio communication was poor, were removed from several statements. Accounts of drunken or misbehaving fans, on the other hand, were almost all left in. The junior justice minister, Maria Eagle, MP for Liverpool Garston, said questions still remained about who was involved with that process and how far it went, and she urged the force to "come clean" and make a genuine apology. "The institutional behaviour of South Yorkshire police was appalling," she said. "I stand by the comments I made in the House of Commons at the time. This was a black propaganda unit, engaged in a conspiracy to cover up."

 

Police documents

 

Eagle complains the documents were "dumped" in the parliamentary library after South Yorkshire police were ordered to disclose them, and she doubts if it is a comprehensive collection. The 10 boxes are in no discernible order; there is no index or explanatory letter, and it is difficult to believe it can be complete: there are no memos between senior officers, or between the police and their solicitors.

 

Many statements have apparently not been amended, or the originals are not there. On the ones which have, there are handwritten notes on the front, setting out sections to be changed. There is a list headed Amended Reports, with 163 officers' names on it, and another, with 248 names on it, with a column noting when the statements were vetted.

 

The police argue they were trying only to cut emotion and opinion out of the officers' raw statements. Stuart-Smith concluded there was no cover-up, because the changes mostly involved removing comment and hearsay, although he did criticise some deletions of fact.

 

Yet the handwritten note on the front of that PC's statement - "This shows they were organised and we were not" - appears to show there was a more sinister agenda, to undermine the fans and exonerate the police.

 

Meredydd Hughes, the current South Yorkshire police chief constable, said the force fully accepted Taylor's findings, including the criticism that the police failed to take responsibility and sought to blame the disaster on supporters. He did not, however, accept that the amending of statements was part of that campaign. "It was not a systematic attempt to hide the truth," he said. Hughes said he would find out whether there were further documents which have not been publicly disclosed, make available any not covered by legal privilege, and issue an apology if appropriate.

 

"We are not about trying to hide things," he said. "We are not the same force that was here in 1989. We exist to protect the public, learn lessons from Hillsborough and put them into practice."

 

Prof Phil Scraton, author of Hillsborough: The Truth, was the first to discover the changing of statements, and he maintains it was a cover-up. "The statements were transformed after a team of officers, from the force under investigation, reviewed and altered them. If cover-up means anything, this was it."

 

The emergence of the changed statements is not the worst lingering injustice the families feel. Many are still profoundly scarred by the inquest process, and crucial decisions made by the coroner, Dr Stefan Popper. He held "mini-inquests" while the director of public prosecutions was considering criminal charges against the police officers in command - no charges were ultimately brought.

 

At the mini-inquests, West Midlands police officers read out summaries of evidence about where and when victims died. Witnesses were not called, let alone cross-examined. Popper then limited the main inquest, which began in Sheffield on 19 November 1990, to events up to 3.15pm on the day of the disaster. He ruled that by then, all the victims had received injuries in the Leppings Lane crush which rapidly caused irreversible brain damage.

 

That line of reasoning was upheld when the families challenged it by judicial review in the high court in 1993. Yet the "mini-inquests," followed by the 3.15 cut-off, meant two huge areas have been closed from full investigation: the response to the disaster by the police, ambulances, fire service and local hospitals, and the individual circumstances of how each victim died.

 

A number of witnesses, never called to the inquest, have since bitterly criticised the emergency response. Anthony Edwards, a paramedic in one of only three ambulances that made it on to the pitch out of 42 called to the ground, described the operation as "chaotic". He said that paramedics could not reach the crush, and the "basic technique" of inserting airways into casualties' mouths was barely administered. Another leading ambulanceman, John Flack, said it was "bedlam".

 

Hillsborough was a scene of horror. Supporters were mostly laid on their backs, rather than in the recovery position, some with clothes covering their faces, even though no qualified person had determined they were dead. There were literally piles of bodies at the Leppings Lane end, and bodies left lying around elsewhere. Only 14 of those who died were taken to hospital, a fact Ann Adlington, solicitor for the Hillsborough Family Support Group, describes as "shocking".

 

In August 2006, Anne Williams, whose 15-year-old son Kevin was killed at Hillsborough, applied to the European court of human rights, arguing that the inquest into her son's death was "insufficient" due to the 3.15 cut-off.

 

Over years of tireless campaigning, Williams tracked down people who had helped Kevin, including Derek Bruder, an off-duty police officer, and a woman special police constable. They had testified that Kevin had signs of life up to 4pm; Bruder felt a pulse, and the SPC said Kevin had opened his eyes and said "Mum".

 

Their statements were changed after visits from the West Midlands police, to suggest there were no signs of life. Both have since emphatically stood by their original statements. Bruder has since complained that his evidence "was not presented in its entirety or in a professional manner" at the mini-inquest, to which he was not called to give evidence in person, and he has emphatically maintained he did feel a pulse. The SPC has also stood by her original statement. Williams sought the opinions of three eminent pathologists, who all disagreed with the diagnosis by the consultant, Dr David Slater, who examined Kevin. Dr Iain West, consultant forensic pathologist at London's Guy's hospital, contested Slater's finding, which had been upheld in the high court, that Kevin had died from traumatic asphyxia. That and crush asphyxia were the causes of death ascribed to all who died at Hillsborough. West said he believed Kevin died from severe neck injuries, and could have been saved had he been treated early enough. There may have been other victims who were recoverable, he said, after 3.15.

 

Applications to the European court have to be made within six months of exhausting the last possible domestic legal means of redress. The judges took that to be Stuart-Smith's "scrutiny", which upheld the coroner's findings in the case of Kevin Williams and rejected all requests to reopen the inquests. On 17 February this year, the ECHR dismissed Williams's case as out of time. Sitting in her home in Chester, surrounded by files and documents, Williams said: "I won't give up, not until the record is put straight. You can't grieve properly, you can't lay your children to rest, until you have established what really happened."

 

Meredydd Hughes acknowledged that the police response to the unfolding disaster was "a picture of terrible confusion, a lack of leadership at critical times". Asked whether he could understand the families' frustration with the 3.15 cut-off, he said: "I understand it, but it is not for the police service to comment on."

 

Margaret Aspinall, vice-chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, whose 18-year-old son James died at Hillsborough, said the 3.15 cut-off was "the biggest issue" for the families. "There are huge, unanswered questions. How many could have survived if they had had proper care, and oxygen? Even now, we want reopened inquests beyond 3.15."

 

The families want answers, too, about the role of a West Midlands police officer, Detective Superintendent Stanley Beechey, whom Popper described as "the second most senior officer at the time of the main inquest".

 

In June and July 1990, Beechey had been in a monitoring room when Duckenfield and other senior officers were interviewed about their roles at Hillsborough. Beechey was given the sealed audio tapes of the interviews and was responsible for presenting them to the inquest. The coroner said publicly that Beechey had "an awful lot to do" with preparing the evidence summaries for the mini-inquests.

 

Beechey was a former head of West Midlands serious crime squad, which was disbanded in August 1989 after a string of collapsed cases, and amid allegations of police malpractice. A complaint about Beechey was made to the then Police Complaints Authority by George Tomkins, who alleged he had been "fitted up" by West Midlands police for an armed robbery he did not commit. Tomkins spent 17 months on remand in Birmingham's Winson Green prison before he was acquitted.

 

The West Midlands chief constable, Geoffrey Dear, moved named West Midlands SCS officers to "non-operational duties". Beechey's transfer was to "studying technical aspects of Hillsborough". Dear said he believed this involved working on fuzzy video footage to enhance its quality. When told Beechey became involved at a senior level, Dear said: "It definitely was not what I had in mind when I transferred him. If I had been told, I would have taken him off the investigation. I wouldn't have had Beechey working on that or any other inquiry. Not because he might necessarily be doing anything wrong, but because it was not appropriate." On 20 June 1990, Beechey was formally interviewed, under caution, about Tomkins's allegations. So, at the same time Beechey had been present at the interviews of senior officers responsible at Hillsborough, he was himself under formal investigation.

 

Detective's involvement

 

Beechey was not disciplined following the PCA inquiry, and returned to operational duties on 30 November 1990. His period on "non-operational duties" had taken in the Hillsborough mini-inquests, the criminal inquiry for the DPP, and the first 11 days of the main inquest.

 

In April 1993, Tomkins took out a private prosecution against Beechey, three other police officers and a DPP lawyer, accusing them of perverting the course of justice. The police officers' cases were committed to the crown court. In 1995 the DPP discontinued the prosecutions. Tomkins took out a civil claim, suing the West Midlands police for malicious prosecution. On 18 March 1996, the force agreed, without admitting any wrongdoing by any officer, to pay Tomkins £40,000 compensation, and £70,000 for his legal costs.

 

Although there is no evidence that Beechey did anything improper in the Hillsborough investigation, Aspinall feels Beechey's involvement is another area of unease. "We want it cleared up," she argues. "What was this police officer doing on the Hillsborough investigation, what position did he occupy, and why, if he was on 'non-operational duties?'"

 

A spokesman for West Midlands police provided a statement: "Det Supt Beechey was a later addition to the team of officers who liaised with the Hillsborough coroner, and his role was of a limited, overseeing nature. There has never been any suggestion that he carried out the support work into Hillsborough in anything other than a rigorous, thorough and professional manner. An unconnected civil action brought against DS Beechey was settled in a separate legal process, the basis of which means we cannot comment further."

 

Hillsborough seems an age away now, a disaster caused by police mismanagement at an unsafe football ground, where the Football Association commissioned a semi-final despite the ground's safety certificate being a decade out of date. In the 20 years since, football grounds have been rebuilt, helped initially by public grants, and the top clubs have made fortunes.

 

Yet for the families of the mostly young people who died, there has been unending grief, and a traumatic legal ordeal leaving them with questions still unanswered.

 

"I don't like to use the word justice," says Aspinall. "I prefer to say that we want the full truth, and accountability. Even now, it would make a difference, alleviate some of the hurt and betrayal we have suffered for 20 years."

 

Unanswered questions

 

 

The cause of the Hillsborough disaster - police mismanagement of the crowd - was established by Lord Justice Taylor in his report published just four months afterwards, in August 1989. Yet 20 years on, key questions remain unanswered about the disaster's aftermath.

 

1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?

 

2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?

 

3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?

 

4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?

 

5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?

 

6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?

 

7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police's Hillsborough documents?

 

8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation

[Craig 6682]

The 'Hillsborough' docu-drama (that Alex alludes to earlier in this thread) is being shown at 9pm on Wednesday night. I urge anyone who wants to get a clear understanding of what took place that day to watch it.

 

As for those who died at Hillsborough, there's a fitting tribute in Steve Wilson's (a Liverpool fan who was there that day) blog on the BBC site, in particular this extract:

 

The game has changed, and some say not completely for the better. But if you are lucky enough to be able to take your children to a match and sit in safety; to be treated with respect by those who police our grounds and to get home again without being crushed or scared, give those 96 a thought.

 

Honour, for a moment, those whose deaths made it happen.

 

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/stevewilson/200...llsborough.html

[Tom_NUFC 0]

I was 10 when Hillsborough happened and can remember the day very well.

 

Newcastle were away to Arsenal, so my Mam took me on the bus to Hartlepool, who were at home to Tranmere and we met up with my Tranmere-supporting aunt and uncle. The first we knew something was up was at half time. My uncle had gone to get a cup of tea and came back with some story about the semi final being delayed and the players had gone off. But we didn't know too much about it. But during the second half people with radios were saying that things were pretty bad and that people had been hurt.

 

My aunt and uncle were staying the night with us and I remember us driving back up to Newcastle listening to Radio 2 and hearing the horrific reports. Then I remember seeing the scenes on the News and Match of the Day that night.

[Happy Face 29]

Accra Sports Stadium Disaster anniversary next month too.

 

Sad to think in England this is still brushed under the carpet while Africa can charge their police with the manslaughter of all 127 people killed.

[Craig 6682]

Time for justice

 

RIP

[Douggy B 0]

Today is not the day for recriminations on either side in this IMO. Just a time for remembrance.

 

Anybody who was around football in the eightees will remember the surges on the terraces, that for me was all part of the fun. You could get swept along for 20-30 mtrs on the old shelf @ WHL when we scored, the aim of the game just to stay on your feet.

 

That day changed everything for me, every surge accompanied by a hint of concern, every large crowd holding a hint of menace.

 

About 6-7 years ago I went to a pre season friendly @ fratton Park when Pompey were in the second tier, which was sold out in the away end. Me and few mates went down there because it was pay on the door. The ticket booths were in a tunnel at the front of Fratton and they had completely underestimated the demand. A real crush ensued and they had to open the gate at the end to let people out. It was proper scary.

 

I am a big supporter of the stand up sit down campaign, terraces were never really the problem, penning people in like animals was. However the behaviour of some fans back then, warranted it. I think trying to look for one factor (or group of people) to blame is foolish anyway because it was a lot more complex than that.

 

RIP the 96.

[ewerk 30598]

They've just announced at work that they're holding a 2 minute silence at 3.06pm in memory of those who died.

 

I thought it a bit strange til I remembered I was in Nottingham, makes a bit more sense now.

[Monkeys Fist 42419]

R.I.P. the 96

[wykikitoon 20129]

Great post Craig

 

However I cant see an extra 14 people causing them problems tbh.

[wykikitoon 20129]

They've just announced at work that they're holding a 2 minute silence at 3.06pm in memory of those who died.

 

I thought it a bit strange til I remembered I was in Nottingham, makes a bit more sense now.

 

Many people seem to forget the Nottingham lot.

 

I hope they do it for the War dead?

[Blackas 0]

The memorial service is on SSN soon.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Blackas

[snakehips 0]

There are people lacking brain cells who will not understand what I'm going to say, and there is a chance that I might not be able to put my feelings across well enough to be fully understood, but does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be a bit of 'let's join in with the remorse' a bit with all of this?

 

The Hillsborough tragedy was exactly that, a tragedy, and one hopes it will never be repeated. And, the people who were directly involved in the events will have the scars for the rest of their lives. And, without doubt, the whole city of Liverpool will have reason to feel great sadness around this time. And, although it goes without saying (I feel I have to, as there will be mongs reading this who will think otherwise) my sympathies are with anyone and everyone connected to the tragedy. However, are just a few folk jumping on the coat tails of the whole thing without the need to do so, regardless with the fact of it being twenty years to the day??

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3892]

Quite ironic that ssn are being all sympathetic with this when they are part of the same media group as the sun.

[Guest alex]

Quite ironic that ssn are being all sympathetic with this when they are part of the same media group as the sun.

Not as ironic as 'Stevieee Geee' having his book serialised in The News of the World though.

[snakehips 0]

Quite ironic that ssn are being all sympathetic with this when they are part of the same media group as the sun.

Not as ironic as 'Stevieee Geee' having his book serialised in The News of the World though.

 

Ferk me!!!!11111 :o :o :o :o I think that deserves another one

 

Is that 100% genuine??

[Guest alex]

Aye. Couldn't believe it at the time. Found a reference to it here which confirms as much:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/i...als/4787795.stm

Sadly a dark side stains Cristiano Ronaldo's game," writes Gerrard in his autobiography, which is being serialised in the News of the World.

Edited April 15, 2009 by alex

[Craig 6682]

Great post Craig

 

However I cant see an extra 14 people causing them problems tbh.

 

It wasn't the numbers, it was the concentration within the central pens. The Leppings Lane terrace had lateral divisions and prevented those within a full pen to move sideways.

 

I read an account earlier of somone who was in pen 3. Said he got into the ground at 2.30 and with the pen already packed, he stood at the back. 15 minutes later he was halfway to the pitch and those who had been in front of him at 2.30 were STILL in front of him!

[Craig 6682]

There are people lacking brain cells who will not understand what I'm going to say, and there is a chance that I might not be able to put my feelings across well enough to be fully understood, but does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be a bit of 'let's join in with the remorse' a bit with all of this?

 

The Hillsborough tragedy was exactly that, a tragedy, and one hopes it will never be repeated. And, the people who were directly involved in the events will have the scars for the rest of their lives. And, without doubt, the whole city of Liverpool will have reason to feel great sadness around this time. And, although it goes without saying (I feel I have to, as there will be mongs reading this who will think otherwise) my sympathies are with anyone and everyone connected to the tragedy. However, are just a few folk jumping on the coat tails of the whole thing without the need to do so, regardless with the fact of it being twenty years to the day??

 

I totally get what you're saying snakey.

 

I've always been affected by it - the thought of what happened has sent shivers down my spine ever since. The lack of accountability has fuelled the feelings over the years. I do believe that if justice had been served, it wouldn't be as big a thing as it is.

 

It's more than just Liverpool though - football itself changed that day. It was heading in a direction where we'd all have been branded as a problem - fans had been contained within cages and then the government wanted everyone to carry an identity card. It's because of what happened on that day that football is the way it is today in my book. The fact that it was Liverpool fans and happened at Hillsborough is inconsequential. It could have happened at any time, to any club in any stadium.

 

With my lass being a Liverpool fan, I have had more visibility to it than I did before. I saw her about an hour ago and she broke down, says she's been doing so all day long and then was profusely apologetic for doing so. Still after all these years it hurts her like hell and she didn't even go.

 

Danny is right - it is a time for rememberance but not just about those who died. We should appreciate the good it did for the game, particualrly making it a safer environment so that the young generations can watch and enjoy the beautiful game.

[Toonpack 9399]

There are people lacking brain cells who will not understand what I'm going to say, and there is a chance that I might not be able to put my feelings across well enough to be fully understood, but does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be a bit of 'let's join in with the remorse' a bit with all of this?

 

The Hillsborough tragedy was exactly that, a tragedy, and one hopes it will never be repeated. And, the people who were directly involved in the events will have the scars for the rest of their lives. And, without doubt, the whole city of Liverpool will have reason to feel great sadness around this time. And, although it goes without saying (I feel I have to, as there will be mongs reading this who will think otherwise) my sympathies are with anyone and everyone connected to the tragedy. However, are just a few folk jumping on the coat tails of the whole thing without the need to do so, regardless with the fact of it being twenty years to the day??

 

I totally get what you're saying snakey.

 

I've always been affected by it - the thought of what happened has sent shivers down my spine ever since. The lack of accountability has fuelled the feelings over the years. I do believe that if justice had been served, it wouldn't be as big a thing as it is.

 

It's more than just Liverpool though - football itself changed that day. It was heading in a direction where we'd all have been branded as a problem - fans had been contained within cages and then the government wanted everyone to carry an identity card. It's because of what happened on that day that football is the way it is today in my book. The fact that it was Liverpool fans and happened at Hillsborough is inconsequential. It could have happened at any time, to any club in any stadium.

With my lass being a Liverpool fan, I have had more visibility to it than I did before. I saw her about an hour ago and she broke down, says she's been doing so all day long and then was profusely apologetic for doing so. Still after all these years it hurts her like hell and she didn't even go.

 

Danny is right - it is a time for rememberance but not just about those who died. We should appreciate the good it did for the game, particualrly making it a safer environment so that the young generations can watch and enjoy the beautiful game.

 

BUt it didn't, it happened to the same club's fans twice !!

[Tom 14011]

Who was the bloke they were heckling and why?

[Sonatine 11374]

Who was the bloke they were heckling and why?

 

Liverpool football fans have barracked the Minister for Culture, Media and Sport at the Hillsborough memorial service at Anfield.

 

More than 25,000 attended the service at the stadium in Liverpool to mark the 20th anniversary of the disaster which left 96 football fans crushed to death.

 

Andy Burnham MP was not listed on the order of service, but he was introduced to the crowd by Trevor Hicks, who lost two daughters at the stadium in Sheffield.

 

When Mr Burnham said the 96 dead will never be forgotten, some fans heckled and the crowd broke into a chant of "Justice for the 96".

 

The feelings among Liverpool fans are still raw and they are upset that nobody has ever been made legally responsible for the disaster.

 

Mr Burnham waited for the singing to fade before continuing his prepared speech, but he had to contend with several more hecklers before returning to his seat.

[Craig 6682]

There are people lacking brain cells who will not understand what I'm going to say, and there is a chance that I might not be able to put my feelings across well enough to be fully understood, but does anyone else get the feeling that there seems to be a bit of 'let's join in with the remorse' a bit with all of this?

 

The Hillsborough tragedy was exactly that, a tragedy, and one hopes it will never be repeated. And, the people who were directly involved in the events will have the scars for the rest of their lives. And, without doubt, the whole city of Liverpool will have reason to feel great sadness around this time. And, although it goes without saying (I feel I have to, as there will be mongs reading this who will think otherwise) my sympathies are with anyone and everyone connected to the tragedy. However, are just a few folk jumping on the coat tails of the whole thing without the need to do so, regardless with the fact of it being twenty years to the day??

 

I totally get what you're saying snakey.

 

I've always been affected by it - the thought of what happened has sent shivers down my spine ever since. The lack of accountability has fuelled the feelings over the years. I do believe that if justice had been served, it wouldn't be as big a thing as it is.

 

It's more than just Liverpool though - football itself changed that day. It was heading in a direction where we'd all have been branded as a problem - fans had been contained within cages and then the government wanted everyone to carry an identity card. It's because of what happened on that day that football is the way it is today in my book. The fact that it was Liverpool fans and happened at Hillsborough is inconsequential. It could have happened at any time, to any club in any stadium.

With my lass being a Liverpool fan, I have had more visibility to it than I did before. I saw her about an hour ago and she broke down, says she's been doing so all day long and then was profusely apologetic for doing so. Still after all these years it hurts her like hell and she didn't even go.

 

Danny is right - it is a time for rememberance but not just about those who died. We should appreciate the good it did for the game, particualrly making it a safer environment so that the young generations can watch and enjoy the beautiful game.

 

BUt it didn't, it happened to the same club's fans twice !!

 

Comparing Heysel & Hillsborough is ridiculous. They're two totally different situations, the only commonality being that the result was the death of football fans within a sporting arena.

 

Whilst blame cannot be taken away from the Liverpool fans entirely, they're not the reason the Hillsborough disaster happened, nor could you genuinely claim that had it been another club it would have been a different outcome.

 

Heysel they were liable for, although the Juve fans weren't entirely blameless. Hillsborough was something else.

[Craig 6682]

Who was the bloke they were heckling and why?

 

Liverpool football fans have barracked the Minister for Culture, Media and Sport at the Hillsborough memorial service at Anfield.

 

More than 25,000 attended the service at the stadium in Liverpool to mark the 20th anniversary of the disaster which left 96 football fans crushed to death.

 

Andy Burnham MP was not listed on the order of service, but he was introduced to the crowd by Trevor Hicks, who lost two daughters at the stadium in Sheffield.

 

When Mr Burnham said the 96 dead will never be forgotten, some fans heckled and the crowd broke into a chant of "Justice for the 96".

 

The feelings among Liverpool fans are still raw and they are upset that nobody has ever been made legally responsible for the disaster.

 

Mr Burnham waited for the singing to fade before continuing his prepared speech, but he had to contend with several more hecklers before returning to his seat.

 

Was about to post the same - they want another public enquiry and being minister for Sport, this is the nearest they were going to get to someone who can make that decision.

 

FWIW, I'm surprised that 'media whore' Gordon Brown wasn't there.

[NJS 4378]

One of Labour's 97 manifesto pledges was a new public inquiry - a few months of wheedling by the police made Straw drop it.

[The Fish 10856]

Who was the bloke they were heckling and why?

 

Liverpool football fans have barracked the Minister for Culture, Media and Sport at the Hillsborough memorial service at Anfield.

 

More than 25,000 attended the service at the stadium in Liverpool to mark the 20th anniversary of the disaster which left 96 football fans crushed to death.

 

Andy Burnham MP was not listed on the order of service, but he was introduced to the crowd by Trevor Hicks, who lost two daughters at the stadium in Sheffield.

 

When Mr Burnham said the 96 dead will never be forgotten, some fans heckled and the crowd broke into a chant of "Justice for the 96".

 

The feelings among Liverpool fans are still raw and they are upset that nobody has ever been made legally responsible for the disaster.

 

Mr Burnham waited for the singing to fade before continuing his prepared speech, but he had to contend with several more hecklers before returning to his seat.

 

Was about to post the same - they want another public enquiry and being minister for Sport, this is the nearest they were going to get to someone who can make that decision.

FWIW, I'm surprised that 'media whore' Gordon Brown wasn't there.

I'm astounded the media-folks working for the politicians let anyone go there. Nobody is going to come out of that with any kind of a media "win".