Hillsborough

[spongebob toonpants 3995]

My brother was there.

 

I sort of saved his life - he'd never been to Hillsborough before so I told him to head for the corner bit as the view was better from there which he did. It took him till about 9pm to find a phone by which time my Mam (and my Dad and me) were sick with worry.

 

The fans weren't blameless but imo that was just the nature of football fans in general - not particularly scousers but anyone who had been to Sheffield in the 80s (or indeed more recently) knows where the blame lies - in the utter bunch of cunts known as the South Yorkshire police force.

 

A small mention also for Graham Kelly who while people were still dying gave an interview whose whole purpose was to deflect blame form the FA - a despicable piece of shit and on my list of people who I think hell existing would almost be worthwhile for.

 

Another mention for Jimmy Hill - the pitch fence zealot - I'm sure he thought incidents like this were a price worth paying to keep a few idiots off the pitch.

 

Final world - anyone who was at WHL in 1987 when we played them in the cup knows how close it was to be us.

 

This echoes my experience exactly - my brother was there(in the stands thank fuck) and I was at WHL which was terrifying.

 

It was the nature of football fans in those days,but Liverpool had so many big games in those days that their fans were more adept at bunking in than anyone else.

[Craig 6682]

Others:

 

 

[Tom 14011]

 

Obvious why they hate the sun then..

[Craig 6682]

It was the nature of football fans in those days,but Liverpool had so many big games in those days that their fans were more adept at bunking in than anyone else.

 

Maybe they were... but on this occassion it wasn't the case. The investigations proved that the were at most only 14 more people in the Leppings Lane end than there should have been and in reality, there was a lot less. The problem was not the number in there but the distribution of the fans once they were through the turnstiles.

 

What has never been widely reported in the press before is how the pens at the Leppings Lane end were managed. For league games they always used to fill a pen up one at a time and only open up additional ones once those were full. The only time they ever deviated from this plan was on 3 occassions - the FA Cup semi finals of 1987, 1988 and 1989. Then, they opened up all pens immediately and allowed fans to 'find their own level'. In 1987 the kick off was delayed to let fans in, in 1988 the tunnel was closed off at 2.50 and in 1989, the authorities did nothing and disaster occurred.

 

There were too many people in the Leppings Lane terrace but not on the ground of forged tickets or free entry. It was because the safety certificate was well out of date and should have been ammended. The figure of 10,100 in the format it was in was ridiculous and totally contravened the 'Green guide' for stadium terracing. It wasn't the Liverpool fans fault that there was overcrowding that day. 99.9% of them had a ticket.

[Craig 6682]

 

Obvious why they hate the sun then..

 

Propaganda from start to finish. I firmly believe the police were behind this story and as Lord Justice Taylor put in his report, not one witness he spoke to backed up the story and those who reported it and those who published it were ill advised to do so.

 

Absolute bullshit it is.

[Craig 6682]

Fast-forward this clip to about 8.30ish and watch the remainder of the video.

 

 

Quite poignant when you consider what was to happen 8 years later. What occurred in 1989 should never have happened and quite worryingly as shown here, had a precendent on the very same terrace!

[Douggy B 0]

I was going to raise this, I know a few at that game and he said they say they have never been so scared at a game.

 

Leppings lane was a death trap.

 

but the problem was not the number of people in there it was the speed they entered the ground forcing people into the middle enclosure.

[Craig 6682]

Are you talking about 1981 or 1989 Danny? If it's 1981 then there were no enclosures - Leppings Lane was one big terrace.

 

The key problem in 1989 was that they failed to shut the tunnel going to the middle pens (like the had done so the previous 2 years) forcing the late entrants to go to the side pens. There's lots of incidentals which could have prevented death (no fences, no pens, not opening the gate etc) but the fundamental reason people were crushed to death was the failure to stop people going in those centre pens.

[Rob W 0]

The point is that ANY place where you cram in thousands of people is an accident waiting to happen - look what happened at Ibrox in the 70's and happens almost every year on the Haj in Saudi; you have to be really well organised for it NOT to happen. And when something goes wrong you can expect a lot of deaths.

 

The newer stadiums, seating, better crowd control all help but it could happen again just about anywhere - someone falls over on a flight of stairs, there is a fire in the bar..............

[Craig 6682]

The point is that ANY place where you cram in thousands of people is an accident waiting to happen - look what happened at Ibrox in the 70's and happens almost every year on the Haj in Saudi; you have to be really well organised for it NOT to happen. And when something goes wrong you can expect a lot of deaths.

 

The newer stadiums, seating, better crowd control all help but it could happen again just about anywhere - someone falls over on a flight of stairs, there is a fire in the bar..............

 

 

Either way Rob, you look at that video from 1981 and the events are eerily similar. They're climbing the fences and having to lay down ont he ground once they were over.

 

Huge fucking warning that was never heeded - more than that, they decided to segregate the terrace into pens making escape even less likely.

[bobbyshinton 59]

Anyone remember the match against Spurs where we were crammed in? that was dodgy.

[Craig 6682]

Anyone remember the match against Spurs where we were crammed in? that was dodgy.

 

FA Cup 5th Round at WHL back in 1987.

 

Too many in one pen - those who tried to get into the next 'empty' pen were set upon by the Met's finest.

 

Shocking!

[Craig 6682]

Our old boss has broken his 20 year silence...

 

Football legend Kenny Dalglish has broken his 20-year silence on the Hillsborough disaster, saying that the kick-off should have been delayed.

 

Ninety-six fans were crushed to death at Sheffield Wednesday's stadium as Liverpool took on Nottingham Forest in an FA Cup semi-final on 15 April 1989.

 

Dalglish, who was manager of Liverpool at the time, said it was something "nobody should forget".

 

He said police and the FA should have considered delaying the match.

 

The crush happened when Liverpool fans who had not got into the ground by the time the game kicked off were allowed into an already-crowded section of terracing at the Leppings Lane end of the ground.

 

Supporters at the front of the terrace were pushed against metal fencing, which at the time was a common feature of English football stadiums to prevent pitch invasions.

 

Many fans tried to escape by climbing over the fence or being pulled up by other supporters in to the upper tier. In addition to the 96 who died, several hundred were injured.

 

The game was stopped after six minutes.

 

Dalglish, who also played for Liverpool for many years, as well as Celtic and Scotland, said: "The easiest thing to do is just to put the kick-off back a bit. That's no problem for anybody.

 

"If the police are talking to the FA and the FA have got to make that call, there wouldn't have been any resentment or disagreement with the people in the dressing room, neither Brian Clough [the Nottingham Forest manager at the time] or ourselves certainly.

 

"It's something that everybody wished had never happened but I think it's also something that nobody should forget."

 

He added: "We made sure somebody with Liverpool connections was at every funeral and I think the families really respected that.

 

"The boys weren't obtrusive in any way, they sat back and let the families get on with the grieving but they were there, their presence was there, but they didn't need to have anybody coming up and telling them how grateful they were to have been there, they were there because they wanted to be there."

 

Dalglish was interviewed for a programme to mark the 20th anniversary of the disaster, the first time he has spoken on camera about the events.

 

 

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7921890.stm

[Guest Danny_WemBley]

Are you talking about 1981 or 1989 Danny? If it's 1981 then there were no enclosures - Leppings Lane was one big terrace.

 

The key problem in 1989 was that they failed to shut the tunnel going to the middle pens (like the had done so the previous 2 years) forcing the late entrants to go to the side pens. There's lots of incidentals which could have prevented death (no fences, no pens, not opening the gate etc) but the fundamental reason people were crushed to death was the failure to stop people going in those centre pens.

 

Definitely 81 because it was before my time but I have heard people talking how there was a big crush that day, probably the lack of enclosures that prevented a disaster like the onr that followed.

[Craig 6682]

The problem was outside the terraces - i.e. the number of turnstiles and the bottle-neck that was the elbow on Leppings Lane where the entrance to the ground was.

 

In hindsight the ground wasn't equipped to deal with a cup semi-final - decent capacity but that was it. Easy to say that now though.

[Albert Kirkey 0]

David Conn's book is worth a look, has an extensive chapter on Hillsborough and how badly the families of those that died were done to in the aftermath.

 

Of course no one in power gives a shit, they were very happy to conclude they were all blameless and sweep it under the carpet.

[peasepud 59]

Dear NUSC

 

Many thanks for your email and apologies for not getting back sooner. Also congratulations on the return of the messiah, I hope he digs you out of the fight at the wrong end of the division.

 

I have attached a recent press release from our Newscentre which I hope gives the details requested. If you require anything further I would be only too willing to assist.

 

Let’s hope that people right across the Country buy the CD. We in our City will never forget the 96.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

Cllr Steve Rotheram

Lord Mayor of Liverpool

 

 

 

A press release from Liverpool City Council’s Newscentre

 

For immediate release Thursday 2nd April 2009

 

Facebook fame for Hillsborough song

 

• Support group set up for a song in honour of those who died at Hillsborough

• Liverpool’s musicians and footballers unite for a moving tribute

 

THOUSANDS of people have joined a web campaign urging people to download a song commemorating the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster.

 

Nearly 20,000 people have signed up to the "Get the Hillsborough Single to number 1" campaign on the Facebook social networking site.

 

The track, which will be available to download from iTunes on Monday (6th April) for just 79 pence, features some of Liverpool’s legendary musicians.

 

It includes John Power of the La’s and Cast fame, Peter Hooton of The Farm, Mick Head of Shack, Nick Kilroe from Echo and the the Bunnymen, James Walsh of Starsailor and Rob Taylor of the Troubadours have joined forces to record a song for the 20th anniversary of the disaster.

 

Former Liverpool FC players joined families of the 96 who died to record the track following a request from Liverpool’s Lord Mayor Councillor Steve Rotheram.

 

The ‘Fields of Anfield Road’ is sung by The Liverpool Collective featuring the Kop Choir. The CD was produced by Ken Nelson who has produced Coldplay and also features tracks from Elvis Costello and Pete Wylie.

 

Councillor Rotheram, who is leading a series of Hillsborough remembrance events, said: “I’m absolutely delighted that the song already has so many supporters even before it is available to download. But it is unsurprising as Hillsborough affected so many lives, not just on Merseyside but across the whole of the UK. I attended the match 20 years ago and the passing years do not diminish the importance and the poignancy of this occasion.

 

“This record, the memorial service at Anfield and all the other Hillsborough remembrance events are a symbol of the fact that we will never forget the 96 young and old Liverpool fans who died.”

 

Peter Hooton said: “There has been an overwhelming response to the song and I hope it raises awareness of the Hillsborough disaster and is a fitting tribute to the 96 and the survivors.”

 

Trevor Hicks of the Hillsborough Family Support group said: “We welcome and fully support the “Fields of Anfield Road” CD and are honoured that it is being produced in commemoration of our loved ones.”

 

Thousands of people are expected to attend a moving memorial at Anfield on April 15th where the Lord Mayor will present the CD to club officials. The song will be played at the ceremony.

 

To access the Facebook causes page visit:

 

http://www.facebook.com/n/?inbox/readme ... G1939fe4G0

 

Or http://apps.facebook.com/causes/240200

 

The download is available from Monday for 79p.

[ImpossiblyDaft 1]

 

Obvious why they hate the sun then..

 

Propaganda from start to finish. I firmly believe the police were behind this story and as Lord Justice Taylor put in his report, not one witness he spoke to backed up the story and those who reported it and those who published it were ill advised to do so.

 

Absolute bullshit it is.

 

While the police deliberately lied to the media, which led to a few articles in proper papers that were critical (though more 'tame') of Liverpool fans that all got retracted, Kelvin MacKenzie deserves plenty of blame for the article - there's a quote fairly recently (couple of years back I think) where he basically refuses to apologise for it and says essentially 'they deserved it'.

[ewerk 30598]

They're releasing a song? Fuck me. Where's the money going to?

[Craig 6682]

 

Obvious why they hate the sun then..

 

Propaganda from start to finish. I firmly believe the police were behind this story and as Lord Justice Taylor put in his report, not one witness he spoke to backed up the story and those who reported it and those who published it were ill advised to do so.

 

Absolute bullshit it is.

 

While the police deliberately lied to the media, which led to a few articles in proper papers that were critical (though more 'tame') of Liverpool fans that all got retracted, Kelvin MacKenzie deserves plenty of blame for the article - there's a quote fairly recently (couple of years back I think) where he basically refuses to apologise for it and says essentially 'they deserved it'.

 

He refused to apologise on the grounds that there wasn't concrete proof that what he printed was wrong (he's right!). Still doesn't make him any less of a wanker though.

 

re: the song - I wonder how many so-called Liverpool fans have downloaded that song illegally? I'm not making a sweeping generalisation of Liverpulians per se, this question could be pitched at any incident when a tribute song is released but surely that would question whether they are true fans.

[Guest alex]

Must admit I find it hard to even watch it now. Makes me sick.

[Gejon 2]

Must admit I find it hard to even watch it now. Makes me sick.

 

Definitely

[Blackas 0]

Even though it happened before I was born, just watching Football Focus there really hit me emotionally.

 

And the fact that not one person was prosecuted for it either.

 

[Rob W 0]

There's a programme on Radio 4 right now - makes you feel awful rehearing that radio commentary......

 

TBF Hillsborough WAS one of the best grounds in the country at the time - you forget just how bad the rest were - I went there a few times but always thought it's main drawbacks were it exact location, stuck in a narrow valley well out of the town centre. there weren't many places to drink around there and people often came up to the ground at the last minute. The police plans were normally based on trying to keep two sets of fans coming in from the same direction so by default the 'Pool fans were channeled into Leppings Lane End from the North

[PaddockLad 17252]

From today's Guardian:

Out of the ashes of Hillsborough, modern football was bornTwenty years ago, 96 fans lost their lives at a match between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest. It was a day that changed British football forever

Comments (13) Digg it

Owen Gibson The Guardian, Monday 13 April 2009 Article history

The tragedy signalled an end to terracing, fences and barriers at grounds. Photograph: PA Photos/PA Archive/PA Photos

 

That English football was transformed for ever by the events of 15 April 1989 is beyond dispute. Whether all the changes that followed were for the better continues to be debated over post-match pints up and down the country, but there remains a firm consensus that the final report of Lord Justice Taylor, published in response to the Hillsborough disaster in January 1990, belatedly dragged the sport into the modern age.

 

It drew an overdue line under a century during which supporters had often been crammed into crumbling, unsafe grounds behind fences topped with spikes. As has been repeatedly noted since, the tragedy was that it took the deaths of 96 men, women and children to bring it about. Some go so far as to say that Taylor saved English football from both itself and from a Tory government that had come to see it as an embarrassing nuisance. The Premier League and the ensuing revolution would not have been possible without it.

 

There were in fact two Taylor reports. The first, the interim report, dealt directly with the tragedy and largely laid the blame on the police and the stadium. It was his second and final report that effectively acted as a blueprint for the future, dealing with issues from stadium safety to hooliganism and Margaret Thatcher's controversial ID card scheme, which he effectively curtailed.

 

"What was extremely positive about Taylor was that he identified and strongly criticised the appalling way the football industry had treated spectators until then," says Malcolm Clarke, chair of the Football Supporters Federation.

 

"We'd been killing football fans for a century, the bodies stacking up every decade," adds Professor Rogan Taylor, head of the Football Research Group at Liverpool University, in reference to earlier disasters at Ibrox, Valley Parade and elsewhere.

 

That changed with Taylor's report, with all teams in the top two divisions required to convert to all-seat stadiums and given £31m a year of public money to do so through the levy on the pools that was channelled into the Football Trust. For a sport that jealously guards its independence, it is worth noting that it was an influx of public money and a government review that forced the game to upgrade its antiquated infrastructure.

 

"The game died and was reborn. Some people might not like the new creature that it has become," says Professor Taylor. "[but] Taylor wrote a future for the game at a time when the government was seeking to consign it to the same dustbin as the miners and anything else that smelled of the smoke–stack industries and flat–capped working classes."

 

Even those who queried the report's insistence on all-seat stadiums, insisting that a safe standing solution could have been found and suspecting that clubs used it as an excuse to raise prices, acknowledge Lord Taylor did football a huge ­service. Hooliganism was drastically reduced, with CCTV and seating making the prospect of large-scale disorder inside grounds recede into history.

 

Transport a fan from 25 years ago into one of today's Premier League grounds and they would be astonished that you could take your seat five minutes before the game, enjoy a clear view for the duration and get out of the ground without the prospect of injury. They would also be astonished at the cost of entry. In his report, Lord Taylor cautioned that fans should not be priced out and suggested a fair ticket price of around £6. Adjusted for inflation, that would be around £14 or £15 today. Instead, £40 and up is the norm.

 

Clubs stopped treating supporters as "terrace fodder" and started treating them as consumers – for good or ill. Last week's Manchester United accounts, which revealed annual turnover had soared to £256m, stated that one of its four main mission statements is to "treat supporters as customers".

 

It is tempting to view Hillsborough as a definitive turning point, but the seeds of the Premier League revolution were arguably sown at Heysel four years earlier, with the subsequent European ban leading the big clubs to start considering a breakaway. And it would have been stillborn without the Football Association's backing – which had nothing to do with Hillsborough and everything to do with football's internecine internal politics.

 

Gazza's tears, Nessun Dorma and the adoption of football shirts as leisure wear played a part, as did the growing middle class respectability for which Nick Hornby's Fever Pitch became convenient shorthand. And if Rupert Murdoch had not been inspired to bet the farm on Premier League football to rescue his then ailing satellite television business, things would have been very different.

 

One of the remarkable things about the transformation was how quickly it happened. It was not long before the first wave of foreign imports were marrying flashes of genius with the traditional passion of the English game to create a formula that would prove popular around the world. The latest wave of overseas owners, globalisation and the Champions League have raised the stakes, and the rewards, still higher. But without Taylor's report and the enforced uplift in standards it precipitated, it is unlikely the story would have evolved in anything like the same way.

 

The changes have not all been positive. "The make-up of crowds has changed," warns Clarke. "People on low incomes and young supporters find themselves priced out. The big danger for the football industry is that the average age of people going to a Premier League game has been steadily increasing."

 

Many children of the Sky era have grown up experiencing football on television and video consoles and now pack into pubs, he argues, standing with a pint and their mates in front of a big screen in the way their fathers once stood on the terraces.

 

Kenny Dalglish, the Liverpool manager at the time of the Hillsborough disaster, made a similar point in his auto­biography, published in 1996. "One legacy of Hills­borough is that the game has become less accessible to the working classes. The prices are too heavy, particularly for a family wanting to go. All clubs must have their commercial side, but there has to be a place for ordinary supporters," he wrote. "With smaller capacities, no one standing and a wealthier audience, grounds have become quieter."

 

The money that poured into English football has largely gone on players' wages. "The industry is characterised by amazing debt levels," says Clarke. "History will not judge lightly the people who squandered that money. Premier League clubs failed to appreciate that if you want a strong apex to a pyramid, you need a strong base."

 

But while there is much criticism of football's "prune juice" economics, without those wages the best players in the world would not be attracted to our shores. Without them, the Premier League would not be the huge global attraction it undoubtedly is and would not bring in ­billions in rights fees.

 

The Premier League points to figures that show stadiums are largely full, that football is proving resilient in a recession and that, while there may be fewer younger faces as a proportion of the crowd, there are more of them in absolute terms because overall crowds are bigger.

 

Football is more pervasive than ever before. Other sports look on with envy at the saturation coverage it enjoys and it continues to inspire devotion in new generations of fans – whether they experience the game live or through their TV.

 

The money flooding in from Sky and season-ticket sales has made English clubs the strongest in Europe and made the Premier League itself envied around the world as a model for other countries and other sports. And in recent years, there are signs some clubs have started to think more strategically about the make-up of their crowds and their long-term future.

 

In 1990, Taylor wrote: "Boardroom struggles for power, wheeler-dealing in the buying and selling of shares, and indeed of whole clubs, sometimes suggest that those involved are more interested in the personal financial benefits or social status of being a director than of directing the club in the interests of its supporter customers."

 

It would be interesting to know what the late Lord Taylor would have made of the latest wave of takeovers and the boardroom battles at Liverpool and elsewhere.

 

Football, by its nature, is a short-term business – owners, managers, players and fans rarely look much beyond the next match, the next round of the cup, the next season. As the English game pauses this week to remember the human cost on the anniversary of its worst tragedy, it might be a moment for football to look to its past for lessons in constructing its future.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/ap...ter-anniversary