Racism in football

[peasepud 59]

Peasepud. Just looking at another quote.

 

From what we were saying about black people in general getting opportunities. How many black football managers in the football league and premiership (i mean ever.)

We are actually one of the few clubs to have employed a black manager.

Is there a reason for the paucity of black managers?

Alexander? Curle? Gullit? not many. Its not really representative is it?

48830[/snapback]

 

Strangely mate, I was thinking the same thing however seeing as there have been so many great black players then I cant see why black managers wouldnt be given a job I therefore put it down to one simple fact, not many black people want to be a football manager.

[ChocChip 0]

 

Mr. Pud,

I would just like to let you know personally that i , Mr. Chip, first name Choc, have only made one post on this thread prior to this one. I suspect that you think i am masquerading in various guises, if so, you're wrong. I have been following this thread (though it is boring tbh) but haven't posted much myself as i've said all i wanted to say ages ago and can't see much point doing it all again. In case any confusion occurs again, and i am mistaken for another, please remember, i'm the one with a sense of humour.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Chip, C.

48834[/snapback]

 

Mr C,

 

This appears to be the second time you have thought I was referring to your good self, I however am not, the wonders of IP checks available to Mods and Admin mean that we can see who has registered/ posted from a particular IP address and yours didnt come up in this case.

 

Out of interest, what was it I said that made you think it was you?

 

Yours confusedly,

 

Pud.

 

*runs to do IP check on ChocChip

48839[/snapback]

 

Mr P.

My humblest of apologies. I read the thread properly after i posted, fool that i am, and only then realised Mr B. seemed to have 2 usernames. I concured you were probably refering to him. Still, i am slightly shocked and more tham a little offended that you think me incapable of this level of intellectual arguement. I'm sure i could if i spent less time repeatedly looking through the 'Fit Birds & Blokes' thread

 

Yours with increasing myopia,

 

Chip, C. Jnr

[bez 0]

Peasepud. Just looking at another quote.

 

From what we were saying about black people in general getting opportunities. How many black football managers in the football league and premiership (i mean ever.)

We are actually one of the few clubs to have employed a black manager.

Is there a reason for the paucity of black managers?

Alexander? Curle? Gullit? not many. Its not really representative is it?

48830[/snapback]

 

 

But there are disproportionately more black players. No-one with any sense would argue this meant white people were being desciminated against though.

 

You can add Tigana too.

48833[/snapback]

Yeah there are a few. Not enough though. Certainly according to somearticles I have red they reckon it is institutional.

 

Take a look at this. Decent artlicle.

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/4034423.stm

[Kid Dynamite 7029]

 

Ignoring the fact that black people are still the victims of racism far moreso than white people....

 

The fact that black people are generally the poorest in developed nations stems from historical racism.  It's not enough to say "we're all equal" when we're obviously not (How many black people did you see at the match on Sunday?  In the pub before or after? where you work(other than cleaners)).  What is required is a system of integration that accelerates the equilibrium of all races in society.  That system is positive discrimination.  Don't think of it as paying for what your ancestors did, but investing in future generations who can live in a world without racism.  Fingers crossed.

48838[/snapback]

 

thats because the black to white ratio is quite low. English is historically a white country, black people emigrated over 5, 10, 15 generations ago. there will always be more white people in england than black people, the same goes for when you go to the pub, the match, the shops etc... its not racism, just like there will always be more black people than white people in africa.

 

Im not denying that racism doesnt happen, of course it does, but positive discrimination will only serve to exacerbate the problem in my opinion. i was looking on the police website the other day and was shocked to read the recruitment statement that said they encouraged applications from ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians etc. it was worded in a way that implied applications from these groups would be looked upon more favourably. that really fucks me off, why would someone make a better copper cos hes black?

[bez 0]

Peasepud. Just looking at another quote.

 

From what we were saying about black people in general getting opportunities. How many black football managers in the football league and premiership (i mean ever.)

We are actually one of the few clubs to have employed a black manager.

Is there a reason for the paucity of black managers?

Alexander? Curle? Gullit? not many. Its not really representative is it?

48830[/snapback]

 

Strangely mate, I was thinking the same thing however seeing as there have been so many great black players then I cant see why black managers wouldnt be given a job I therefore put it down to one simple fact, not many black people want to be a football manager.

48843[/snapback]

You would think so but Batson and Alexander (see the bbc link i posted in an earlier thread)seem to think they have to 'work harder and do better' if they want to be appreciated

That is the point i started this debate with. Even for fans perhaps black players have to do better to be appreciated by us. For many, in their subconscious, that may be the case.

[Kid Dynamite 7029]

if hes getting the job cos hes black then surely that means im not getting the job cos im white? racism?

48829[/snapback]

 

 

Exactly. And a terrible state of affairs that would be. But it wouldn't happen to you that often and would only be until true equality is reached. See how angry you get about one bit of discrimination. Can you imagine being black and getting that every day of the week?

48842[/snapback]

 

no but two wrongs dont make a right.

[ChocChip 0]

 

Ignoring the fact that black people are still the victims of racism far moreso than white people....

 

The fact that black people are generally the poorest in developed nations stems from historical racism.  It's not enough to say "we're all equal" when we're obviously not (How many black people did you see at the match on Sunday?  In the pub before or after? where you work(other than cleaners)).  What is required is a system of integration that accelerates the equilibrium of all races in society.  That system is positive discrimination.  Don't think of it as paying for what your ancestors did, but investing in future generations who can live in a world without racism.  Fingers crossed.

48838[/snapback]

 

thats because the black to white ratio is quite low. English is historically a white country, black people emigrated over 5, 10, 15 generations ago. there will always be more white people in england than black people, the same goes for when you go to the pub, the match, the shops etc... its not racism, just like there will always be more black people than white people in africa.

 

Im not denying that racism doesnt happen, of course it does, but positive discrimination will only serve to exacerbate the problem in my opinion. i was looking on the police website the other day and was shocked to read the recruitment statement that said they encouraged applications from ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians etc. it was worded in a way that implied applications from these groups would be looked upon more favourably. that really fucks me off, why would someone make a better copper cos hes black?

48846[/snapback]

 

'Cause he'd know who all the criminals are, obvious tbh

[peasepud 59]

Im not denying that racism doesnt happen, of course it does, but positive discrimination will only serve to exacerbate the problem in my opinion. i was looking on the police website the other day and was shocked to read the recruitment statement that said they encouraged applications from ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians etc. it was worded in a way that implied applications from these groups would be looked upon more favourably. that really fucks me off, why would someone make a better copper cos hes black?

48846[/snapback]

 

Not that they would make a better copper but more that they will better help to represent the communities, there are a few jobs where I would agree with some form of positive recruitment (theres a difference between that and positive discrimination). The Police force being one of those, a growing section of our communities are black, asian, gay etc and showing that the force doesnt discriminate against these groups within itself will help show that they dont disciminate in their dealings with the community.

 

However employing a person as a copper purely because they are black, female or gay (or any combination of the above) would be a bad move, all applicants should prove that they'd make a good officer before being given the job.

[Kid Dynamite 7029]

never thought of that like! and everyone knows black people run faster! for chasing bad lads

[ChocChip 0]

never thought of that like! and everyone knows black people run faster! for chasing bad lads

48854[/snapback]

 

Exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxactly.

Anyway, i'm off lads. A friend has asked me to aid the cause for racial equilibrium by engaging in a spot of car-radio de-installation. He says it's a political statement.

[Happy Face 29]

thats because the black to white ratio is quite low. English is historically a white country, black people emigrated over 5, 10, 15 generations ago. there will always be more white people in england than black people, the same goes for when you go to the pub, the match, the shops etc... its not racism, just like there will always be more black people than white people in africa.

 

Im not denying that racism doesnt happen, of course it does, but positive discrimination will only serve to exacerbate the problem in my opinion. i was looking on the police website the other day and was shocked to read the recruitment statement that said they encouraged applications from ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians etc. it was worded in a way that implied applications from these groups would be looked upon more favourably. that really fucks me off, why would someone make a better copper cos hes black?

48846[/snapback]

 

Sorry if I repeat anyone here, board went a bit funny on me...

 

The first paragraph is weak. Is the black white ratio 52,000:1? I can't find the stats but I'd guess it would be a lot higher than that (or should that be lower )

 

The second paragraph is misguided. Do you not believe the police force should be representative of the nation. Personally I have never seen a single black policeman. That is an absolute disgrace. The institutionally racist force is not an attractive prospect to intelligent black people. They know they'll be in for a rough ride if they join. I think the police force is one of the few places where I'd hire a weaker candidate as long as he/she was capable.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right? Yes they do -2-3 = 1. Seriously though, a more fitting statement would be billions upon billions of wrongs over hundreds of years followed by a few decades of wrongs against the original wrongdoers for the purposes of eradicating the ongoing wrongdoing don't make a right.

 

Try saying that 3 times fast!

 

Edit:

Edited October 24, 2005 by Happy Face

[Renton 21627]

never thought of that like! and everyone knows black people run faster! for chasing bad lads

48854[/snapback]

 

As long as the criminals don't swim across a river of course....

[Guest alex]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

[Happy Face 29]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

48858[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but apparently you can't slag off the black players. That's racist.

[Guest alex]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

48858[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but apparently you can't slag off the black players. That's racist.

48861[/snapback]

[bez 0]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

48858[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but apparently you can't slag off the black players. That's racist.

48861[/snapback]

Thats not racist. Your comment, however, is churlish.

[Happy Face 29]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

48858[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but apparently you can't slag off the black players. That's racist.

48861[/snapback]

Thats not racist. Your comment, however, is churlish.

48864[/snapback]

 

Me? A churl? I've never been so offended

[Toonraider 0]

is that a back handed remark that gullit was hated cos he was black? honest question?

48831[/snapback]

Nope. It simply says that there have been numerous articles wondering why there have been so few black managers. Gullit got a fair crack up here I thought. Flys in the face of what I say but he had a charisma when he came that evaporated when he arsed up. That has nowt to do with race.

 

My question remains the same. GENERALLY are black players given a fair and EQUAL crack of the whip from fans?

 

I am not convinced.

 

The black manager issue is just another way of saying that black people in football have more to prove. They find it more difficult.

48837[/snapback]

 

Well this thread has certainly gone off in all directions!

Have to mention Leroy Rosenior here, hes our manager at Torquay united. And he's black. He got the job on merit because our chairman felt he was right for the job. Admittedly we're not doing well this season, but we will never forget he took us up to league one and gave us so many memories to cherish on the way. Leroy has our respect and we always sing his name at the end of a match, even now while we're struggling.

Leroy being black is never and has never been an issue here, infact, Torquay have in recent years had a high percentage of black players (before leroy's time) this is quite unusual when you think there are so few black people living down here in Devon.

The vast majority of tufc fans are white, yet we never have a racist problem here. i think once i heard some idiot call out a name and he was very quickly removed by stewards and fans i might add.

 

I really believe people can make a problem where there isnt one, often by giving these racist morons the attention they crave.

[bez 0]

Hasn't Shola been gettin stick lately for being shit rather than being black though?

48858[/snapback]

 

Yeah, but apparently you can't slag off the black players. That's racist.

48861[/snapback]

Thats not racist. Your comment, however, is churlish.

48864[/snapback]

 

Me? A churl? I've never been so offended

48866[/snapback]

I said Churlish. Not even a 'proper' churl as Graeme Souness might say.

[bez 0]

is that a back handed remark that gullit was hated cos he was black? honest question?

48831[/snapback]

Nope. It simply says that there have been numerous articles wondering why there have been so few black managers. Gullit got a fair crack up here I thought. Flys in the face of what I say but he had a charisma when he came that evaporated when he arsed up. That has nowt to do with race.

 

My question remains the same. GENERALLY are black players given a fair and EQUAL crack of the whip from fans?

 

I am not convinced.

 

The black manager issue is just another way of saying that black people in football have more to prove. They find it more difficult.

48837[/snapback]

 

Well this thread has certainly gone off in all directions!

Have to mention Leroy Rosenior here, hes our manager at Torquay united. And he's black. He got the job on merit because our chairman felt he was right for the job. Admittedly we're not doing well this season, but we will never forget he took us up to league one and gave us so many memories to cherish on the way. Leroy has our respect and we always sing his name at the end of a match, even now while we're struggling.

Leroy being black is never and has never been an issue here, infact, Torquay have in recent years had a high percentage of black players (before leroy's time) this is quite unusual when you think there are so few black people living down here in Devon.

The vast majority of tufc fans are white, yet we never have a racist problem here. i think once i heard some idiot call out a name and he was very quickly removed by stewards and fans i might add.

 

I really believe people can make a problem where there isnt one, often by giving these racist morons the attention they crave.

48867[/snapback]

Fair point . Should we have KROF days? Do we need them? If there are problems with racism, even in everyday UK life, e.g the jobs market, what do we do about it?

[Happy Face 29]

I said Churlish. Not even a 'proper' churl as Graeme Souness might say.

48869[/snapback]

 

Churlist

[bez 0]

I said Churlish. Not even a 'proper' churl as Graeme Souness might say.

48869[/snapback]

 

Churlist

48871[/snapback]

[Shearergol 0]

is that a back handed remark that gullit was hated cos he was black? honest question?

48831[/snapback]

Nope. It simply says that there have been numerous articles wondering why there have been so few black managers. Gullit got a fair crack up here I thought. Flys in the face of what I say but he had a charisma when he came that evaporated when he arsed up. That has nowt to do with race.

 

My question remains the same. GENERALLY are black players given a fair and EQUAL crack of the whip from fans?

 

I am not convinced.

 

The black manager issue is just another way of saying that black people in football have more to prove. They find it more difficult.

48837[/snapback]

 

Well this thread has certainly gone off in all directions!

Have to mention Leroy Rosenior here, hes our manager at Torquay united. And he's black. He got the job on merit because our chairman felt he was right for the job. Admittedly we're not doing well this season, but we will never forget he took us up to league one and gave us so many memories to cherish on the way. Leroy has our respect and we always sing his name at the end of a match, even now while we're struggling.

Leroy being black is never and has never been an issue here, infact, Torquay have in recent years had a high percentage of black players (before leroy's time) this is quite unusual when you think there are so few black people living down here in Devon.

The vast majority of tufc fans are white, yet we never have a racist problem here. i think once i heard some idiot call out a name and he was very quickly removed by stewards and fans i might add.

 

I really believe people can make a problem where there isnt one, often by giving these racist morons the attention they crave.

48867[/snapback]

 

 

Good post.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Andy Cole, Sir Les, Bernard, Solano, Asprilla - what do they all have in common? Massive heroes on Tyneside.

 

Butt

Viana

O'Brien

Barton

Peacock (Darren)

Hooper

Marcelino

Robert

 

What do they all have in common? Abused by Toon fans at one time or another.

 

This whole "is it because they are black" crap is pathetic. If they (the critics) don't like you, they don't like you. Regardless of color, creed, cost, background or nationality.

 

I have only ever heard one racist remark at St. James' Park - directed at Uriah Rennie. Someone called him a black bastard and myself and others quickly told this cretin what we though about him and he shut up like the coward he is. That was at the Barca friendly a few years back.

 

Newcastle fans are the most tolerable fans of any, we have been praised many a time not just by fellow (rival) fans but by the likes of Henry, kick it out and show racism the red card.

 

We love our football and couldn't give a damn about anything else and if we don't like someone, well we can be right twats but never racist.

 

Of course there will be racists at SJP and in the ranks but then I could say that of every walk of life so it's not as if we are unuique here, we aren't. By making such pathetic assumptions you undermine and patronise the efforts of others and indeed fellow fans who have done a lot to stamp it out. To such an extent I have only heard one racist comment at SJP in over 10 years of going. That's a miracle given how half the fans are racist and out to abuse all the black players...

 

Talent is what brings adulation or scorn.

 

For every Faye there is a white Faye and a Sir Les so it's a nothing argument and one I take serious offence at because it just dilutes the message and makes the issue seem more significant than what it is while the real culprits, the racists can hide.

 

Don't tar people with a brush or pre-judge, that's as bad as racism in my book.

[Guest alex]

You've only ever heard one racist remark at Newcastle? Seriously? I wouldn't say it was a bad place for racism at all and I don't think Shola gets stick for being black (well, for a small minority there may be a racial element). I would however say that down the years I've heard a few racist remark at the Toon. Someone behind me called Bernard a black c*nt once and you used to hear players getting abused for their colour quite a lot in the 80's.