NUFC Accounts

[Hadrian 0]

Just wanting to play devils advocaat (or whatever) but could it not be more prudent in the football world to continue paying 7% interest on a mortgage and invest the 100million on new players. That investment would in turn, increase revenue in ticket and merchandising, increase the clubs value overall and most importantly get us higher up the table which in turn would automatically generate us additional income in TV revenue and possibly a European place allowing us to finance the interest payments?

 

But they're not mutually exclusive. If Ashley wanted to put more money in the club then he would have done. Let's say there was no change of control clause- Ashley would simply have put in £60m less. I don't think he'd have funded transfers with it. Anyway, raising new finance would have been very difficult. This is not a good business.

 

To revisit the 'debt free' thing- we're free of long-term debt outside the company structure and Ashley. As he owns 100% of the club as long as he is owner (and guaranteeing loans to himself) then we are, in effect, free of long-term debt. There will be shorter-term debts occuring just as in the running of any business.

 

If someone came in and bought the club, paying back SJHL £100m would be part of the deal.

 

Edit: Just thinking about it, had Ashley not provided a personal guarantee in July with his sizeable wealth and decided to just let it drop, EY wouldn't have signed off the accounts, the banks will have withdrawn their facilities and we'd have faced administration in double quick time.

 

 

by that you mean the 67m pound loan secured on future ticket sales ?

[OTF 7485]

..Also worth noting that it would not be in the bank's interest for us to go into Administration, and so even if Ashley was not around I doubt that would have been the case - they would have just given a different reason for an 'exemption'.

[peasepud 59]

Edit: Just thinking about it, had Ashley not provided a personal guarantee in July with his sizeable wealth and decided to just let it drop, EY wouldn't have signed off the accounts, the banks will have withdrawn their facilities and we'd have faced administration in double quick time.

 

Then I take it all back, the mans obviously a saint who bought us purely to ensure that a national institution and household name didnt die.

 

 

Sorry for calling you a fat twat Ash.....

[ewerk 31195]

Edit: Just thinking about it, had Ashley not provided a personal guarantee in July with his sizeable wealth and decided to just let it drop, EY wouldn't have signed off the accounts, the banks will have withdrawn their facilities and we'd have faced administration in double quick time.

 

 

To be fair he didn't really have much choice in the matter as if he hadn't then we could've went into administration and it's likely that SJH would have done the same had he been in charge.

[Matt 0]

Edit: Just thinking about it, had Ashley not provided a personal guarantee in July with his sizeable wealth and decided to just let it drop, EY wouldn't have signed off the accounts, the banks will have withdrawn their facilities and we'd have faced administration in double quick time.

 

Then I take it all back, the mans obviously a saint who bought us purely to ensure that a national institution and household name didnt die.

 

 

Sorry for calling you a fat twat Ash.....

 

I'm not saying he is- he's a prime grade cock- but that's the reality of the situation.

[Guest alex]

These accounts come out and King Cunt crawls out the woodwork again.

 

I know it's hard when you find out that if it wasn't for Ashley guaranteeing to support us financially we would be in administration but you've got to take it on the chin.

I'd have a modicum of respect for you (not that I'm suggesting you're arsed about that) if you didn't go hiding when he was doing things like offering Kinnear the job on a permanent basis or trying to flog Given. But where would you and your petty point scoring be then?

 

don't worry about it mate, if his man stays around long enough, we will end up right back where the Halls and shepherd found us, with the DOF running the show, and hopefully he would fuck off for good.

Amusing how he instinctively knew who I was talking about as well (i.e. the bit in bold)

Edited January 23, 2009 by alex

[Isegrim 9897]

Edit: Just thinking about it, had Ashley not provided a personal guarantee in July with his sizeable wealth and decided to just let it drop, EY wouldn't have signed off the accounts, the banks will have withdrawn their facilities and we'd have faced administration in double quick time.

 

Then I take it all back, the mans obviously a saint who bought us purely to ensure that a national institution and household name didnt die.

 

 

Sorry for calling you a fat twat Ash.....

 

I'm not saying he is- he's a prime grade cock- but that's the reality of the situation.

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team. The finances look very rotten. It's absolutely shocking that a squad that is as thin as ours creates such an unhealthy wage bill. No wonder the club tries to squeeze every penny (change of telephone numbers) out of people to make money...

[Fop 1]

Effectively it's similar to Leeds back in the day, all we were waiting on is the relegation.... the fact that the Global Financial Crisis has hit now means that we're in some ways lucky that Ashley came in when he did. Of course, we can all appreciate that the numbers being put out will have been fudged in Ashley's favour to give him a more favourable appearance to supporters. If the Club was still listed on the Stock Exchange I have no doubt that the 'official' numbers would have represented a much rosier picture!!

 

Which is what makes our position interesting.

 

Is NUFC basically going to be at best a yoyo club under Ashley's £0 regime - bearing in mind in the mid-90's we nearly matched Man U on income and that there is no bargain basement success in football.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And will Baggio be happy with a Championship NUFC for the first time in his life?

[ewerk 31195]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

[Guest alex]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

Aye, another 'bonus', following on from what I said about the reputation of the club at present and those in charge, is that Ashley has seemingly built up a terrible name for himself in financial circles as well.

[Isegrim 9897]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

Aye, another 'bonus', following on from what I said about the reputation of the club at present and those in charge, is that Ashley has seemingly built up a terrible name for himself in financial circles as well.

I think that's why he was looking for a north-east based business man. He'll only find someone who is willing to invest in "his" club. Not likely the way Ashley treated it. But without third party cash injection I can hardly see how Newcastle will restore its reputation on the field.

[ewerk 31195]

I see Liverpool have been linked to some billionaire http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/7846422.stm

 

Why couldn't we get someone like this whenever the club was up for sale?

[Matty 0]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

Aye, another 'bonus', following on from what I said about the reputation of the club at present and those in charge, is that Ashley has seemingly built up a terrible name for himself in financial circles as well.

 

He got nowt but stick at the annual Sports Direct meeting didn't he?

 

 

He did so much better as a recluse like...

[Guest alex]

I see Liverpool have been linked to some billionaire http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/7846422.stm

 

Why couldn't we get someone like this whenever the club was up for sale?

They were linked with us last year according to Radio 5 (can't remember that myself).

[ewerk 31195]

He got nowt but stick at the annual Sports Direct meeting didn't he?

 

 

He did so much better as a recluse like...

 

Labelling half your shareholders as 'crybabies' will have that effect.

[ewerk 31195]

I see Liverpool have been linked to some billionaire http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/7846422.stm

 

Why couldn't we get someone like this whenever the club was up for sale?

 

And Chelsea too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...sea/7846371.stm

[Guest alex]

Anyone even remotely interested in buying us would be daft not to wait until the summer to see if we stay up.

[ChezGiven 0]

You are behaving like battered wives refusing to leave their husbands.

 

He bought the club to make money -no other reason, he has no interest at all in wha the supporters might want or having a succesful team. Look at his business empire, cheap tat piled high with no regard for staff or respect for customers

 

The only unanswered question is did he buy the club to flog on straight away for a quick profit, or did he buy it to run it on the cheap for as long as possible as an ongoing cash cow.

 

He is an asset stripping cunt who cares about nothing but making money

 

Nae offense mate but an audited account by Enrst and Young doesnt lie and thats clearly shown as utter bollocks by these accounts.

 

As for his profit motive, i'm fucking delighted that he is driven by making money, i'd hate us to be the only football club in the world without a chairman that is and therefore being run by someone potentially clinically insane.

 

 

An audited account by Enrst and Young might not lie, but it also doesnt tell anything like the full story. As mentioned before it takes no account of the money from next two years season ticket sales, or am I expected to believe that has been put into a bank account untouched until the relevant season. At the very least it must have some effect on cash flow.

 

I dont get how the accounts disprove my assertion anyway, bought the company, paid off the debt flog off as many players and bring in cheap replacements, if it wasnt for the credit crunch I would imagine he could have turned himself a very tidy quick profit.

 

He hasnt sold it, plainly thinks we arent going to get relegated, and that the fans will turn up regdless and the years to come will see media money increasing as the wage bill tumbles. Flog off a couple of his mate Wisey's imports at a healthy profit every year, jobs a gudun

 

Your last comment is frankly bizzarre, Its nice your happy about his motives though. Me, I prefer someone whose ambitions stretched to having a succesful club

 

It could only appear bizarre if you're naive enough to think that those people occupying the powerful positions at Europes biggest clubs are not there because of the money to be made out of football. Who do you think negotiated the 2.7bn television deal? The tea ladys? People want success because of the money it entails.

 

I dont get the season ticket thing. You got a discount, you can get your money back and Ashley can use it for the benefit of the club. If he did anything else with it, it would be embezzlement, which is why we have E&Y doing the books.

 

Your assertion that he has sold off all the players and bought in cheap replacements is just nonsense. He's not been able to attract decent players at their market worth so the squad is light but the accounts show that Operating costs (wages being 70% of that) excluding the fancy accountancy shit is 100m and Revenue is 98m. That needs sorting out asap if we are going to be successful in the future.

[stevietoon 0]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

Aye, another 'bonus', following on from what I said about the reputation of the club at present and those in charge, is that Ashley has seemingly built up a terrible name for himself in financial circles as well.

 

so; we are in the shit; we owe our owner £100m and his trading arm of NUFC lost £30m ? according to a report on the accounts of the club - have we physically seen these accounts by the way. £100m by the way is only one third of what MA lost in playing the stocks and gambling on HBOS.

 

these figures compare quite favourably with Arsenal. who have a serviceable debt of £260m which costs them £15.3m a year to manage.

their turnover increased to £200m due to a bigger attendance at the emirates, but this was helped by £23m coming in from the sale of flats on the old highbury site; this money will dry up and therefore is not a sustainable income.

their serviceable debt will be paid up in 2030 (a mortgage to you and me)

 

our debt is not serviceable, but owed to one man. and our turnover actually increased. thats you me and TV revenue money; money from the customer; the same people that he refuses to communicate with.

his spin doctors are going to do their best to paint MA as the good guy and a wonderful man doing so much good for the club and being hounded by those who dont "understand". well, we do undertstand Mr Ashley; we understand only too well that you have mismanaged this whole club since appointing Wise and LLambias. Yeou refuse to borrow and have done very succesfully in your other business dealings, but in doing so with NUFC you have lined the pockets of Barclays to the tune of approx £60m when you paid off the mortgage instead of re mortgaging the ground. dont blame the credit crunch because this was at least 12 months before the phrase credit crunch was even heard mentioned. that £60M could have been used on playing staff, bringing in players that would have increased gthe quality of football on the pitch and subsequently increasing gate revenue, kit sales and general merchandising, tv money and untimately making the club attractive to a buyer should you have wished to sell. you chose the other route; ignnorance of your customer base, contempt for your playing staff management team and ultimately open warfare between you and the fans; well done. now apply for your business man of the year award

 

i wonderI f we have lost anything to Icelandic banks as well. One of them certainly has a corporate box at SJP.

[snakehips 0]

Underlines his desperation to beg for co-investors last summer, something he should concentrate on after strengthening the first team.

 

Who would work with him? He treats his shareholders like shit, treats the fans like shit and treats his staff like shit.

 

I suppose there's a chance of an Ashley / Kemsley dream time.

Aye, another 'bonus', following on from what I said about the reputation of the club at present and those in charge, is that Ashley has seemingly built up a terrible name for himself in financial circles as well.

 

so; we are in the shit; we owe our owner £100m and his trading arm of NUFC lost £30m ? according to a report on the accounts of the club - have we physically seen these accounts by the way. £100m by the way is only one third of what MA lost in playing the stocks and gambling on HBOS.

 

these figures compare quite favourably with Arsenal. who have a serviceable debt of £260m which costs them £15.3m a year to manage.

their turnover increased to £200m due to a bigger attendance at the emirates, but this was helped by £23m coming in from the sale of flats on the old highbury site; this money will dry up and therefore is not a sustainable income.

their serviceable debt will be paid up in 2030 (a mortgage to you and me)

 

our debt is not serviceable, but owed to one man. and our turnover actually increased. thats you me and TV revenue money; money from the customer; the same people that he refuses to communicate with.

his spin doctors are going to do their best to paint MA as the good guy and a wonderful man doing so much good for the club and being hounded by those who dont "understand". well, we do undertstand Mr Ashley; we understand only too well that you have mismanaged this whole club since appointing Wise and LLambias. Yeou refuse to borrow and have done very succesfully in your other business dealings, but in doing so with NUFC you have lined the pockets of Barclays to the tune of approx £60m when you paid off the mortgage instead of re mortgaging the ground. dont blame the credit crunch because this was at least 12 months before the phrase credit crunch was even heard mentioned. that £60M could have been used on playing staff, bringing in players that would have increased gthe quality of football on the pitch and subsequently increasing gate revenue, kit sales and general merchandising, tv money and untimately making the club attractive to a buyer should you have wished to sell. you chose the other route; ignnorance of your customer base, contempt for your playing staff management team and ultimately open warfare between you and the fans; well done. now apply for your business man of the year award

 

i wonderI f we have lost anything to Icelandic banks as well. One of them certainly has a corporate box at SJP.

 

Sure I read/heard somewhere the other day that Arsenal's Highbury flat selling-and-getting-money-back thing had blown up in their faces. Anyone confirm this?

 

As for Ashley having to pay off our stadium mortgage - he was forced to do this under the agreement of the loan. Even if he hadn't been forced to pay off that loan and had bought more players, that would have pushed up our wage bill even further than the astronomical level than it is now!

 

I hate the way I'm appearing as an Ashley apologist/supporter over this lot, but I just can't understand how people are so entrenched in their 'knowledge' that the accounts don't let Ashley off the hook what so ever. These figures show to an uneducated man like me that NUFC were in trouble - a whole lot of trouble that Ashley has helped alleviate.

 

I hate the way that Ashley has us all at one another's throats. I guess Shepherd should take some of that blame as well.

Edited January 23, 2009 by snakehips

[Guest alex]

I agree with you tbf Snakey. And with what Chez said earlier about keeping a balanced view. That doesn't excuse the mistakes, lies etc. not that either of you are arguing it does.

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

You are behaving like battered wives refusing to leave their husbands.

 

He bought the club to make money -no other reason, he has no interest at all in wha the supporters might want or having a succesful team. Look at his business empire, cheap tat piled high with no regard for staff or respect for customers

 

The only unanswered question is did he buy the club to flog on straight away for a quick profit, or did he buy it to run it on the cheap for as long as possible as an ongoing cash cow.

 

He is an asset stripping cunt who cares about nothing but making money

 

Nae offense mate but an audited account by Enrst and Young doesnt lie and thats clearly shown as utter bollocks by these accounts.

 

As for his profit motive, i'm fucking delighted that he is driven by making money, i'd hate us to be the only football club in the world without a chairman that is and therefore being run by someone potentially clinically insane.

 

 

An audited account by Enrst and Young might not lie, but it also doesnt tell anything like the full story. As mentioned before it takes no account of the money from next two years season ticket sales, or am I expected to believe that has been put into a bank account untouched until the relevant season. At the very least it must have some effect on cash flow.

 

I dont get how the accounts disprove my assertion anyway, bought the company, paid off the debt flog off as many players and bring in cheap replacements, if it wasnt for the credit crunch I would imagine he could have turned himself a very tidy quick profit.

 

He hasnt sold it, plainly thinks we arent going to get relegated, and that the fans will turn up regdless and the years to come will see media money increasing as the wage bill tumbles. Flog off a couple of his mate Wisey's imports at a healthy profit every year, jobs a gudun

 

Your last comment is frankly bizzarre, Its nice your happy about his motives though. Me, I prefer someone whose ambitions stretched to having a succesful club

 

It could only appear bizarre if you're naive enough to think that those people occupying the powerful positions at Europes biggest clubs are not there because of the money to be made out of football. Who do you think negotiated the 2.7bn television deal? The tea ladys? People want success because of the money it entails.

 

The people occupying power at Europes biggest clubs are there for the glory rather than the money. Burlesconi Agnelli dont run clubs for a fast buck theyve already made there money. Real Madrid are hardly run ti make a dividend. Sure the Glazers and Hicks Gillette are looking to make a profit, but they realise that the team comes first. .

Ashley isnt acting anything like the owners of Europes biggest clubs hes acting like the people who brought Brighton or Mansfield, buying a club purely for the ability to make a profit, with no regard for the results ot the fans

 

I dont get the season ticket thing. You got a discount, you can get your money back and Ashley can use it for the benefit of the club. If he did anything else with it, it would be embezzlement, which is why we have E&Y doing the books.

 

He has given me no reason to beleive he will use any money for the benefit of the club

 

Your assertion that he has sold off all the players and bought in cheap replacements is just nonsense. He's not been able to attract decent players at their market worth so the squad is light but the accounts show that Operating costs (wages being 70% of that) excluding the fancy accountancy shit is 100m and Revenue is 98m. That needs sorting out asap if we are going to be successful in the future.

 

He obviously hasnt {yet}sold off all theplayers, my assertion is that his intentions are to replace high earners with a steady strea of cheap imports who he will hope to sell at a profit. I think he thinks he can maintain a Premierhip place in this way.

 

 

 

Im not denying the club was in a perilous financial position, but I am certain the Accounts dont tell the whole story. The very fact they are released during the transfer window is so obviously to deflect criticism of not sorting out the team. We all know hes got a few quid, we all know he has paid of the debt but I dont see why this absolves him of responsibilty to run the club properly.

I would be behind Ashley if he had come in, been open about how bad the finances were and given us a vision of the future. I think the majority of sensible fans are so sick f underperforming overpaid players they would have supported trying to trim the wage bill and bring in cheaper younger qality prospects, I know I would. As it stands though I dont trust him, or his motives and I dont beleive anything that comes out of him or the club

[Guest alex]

Im not denying the club was in a perilous financial position, but I am certain the Accounts dont tell the whole story. The very fact they are released during the transfer window is so obviously to deflect criticism of not sorting out the team. We all know hes got a few quid, we all know he has paid of the debt but I dont see why this absolves him of responsibilty to run the club properly.

I would be behind Ashley if he had come in, been open about how bad the finances were and given us a vision of the future. I think the majority of sensible fans are so sick f underperforming overpaid players they would have supported trying to trim the wage bill and bring in cheaper younger qality prospects, I know I would. As it stands though I dont trust him, or his motives and I dont beleive anything that comes out of him or the club

Agree with this as well like. Especially the bit in bold.

[ChezGiven 0]

You could just say released to deflect criticism but if the criticism is not limited to poor communication and the wrong appointments but extends to 'he is pocketing all our cash and spending nowt' and gullible people without much experience in financial matters join in and this gains a critical mass of support, you could say that he is releasing the data to help fans think through the situation and allowing them to act with their heads and not their hearts at this one crucial moment in our history.

 

And fuck punctuation whilst we're at it.

[peasepud 59]

at the end of the day anyone who is willing to buy a football club from shepherd and hall without due dilligence cannot call themselves a businessman. If he had done that then we wouldn't have been in the mess we are now. He would have either walked away or negotiated a better purchase price leaving more to invest wisely.