Souness' cry for help

[not_a_racist 0]

 

Were you banned for racism?

Is raacism a temporary thing?

Some of us have standards and understand the problems with tolerating arseholes and thinking that prejudice of that sort is ephemeral.

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I take it that was at me. No, I wasn't banned for racism, it was for getting into an argument which deteriorated into a slanging match, but for me, it is all water under the bridge now and also for the others concerned I am sure.

 

Now, why don't you answer my question. Whats your excuse ?

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No it wasnt you.However, racism is NEVER water under the bridge though. On that you are wrong.

Me? I simply prefer to remind people of their problems. Personally, other than thinking you are very very wrong on Bellamy and obsessed by Souness, I have no problem with you either.

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no, I said wasn't racism. It was just a slanging match, but it's all done and over, I let bygones be bygones in real life too, when apologies etc are genuine and meant in good spirit.

 

As far as the football team goes, I am only interested in what goes on when players "cross the white line" - that is one of Souness' sayings. And another of his hypocritical ones. Bellamy may have been out of order calling his manager in public but a lot of things led to this. In pure football terms, Souness started it the day he subbed him at Charlton to make a point of authority, putting that before winning the game, as Bellamy was the best player on the field. Proper managers just do not do this, they recognise who their biggest assets are, and gain their respect, especially if they are spikey players with desire to get the best from them.

 

I also go by results. And they speak for themselves.

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so why hass Alan oliver been on national radio intimatating that he has a picture of Craig Bellamy making hand gestures at SBR?

You assume Souness wasnt simply resting Bellamy. He had been carrying a knock and had been busy at the time.

Souness isnt the answer. However, workers int he workplace do far more than work!

That is why the likes of Ferguson/Moyes/Wenger get rid of those who stir up thte shite. Think Whiteside, strachan, Sharpe, Cole, Yorke at Man Utd , Blomquists public dressing down at Everton as examples.

We need a new manager. We needed more professional players. If it was all about 'across the white line' I would agree with you. But it isnt. It is naive to suggest it is.

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I don't consider myself naive ........ ! .... Don't you think Ferguson sold Cole and Yorke for football reasons, ie having won the European Cup, he didn't stand still, needed to freshen up the team etc...you can't stand still in football, and he bought Van Nistelrooy. It was Souness who sold Yorke and Cole for personality reasons, and Cole especially is still looking as fit and hungry as ever at 34.

 

Whiteside, aye, was probably a knacker, but the difference betwen Ferguson and Souness is that Ferguson still has the ability to put out teams and motivate them and manage them into winning teams, Souness doesn't. I don't know if he had a problem with Strachan ? He had him at Aberdeen and he was part of a top team there who broke the Celtic - Rangers stranglehold, and won a european trophy as well.

 

We def need a new manager. And hopefully it will be soon, because if it is there is still a lot to play for this season.

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Yeah, we need a new manager. Ferguson reckons that Cole and Yorke has been around too long and got too comfortable. Coasting. Basically. Wrong attitude.

Ferguson hated Strachan. Still does apparently. Strachan was an exceptional player and many Man Utd fans pointed to Strachan winning the league when he left as the problem Ferguson had with 'personalities'.

Now there is a world of difference between Ferguson and Souness but they both demand players to be professional in every respect. Strachan was tolerated for the reasons you gave earlier. Hewas a bloody good player. Fergie then had enough. Strachan won the league and various individual honours. MAn Utd fans went mental. Who was right? there isnt a right answer.

 

 

I personally feel Cole gets a rough ride when he returns but he deserves it for his daft song. Did more for NUFC than any forward player we have had in recent times other than PB and AS.

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I think Strachan was a top top quality player personally, who didn't really get all the plaudits he deserved.

 

I suppose that following Strachan going to Leeds, when Manu got Cantona from Leeds they got their own back though !

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They did but by that time Ferguson had stamped his personality on his club. Good pros with ability. That team he had (pre-Bosman) doesnt look excellent but it was:

Peter Schmeichel

Parker, Bruce. Pallister, Irwin

Kanchelskis, Ince, Keane, Giggs

Hughes, Cantona

 

Ince got the bullet cos his attitude was wrong. Apparently Hughes did too. Others like McClair stayed for their professionalism rather than ability.

Ferguson is an altogether different manager to Souness. He can motivate and adapt in ways GS cant.

However, they both know that the basis is professionalism and a basic understanding of who is boss. Businesses like football clubs cant work with laissez faire management for long. 2003/04 we were seeing what resulted form pandering to the whims of millionaire kids too often.

[LeazesMag 0]

They did but by that time Ferguson had stamped his personality on his club. Good pros with ability. That team he had (pre-Bosman) doesnt look excellent but it was:

Peter Schmeichel

Parker, Bruce. Pallister, Irwin

Kanchelskis, Ince, Keane, Giggs

Hughes, Cantona

 

Ince got the bullet cos his attitude was wrong. Apparently Hughes did too. Others like McClair stayed for their professionalism rather than ability.

Ferguson is an altogether different manager to Souness. He can motivate and adapt in ways GS cant.

However, they both know that the basis is professionalism and a basic understanding of who is boss. Businesses like football clubs cant work with laissez faire management for long. 2003/04 we were seeing what resulted form pandering to the whims of millionaire kids too often.

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These players got the bullet after winning trophies, I don't understand how you can say it is alright for any manager to bin top players, it isn't. The important thing is that Ferguson is good, or great, at managing top players whereas Souness isn't, and selling Bellamy cost him his opportunity to build trust among fans that he was clued up football wise which is always the most important thing. If Souness had did that, he would have had a chance but he has cost the club a fortune just to massage his ego.

 

See the link in my sig for an appraisal of his personality and whole approach to management.

 

Anyway, since you didn't answer my previous question, I'll answer it for you,

Neil/Lien/scoreboard/notaracist

[Black&White 0]

Lee Sharpe was on national radio recently saying that Ferguson begged him not to leave but Lee Sharpe had to leave for regular first team football. Eric Cantona is a "spikey" player who didn't conform to any rules, thats why he was sold by Howard Wilkinson. But Ferguson delt with Cantona as aspecial case (read fergusons biography), it's called man managemant, dealing with each individual on there own personality instead of saying "im the headmaster, play by my rulse or you or out, or i'll grab you by the throat and have a fight with you.

Ferguson and Souness are in different leagues because of this style of managemant.

[LeazesMag 0]

Lee Sharpe was on national radio recently saying that Ferguson begged him not to leave but Lee Sharpe had to leave for regular first team football. Eric Cantona is a "spikey" player who didn't conform to any rules, thats why he was sold by Howard Wilkinson. But Ferguson delt with Cantona as aspecial case (read fergusons biography), it's called man managemant, dealing with each individual on there own personality instead of saying "im the headmaster, play by my rulse or you or out, or i'll grab you by the throat and have a fight with you.

Ferguson and Souness are in different leagues because of this style of managemant.

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spot on. These debates are going to go on and on until those who can't see the simplicity of it all .....

[Howaythelads 0]

Lee Sharpe was on national radio recently saying that Ferguson begged him not to leave but Lee Sharpe had to leave for regular first team football. Eric Cantona is a "spikey" player who didn't conform to any rules, thats why he was sold by Howard Wilkinson. But Ferguson delt with Cantona as aspecial case (read fergusons biography), it's called man managemant, dealing with each individual on there own personality instead of saying "im the headmaster, play by my rulse or you or out, or i'll grab you by the throat and have a fight with you.

Ferguson and Souness are in different leagues because of this style of managemant.

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spot on. These debates are going to go on and on until those who can't see the simplicity of it all .....

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Souness is a shit manager and a bully. End of.

[not_a_racist 0]

Lee Sharpe was on national radio recently saying that Ferguson begged him not to leave but Lee Sharpe had to leave for regular first team football. Eric Cantona is a "spikey" player who didn't conform to any rules, thats why he was sold by Howard Wilkinson. But Ferguson delt with Cantona as aspecial case (read fergusons biography), it's called man managemant, dealing with each individual on there own personality instead of saying "im the headmaster, play by my rulse or you or out, or i'll grab you by the throat and have a fight with you.

Ferguson and Souness are in different leagues because of this style of managemant.

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spot on. These debates are going to go on and on until those who can't see the simplicity of it all .....

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Souness is a shit manager and a bully. End of.

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Youre a racist and thick.

End of.

[not_a_racist 0]

Lee Sharpe was on national radio recently saying that Ferguson begged him not to leave but Lee Sharpe had to leave for regular first team football. Eric Cantona is a "spikey" player who didn't conform to any rules, thats why he was sold by Howard Wilkinson. But Ferguson delt with Cantona as aspecial case (read fergusons biography), it's called man managemant, dealing with each individual on there own personality instead of saying "im the headmaster, play by my rulse or you or out, or i'll grab you by the throat and have a fight with you.

Ferguson and Souness are in different leagues because of this style of managemant.

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Doesnt really explain the other instances in Fergies book does it?

 

McGrath - an exceptional centre half sold because he couldnt behave

 

Whiteside - a very good player sold because he couldnt behave

 

Strachan- sold becasue he couldnt tow the line

 

Stam - sold because he couldnt tow the line

 

There is little doubt that we are comparing chalk and cheese but the basic premise is the same. There is ONE boss. Players need to realise that understand they have a duty to behave professionally. Not on the field. Not off the field. BOTH.

 

Comapring Cantona and Bellamy is indeed like comapring Ferguson and Souness.

[Black&White 0]

They were sold (in the first 3 instances) when Fergie brought adequate replacemants in. Stam was sold when Fergie thought ne had an adequate replacemant in Blanc. One of the biggest boozers of the lot (Robson) was kept until near retiremant because of his importance to the club.

Bellamy was sold by Souness when there was no replacemant and when the buyer was in the driving seat because of the hatred and well publicised fall out of the two.

That is total shit managemant.

[not_a_racist 0]

They were sold (in the first 3 instances) when Fergie brought adequate replacemants in. Stam was sold when Fergie thought ne had an adequate replacemant in Blanc. One of the biggest boozers of the lot (Robson) was kept until near retiremant because of his importance to the club.

Bellamy was sold by Souness when there was no replacemant and when the buyer was in the driving seat because of the hatred and well publicised fall out of the two.

That is total shit managemant.

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McGrath wasnt replaced well enough at first

Whiteside wasnt replaced well enough at first

Strachan wasnt replaced well enough at fisrt

 

Stam hasnt been replaced.

 

They ended up paying THIRTY million quid to inadequately replace him.

 

That is shit management too I suppose. If that is all that it about. It isnt though.

 

Robson was alone. His crew had gone. The culture of the club changed.

 

They won things. Big things.

 

 

there is no doubt at all that the culture of NUFC from 2003 onwards was bad. WE were rotten.

We needed to change.

Sadly we needed a manager who is clearly not easy to like and whi isnt the best on the field to sort out the tossers who couldnt behave of it.

 

We should have got someone else. Nobody wanted the job. I suspect the same players would have left though.

Edited October 22, 2005 by not_a_racist

[luckypierre 0]

not all strictly true

 

McGrath - sold equally because of his injury problems and the fact that fergie had lined up Englands most promising CB as his replacement. I know he went to be a solid performer for Villa but no one expected him to.

 

Whiteside - Again injuries played a major part on top of his drinking

 

Strachan - Personal issue between him and Ferguson. Strachan has stated that he knew his time at Man U was up the minute Fergie got the job. The fact is though that Ferguson didnt sell him until his third season in charge.

 

As much as McGrath and Whiteside where part of the drinking club so was Robson and he wasnt sold.

 

To me that shows the difference between Ferguson and Souness. Ferguson put aside his personal issues and replaced those players when it was right for the club , not his own ego. Even Man U couldn't afford those sweeping changes so he worked with what he had and replaced the players when the timing was right. McGrath, Whiteside and Strachan in 89. He didnt do a Souness. Good management all round...

 

Stam was just childish though. I wouldnt say it was a case of towing the line either. He made one embarassing ( to Ferguson) statement in his book and that was it, he was out. He was a model pro though

[not_a_racist 0]

not all strictly true

 

McGrath - sold equally because of his injury problems and the fact that fergie had lined up Englands most promising CB as his replacement. I know he went to be a solid performer for Villa but no one expected him to.

 

Whiteside - Again injuries played a major part on top of his drinking

 

Strachan - Personal issue between him and Ferguson. Strachan has stated that he knew his time at Man U was up the minute Fergie got the job. The fact is though that Ferguson didnt sell him until his third season in charge.

 

As much as McGrath and Whiteside where part of the drinking club so was Robson and he wasnt sold.

 

To me that shows the difference between Ferguson and Souness. Ferguson put aside his personal issues and replaced those players when it was right for the club , not his own ego. Even Man U couldn't afford those sweeping changes so he worked with what he had and replaced the players when the timing was right. McGrath, Whiteside and Strachan in 89. He didnt  do a Souness. Good management all round...

 

Stam was just childish though. I wouldnt say it was a case of towing the line either. He made one embarassing ( to Ferguson) statement in his book and that was it, he was out. He was a model pro though

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The last sentence sums it up though. Cross Fergie and youre out.

 

Nb: they didnt replace Remi Moses either and he went too.

 

Basically the drinkers went. Our club had very similar problems. We got shot of two staight away.

 

Man Utd got shot of more than two - look a tteam sheets not sale dates. BUT the squad then was very very different in size to those nowadays. Big changes occurred.

 

I dont doubt for a moment that the likes of Dyer will go in time.

Is his contract is there at to ensure he doesnt go next summer for free?

 

The basic analogy? Stam towed the line and he was in. He didnt and he was out.

Moses, Strachan, McGrath(always was a fantastic player), Whiteside and Robson were exceptional and they should have won more than they did when together.

 

One of the main reasons they didnt was their off the field behaviour.

[luckypierre 0]

you fail to see the difference though, same as the last time we went through this

 

Fergie eventually got shot of players who's drinking had made them worthless to the club, but he took his time. McGrath not replaced? Fergie bought both Anderson and Bruce in and then Pallister before getting rid of McGrath. Whiteside didnt need replacing because due to injuries he wasnt in the side anyway. Robson although a drinker and having his own injury problems was important enough to the club that he stayed. If McGrath was the same Im sure he would have too. Academic though. Strachan who he had a previous issue with stayed for another 2 1/2 seasons before being sold. You cant just name players who left and say they weren't replaced. Moses? How about McClair and Ince as replacements? His actions are in direct contrast to Souness's. He didnt ostrasize two important players almost immediately after taking the job.

 

There is no similarity at all to Fergusons and Souness approach to (arguably) doing a similar job. The way he has chnaged his mangerial approach to players who are important but are 'trouble' (eg Robson, Cantona) speaks for itself

 

Stam is a strange one though. Its still a mystery even to him. He was a model pro, never in trouble. His book is published which states that Ferguson tapped him up and he was gone. There were no indications that Ferguson told him not to go ahead with the book so its not a case of not towing the line.

[not_a_racist 0]

you fail to see the difference though, same as the last time we went through this

 

Fergie eventually got shot of players who's drinking had made them worthless to the club, but he took his time. McGrath not replaced? Fergie bought both Anderson and Bruce in and then Pallister before getting rid of McGrath. Whiteside didnt need replacing because due to injuries he wasnt in the side anyway. Robson although a drinker and having his own injury problems was important enough to the club that he stayed. If McGrath was the same Im sure he would have too. Academic though. Strachan who he had a previous issue with stayed for another 2 1/2 seasons before being sold. You cant just name players who left and say they weren't replaced. Moses? How about McClair and Ince as replacements? His actions are in direct contrast to Souness's. He didnt ostrasize two important players almost immediately after taking the job.

 

There is no similarity at all to Fergusons and Souness approach to (arguably) doing a similar job. The way he has chnaged his mangerial approach to players who are important but are 'trouble' (eg Robson, Cantona) speaks for itself

 

Stam is a strange one though. Its still a mystery even to him. He was a model pro, never in trouble. His book is published which states that Ferguson tapped him up and he was gone. There were no indications that Ferguson told him not to go ahead with the book so its not a case of not towing the line.

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You have repeated yourself. Stam didnt do what Fergie wanted. He went.

 

Youre positions are all over the place:

Midfield:

Moses out - Replacement? Ince wasnt out of nappies and struggled initially. He took a long while to settle. Neil Webb. Injured and pissed funnily enough.

 

Strachan. Played spordically.

 

Centre half:

McGrath. Replacement was Bruce who played with various. Pallister was called Bambi at the time. It wasnt a compliment.

Anderson was a right back NOT a centre half

 

McClair played up front for Man Utd at the time Not midfield. First 30 goal player if you recall.

 

 

So basically what you are saying is that they werent sold? They werent playing regularly either.

 

He swept them out in time. Check the team sheets though. They are there on the Man utd fan sites. These players were used infrequently. It wasnt a case of flogging them so much as not using them.

 

Souness has got shot of TWO although he did use one of them.

Bellamy and Robert. He has replaced them with Luque and Owen.

 

Answer this. How much was Webb? Ince? Pallister? McClair? Bruce?

How much did they sell Strachan, McGrath and Whiteside for?

Their value had plummeted.

 

The analogy stands. Stam simply confirms it.

 

 

Nb: Drinking had hardly made McGrath worthless. He always was exceptional. Strachan won the league within 2 seasons and was exceptional. Better than you could imagine. They were THAT good - certainly better than Man Utd had at the time. So why did they go?

Edited October 22, 2005 by not_a_racist

[luckypierre 0]

Anderson did play CB too, McClair also dropped back into midfield. I didnt mention those players individually. The point is still valid they were replaced when the time was right. When there was appropriate cover in those postions. His approach to Whiteside and McGrath was different to Robson, why? Because of his worth to the club. Performances of individuals, how long they took to settle doesnt matter. Anderson was actually Fergusons first signing, wasnt bombed out of the club and guess what? He was a drinking pal of Robson, McGrath and Whiteside

 

I'd forgot about Webb. Reinforces my point though about moving players on AFTER adequate replacements and cover had been bought.

 

It doesnt matter how often they were used, they were used. Could Souness have not used the same approach with Bellamy and Robert?

 

You cant compare Souness getting rid of two of the teams most important players , without adequate cover lined up, to Ferguson selling players 2 1/2 years after he took over. The difference is there for everyone to see , its like night and day.

 

What line did Stam not tow? He's actually a unique player in Fergusons history, its hard to tow the line when you dont know what it is.

 

I havent ever mentioned values so I dont see the point of the question.

Players who are known to be injury prone and being sold rather than bought get less in transfer fee.

 

I know what you are saying and I dont disagree that they had similar jobs to do, ( although the Man U job has its own unique pressures), Ferguson took his time, did it right and slowly moved the club forwards putting the best interests of the club before his own personal issues. Souenss hasn't done that ever. He bought the replacements after he sold the players and I'd argue there still isnt sufficient cover in those positions.

 

 

Edit: in response to your edit, McGrath's career by all accounts was coming to an end , he missed a lot of game sthrough injury and his knees were fked, the fact he defied all medical advise and played on without becoming a cripple (yet) doesnt come into it. . Strachan, like I said knew his time was up the moment Ferguson got the job, they had history. Ferguson still kept him and used him until 2 1/2 years later when he flogged him.

Edited October 22, 2005 by luckypierre

[not_a_racist 0]

Anderson did play CB too, McClair also dropped back into midfield. I didnt mention those players individually. The point is still valid they were replaced when the time was right. When there was appropriate cover in those postions. His approach to Whiteside  and McGrath was different to Robson, why? Because of his worth to the club. Performances of individuals, how long they took to settle doesnt matter.

 

I'd forgot about Webb. Reinforces my point though about moving players on AFTER adequate replacements and cover had been bought.

 

It doesnt matter how often they were used, they were used. Could Souness have not used the same approach with Bellamy and Robert?

 

You cant compare Souness getting rid of two of the teams most important players , without adequate cover lined up, to Ferguson selling players 2 1/2 years after he took over. The difference is there for everyone to see , its like night and day.

 

What line did Stam not tow? He's actually a unique player in Fergusons history, its hard to tow the line when you dont know what it is.

 

I havent ever mentioned values so I dont see the point of the question.

Players who are known to be injury prone and being sold rather than bought get less in transfer fee.

 

I know what you are saying and I dont disagree that they had similar jobs to do, ( although the Man U job has its own unique pressures),  Ferguson took his time, did it right and slowly moved the club forwards putting the best interests of the club before his own personal issues. Souenss hasn't done that ever. He bought the replacements after he sold the players and I'd argue there still isnt sufficient cover in those positions.

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Souness bought replacements when he could. Remember that there is a transfer window. Ferguson isolated the players. They DIDNT play regularly. They were VERY good players. Better than we have sold for certain.

 

Ferguson was pilloried for selling them. the replacements were judged to be inadequate.

 

The point of the question regarding value is that Ferguson isolated players. Values plummeted as a direct result. Is that good management? Its not. In Souness' or Fergusons time.

However, Bellamy used the transfer window to try his luck at coming back. He isnt welcome. The away support at Blackburn indicated that.

 

Stam went. Why? Becasue Ferguson BELIEVED he hadnt towed the line.

 

Ferguson was hammered for getting rid of players and replacing htem with those the fans felt were inferior. Sound familiar? the od ones were still at the club but all and sundry knew they had no future.

 

Strachan, Moses, Whiteside and McGrath were still at the club. the world and his wife knew they werent playing regulalry and werent wanted. Technically Butt and Robert are still at our club. Does that make souness look better or worse in time?

 

In 20 years someone will say : He bought Luque in 2005. He didnt sell Robert 'til 2006.

 

The players at Man Utd were gone. That is the point. even if technically they were still there.

 

At least we know Owen is better than Bellamy. McGrath and Strachan always were better than their direct replacements.

 

NB: Viv Anderson was BOUGHT as a right back. JJ played at left back he isnt one

 

Very similar situations but in fact Fergie probably moved quicker.

Edited October 22, 2005 by not_a_racist

[luckypierre 0]

some fair points and I like I said I can see where you're coming from but rather than reinforce Souness's actions I see the comparisson with Ferguson to show him an even less favourable light. If I recall this is where we ended last time

 

you cant compare Anderson as a CB to Jenas's performance as a LB

[not_a_racist 0]

some fair points and I like I said I can see where you're coming from but rather than reinforce Souness's actions I see the comparisson with Ferguson to show him an even less favourable light. If I recall this is where we ended last time 

 

you cant compare Anderson as a CB to Jenas's performance as a LB 

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Fair enough but Anderson was a bloody good right back. very athletic.

 

good debate though.

Ferguson quickly realised that too many of the United players were unfit, drank too much and were simply not good enough. He decided drastic changes were needed. Two of the team's few genuine stars, Paul McGrath and Norman Whiteside (who formed two-thirds of a drinking crew known as The Wild Bunch alongside England captain Bryan Robson) were sold. Other players lacking in either talent or attitude followed them.

Sounds very familiar if you substitute (their) drinking for (ours) acting like prima donnas.

 

We needed a change. The players we sold/got shot of were actually my fvourite players at various times.

Robert wasnt the same after 2003 but Bellamy was getting better on the pitch. I just got sick to death of those 2 and Dyer and Bramble pissing about off the pitch and acting like they were bigger than it in the media.

I'm not of the opinion that we need to be grateful for players. As a club we are WAY BIGGER than that.

 

WE do need a new manager though.

[Black&White 0]

Right, if there's one thing to agree on it's that we definatley do need a new manager.

[Asprilla 96]

We needed a change. The players we sold/got shot of were actually my fvourite players at various times.

Robert wasnt the same after 2003 but Bellamy was getting better on the pitch. I just got sick to death of those 2 and Dyer and Bramble pissing about off the pitch and acting like they were bigger than it in the media.

I'm not of the opinion that we need to be grateful for players. As a club we are WAY BIGGER than that.

 

WE do need a new manager though.

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There was an outrageous amount of bad discipline and I think that's worse than playing shit. It seemed like every other week there was a report of bad behaviour. It's disrespectful to the fans who pay their hard earned money.

 

Now we've hopefully got that message across lets get a manager in the same mould but who can actually motivate and win matches.

[LeazesMag 0]

They were sold (in the first 3 instances) when Fergie brought adequate replacemants in. Stam was sold when Fergie thought ne had an adequate replacemant in Blanc. One of the biggest boozers of the lot (Robson) was kept until near retiremant because of his importance to the club.

Bellamy was sold by Souness when there was no replacemant and when the buyer was in the driving seat because of the hatred and well publicised fall out of the two.

That is total shit managemant.

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Yes, that is correct, I knew there had been a player before Ferdinand but couldn't remember who it was.

 

McGrath and Whiteside were sold because they were part of a boozers club, in Fergusons book he describes how he enforced rules about drinking etc and they broke them too often. And yes, that is correct too B&W, he got his replacements in first, but continued to manage them for the good of the football club until in the meantime.

 

It is totally wrong to say that Bellamy was wrong to put himself first. Of course he did, everybody does. So does Souness by putting his ego before the good of the club. This alone should have been enough to sack Souness. Far rather a player who wants to play, and does, than one who isn't interested. I don't understand why some have this attitude, because they didn't think that of Bellamy when Bobby Robson was here.

 

EDIT. Catching up .... it is also correct to point out that Alex Ferguson sold Whiteside and McGrath because they had injury problems too. Also to point out that he may make these decisions, but carries them out at the right time for the good of the club, not to satisfy his own ego. I always thought Stam was sold for 3 reasons. 1 Because of his book 2 because he also was not so motivated to manu and 3 Simply because they had the offer they wanted and in view of the first 2 points decided it was the right time. Again, the timing was right for the club,

 

There is simply NO comparison between Souness and Ferguson. None.

Edited October 23, 2005 by LeazesMag

[skhwoody 0]

I quite like Souness, and sacking the manager puts us back another 12 months of wheeling and dealing breaking up and demoralising players. We need to stick with it and see where we are at the end of the season. If after a full season we show no improvement, and the squad have not gelled well we will see. If not lets get behind the team and try to do out part.

[Asprilla 96]

I quite like Souness, and sacking the manager puts us back another 12 months of wheeling and dealing breaking up and demoralising players.  We need to stick with it and see where we are at the end of the season.  If after a full season we show no improvement, and the squad have not gelled well we will see.  If not lets get behind the team and try to do out part.

48560[/snapback]

 

I keep flitting between this opinion and desperation that we can't give Wigan a good game.

 

To be fair Arsenal are struggling without Vieira and without Henry too they are truly average.

 

We have been without our equivalent players and to be fair, Wigan are doing ludicrously well.

[adios 717]

I keep flitting between this opinion and desperation that we can't give Wigan a good game.

 

To be fair Arsenal are struggling without Vieira and without Henry too they are truly average.

 

We have been without our equivalent players and to be fair, Wigan are doing ludicrously well.

48578[/snapback]

 

I agree with a lot of your sentiments there. There's 2 questions that are worth asking, I think. When's the last time we played good football? And the stickler, is anyone really playing good football anymore?

 

For what it's worth I'd trade points in our next league match for a better manager, I hope our summer signings (and I believe another 10m+ in January to replace Shearer) will have piqued the interest of some high quality managers.

[sammynb 3355]

I keep flitting between this opinion and desperation that we can't give Wigan a good game.

 

To be fair Arsenal are struggling without Vieira and without Henry too they are truly average.

 

We have been without our equivalent players and to be fair, Wigan are doing ludicrously well.

48578[/snapback]

 

I agree with a lot of your sentiments there. There's 2 questions that are worth asking, I think. When's the last time we played good football? And the stickler, is anyone really playing good football anymore?

 

For what it's worth I'd trade points in our next league match for a better manager, I hope our summer signings (and I believe another 10m+ in January to replace Shearer) will have piqued the interest of some high quality managers.

48691[/snapback]

To quote Alex here:

I'm not sure, all the shitty performances are blending into one.

The teams that are playing more attractive football are those fighting for survival - financially.

At the moment I'm watching up to 5 premier league games a week and teams like West Ham, Charlton even Pompey are trying to play attractive football. Norwich last season tried to play attractive football but the problem is it doesn't really work against the chelski's, pool's and bolton's who go out to stifle the game and win it on the counter attack. Souness tried it and found out the hard way that if you don't have the players to utilise for the 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation then you won't score goals.

 

Hope you're right DotBum but I can't see where another 10m is coming from. The only sellable assets the club has are players they need to keep and if you had of seen fat Freddy's face on Sunday, I don't think the pit is bottomless, he knows there is a good team in there somewhere just like the rest of us supporters.

[LeazesMag 0]

stand by for a mini sale in the summer when the reckless spending spree forced on Shepherd by Souness' actions, when we don't qualify for europe, becomes obvious to everyone