Tell me about Sunderland.....

[Rob W 0]

Monkwearmouth is in Sunderland and it was the greatest of the Northumbrian monasteries - all downhill since mind

 

Newcastle has always been more important and bigger than Sunderland - it had a castle, a wall, it has a better river and better access to the "interior"

 

The real problems are football related - there have been problems since the start of the 20C including a monster riot before WW1

[Howaythetoon 0]

The rivalry dates back centuries as already covered.

 

In the 1900s a NUFC Vs Sunderland home match was abandoned due to rioters that spilt out onto the pitch and into the City as well. Reports of up to 100,000 people involved or trying to leg it from the carry on are well documented.

 

As people, as far as I'm aware, there is no love lost. They really hate us, far more than we hate them because, well just look at our City compared to their Town, and our club compared to their club.

 

To a Mackem that would be typical Geordie arrogance but to an outsider that would be spot on. When teams play Sunderland away, their fans often come on to our message boards asking us about places to stay, drink etc. in Newcastle as they just don't fancy a night out in Sunderland. Not all of course, but a lot do. You will find threads on here of that nature probably.

 

Plus, we as a City, people and a club get a lot of positive media coverage in general where as Sunderland just don't, probably unfairly in my opinion to some extents. If you believed everything you read, Sunderland is full of racists, hooligans, kappa wearing slags, charvers and is generally a bit like Royston Vasey where as Newcastle is portrayed as a hip, trendy, happening City with the locals good "craic" and the night life superb and so on.

 

In comparison, Sunderland have nothing.

 

Yet as people we are pretty much the same, same values etc. but they generally have a massive chip on their shoulder and are a lot less welcoming to strangers in my experience. Mackems come to Newcastle everyday to shop and unless they are wearing a Sunderland top and shouting FTM 2-1 no-one bats an eyelid.

 

I've been to Sunderland outside of the match and they just don't like you being in their Town and in their face. They see a Geordie on their territory as a personal affront.

 

I used to work on a van with a mate of mine, delivering stuff and that van had 0191 the extention for Newcastle on the side of it, not to mention a few Toon stickers and we'd get pelted with stones and all kinds. Once we were refused entry to a skip from a red and white clad prick. "You need a permit". "But you're letting other vans through."

 

I've been resfued entry into pubs in Sunderland by bouncers detecting my Geordie accent wich believe it or not, give or take a few words, isn't that far removed from their accent. Although the differences are noticeble if you're a Geordie/Mackem.

 

All in all it's a healthy rivalry, a good one. It's more than football, it's about pride in oneself, ones City and ones fellow people. You have to live it to feel it.

 

It's a strange rivalry though because up until the 90s Mackems were proud to call themselves Geordies and sang "we are the Geordies" and such at Roker Park. Now you sing that you'll get a punch in the face.

 

I believe they wanted an identiy all of their own so used the term Mackem which was an original insult to the people of Sunderland given to them by Geordies. They are strange people are Mackems.

 

On a footballing issue, the two sets of fans would cheer each others team in Cup runs and against Southern teams as recent as the 70s. When we won the FA Cup in 32 Sunderland folked tuned in via radio and were in support of Newcastle, cheering the Newcastle players at the station on their way back to Newcastle Central Station from London as it crossed through Sunderland. It was the same for our Fairs Cup win in 69.

 

If Newcastle were playing away, Sunderland's gate swelled as Geordies flocked in and vice versa. My gandad used to watch Newcastle one week, Sunderland the next and he was a died in the wool Toon fan.

 

As already noted it's a far different rivalry to any in the Country. Rangers and Celtic hinges on religion. Liverpool and Everton inter-City rivalry, the same with Man Utd and Man City and many London teams.

 

With us, well, it's hard to put a finger on it really. It's a unique rivalry, a fascinating one even to an observer. Politics don't really play a part, religion certainly doesn't, football of course does, bit it dates back well before football was even imagined never mind played and it will always exist.

 

Sadly though, for me anyway, it probably means more to them now than it does for us. I mean a few of wor lot are actually hoping we get beat so Souness gets the sack. The gulf between the two Cities and clubs is so huge, a wedge has been driven through it. It's not as intense now in my opinion nor as meaningful.

 

I'm excited and can't wait but if we lose, it won't shatter my week or life. For the Mackems, you feel they esist soley to try and get one up on us, whether it be in football or outside of it.

 

The modern game also plays it's part - with the advent of Sky and the internet and the almost 24-7 coverage, there isn't a sense of the unknowing as there once was. We know Sunderland's team inside out because we watch their games live from the comfort of our homes, we know their fans inside out because we speak to them every day on forums - and vice versa.

 

I would say the derby today is a bit like taking a peep at your Christmas presents when no-one is looking the day before Christams. You can't wait to open them on Christmas day but the suspense isn't quite there, if you know what I mean.

 

Still, wouldn't miss it for the world and I hope we crush the tramps.

[Asprilla 96]

The rivalry dates back centuries as already covered. .....

 

47320[/snapback]

 

Excellent informative post.

 

Cheers!

[Renton 21614]

Good post HTT, but since when has the east coast main line passed through Sunderland????

[Howaythetoon 0]

Good post HTT, but since when has the east coast main line passed through Sunderland???? 

47326[/snapback]

 

I don't know, I just know our lads were cheered by Mackems on their way back from London following our '32 FA Cup win so I assume it was at some train station that passed through.

[manc-mag 1]

The rivalry dates back centuries as already covered.

 

In the 1900s a NUFC Vs Sunderland home match was abandoned due to rioters that spilt out onto the pitch and into the City as well. Reports of up to 100,000 people involved or trying to leg it from the carry on are well documented.

 

As people, as far as I'm aware, there is no love lost. They really hate us, far more than we hate them because, well just look at our City compared to their Town, and our club compared to their club.

 

To a Mackem that would be typical Geordie arrogance but to an outsider that would be spot on. When teams play Sunderland away, their fans often come on to our message boards asking us about places to stay, drink etc. in Newcastle as they just don't fancy a night out in Sunderland. Not all of course, but a lot do. You will find threads on here of that nature probably.

 

Plus, we as a City, people and a club get a lot of positive media coverage in general where as Sunderland just don't, probably unfairly in my opinion to some extents. If you believed everything you read, Sunderland is full of racists, hooligans, kappa wearing slags, charvers and is generally a bit like Royston Vasey where as Newcastle is portrayed as a hip, trendy, happening City with the locals good "craic" and the night life superb and so on.

 

In comparison, Sunderland have nothing.

 

Yet as people we are pretty much the same, same values etc. but they generally have a massive chip on their shoulder and are a lot less welcoming to strangers in my experience. Mackems come to Newcastle everyday to shop and unless they are wearing a Sunderland top and shouting FTM 2-1 no-one bats an eyelid.

 

I've been to Sunderland outside of the match and they just don't like you being in their Town and in their face. They see a Geordie on their territory as a personal affront. 

 

I used to work on a van with a mate of mine, delivering stuff and that van had 0191 the extention for Newcastle on the side of it, not to mention a few Toon stickers and we'd get pelted with stones and all kinds. Once we were refused entry to a skip from a red and white clad prick. "You need a permit". "But you're letting other vans through."

 

I've been resfued entry into pubs in Sunderland by bouncers detecting my Geordie accent wich believe it or not, give or take a few words, isn't that far removed from their accent. Although the differences are noticeble if you're a Geordie/Mackem.

 

All in all it's a healthy rivalry, a good one. It's more than football, it's about pride in oneself, ones City and ones fellow people. You have to live it to feel it.

 

It's a strange rivalry though because up until the 90s Mackems were proud to call themselves Geordies and sang "we are the Geordies" and such at Roker Park. Now you sing that you'll get a punch in the face.

 

I believe they wanted an identiy all of their own so used the term Mackem which was an original insult to the people of Sunderland given to them by Geordies. They are strange people are Mackems.

 

On a footballing issue, the two sets of fans would cheer each others team in Cup runs and against Southern teams as recent as the 70s. When we won the FA Cup in 32 Sunderland folked tuned in via radio and were in support of Newcastle, cheering the Newcastle players at the station on their way back to Newcastle Central Station from London as it crossed through Sunderland. It was the same for our Fairs Cup win in 69.

 

If Newcastle were playing away, Sunderland's gate swelled as Geordies flocked in and vice versa. My gandad used to watch Newcastle one week, Sunderland the next and he was a died in the wool Toon fan.

 

As already noted it's a far different rivalry to any in the Country. Rangers and Celtic hinges on religion. Liverpool and Everton inter-City rivalry, the same with Man Utd and Man City and many London teams.

 

With us, well, it's hard to put a finger on it really. It's a unique rivalry, a fascinating one even to an observer. Politics don't really play a part, religion certainly doesn't, football of course does, bit it dates back well before football was even imagined never mind played and it will always exist.

 

Sadly though, for me anyway, it probably means more to them now than it does for us. I mean a few of wor lot are actually hoping we get beat so Souness gets the sack. The gulf between the two Cities and clubs is so huge, a wedge has been driven through it. It's not as intense now in my opinion nor as meaningful.

 

I'm excited and can't wait but if we lose, it won't shatter my week or life. For the Mackems, you feel they esist soley to try and get one up on us, whether it be in football or outside of it.

 

The modern game also plays it's part - with the advent of Sky and the internet and the almost 24-7 coverage, there isn't a sense of the unknowing as there once was. We know Sunderland's team inside out because we watch their games live from the comfort of our homes, we know their fans inside out because we speak to them every day on forums - and vice versa.

 

I would say the derby today is a bit like taking a peep at your Christmas presents when no-one is looking the day before Christams. You can't wait to open them on Christmas day but the suspense isn't quite there, if you know what I mean.

 

Still, wouldn't miss it for the world and I hope we crush the tramps.

47320[/snapback]

 

A bit like how benders hijacked the word 'queer'.

[Renton 21614]

Good post HTT, but since when has the east coast main line passed through Sunderland???? 

47326[/snapback]

 

I don't know, I just know our lads were cheered by Mackems on their way back from London following our '32 FA Cup win so I assume it was at some train station that passed through.

47328[/snapback]

 

 

Must be Durham. Mackems love to claim Durham belongs to them. Bullshit, its 50/50.

[k4t0 0]

If anything the mackems would belong to their half of Durham.

 

A Far Superior City

[ChocChip 0]

Thankyou HTT. Eye opening.

 

What was the 1st Tyne-Wear derby?

 

Have Sunderland ever been the top team in the area? i.e. champions when NUFC was struggling or cup winners when NUFC got dumped out early (when the FA cup meant more)?

[Renton 21614]

Thankyou HTT. Eye opening.

 

What was the 1st Tyne-Wear derby?

 

Have Sunderland ever been the top team in the area? i.e. champions when NUFC was struggling or cup winners when NUFC got dumped out early (when the FA cup meant more)?

47337[/snapback]

 

Probably.

 

Interesting snippet. Sunderland's highest ever league win was against us when they beat us 9-1. Can't think of the exact year, but it was around 1900 I think. That same year Newcastle went on to win the league.

[Thompson 0]

I've just been informed by a Sunderland fan that Monkseaton isnt in the North East, he must have been a Geography major like

[k4t0 0]

Just to answer two of chochips other questions...

 

 

yes, scottish borders once went down to york, not for very long though I believe.

 

And I would say we look more celtic than white devils, but its just the usual mix of backgrounds I suppose, ethnic minorities are minorities with not many asian or black communities.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Thankyou HTT. Eye opening.

 

What was the 1st Tyne-Wear derby?

 

Have Sunderland ever been the top team in the area? i.e. champions when NUFC was struggling or cup winners when NUFC got dumped out early (when the FA cup meant more)?

47337[/snapback]

 

The first ever Tyne-Wear Derby in official League terms was way back in 1898, 6 years after Newcastle United were formed following a merger between Newcastle West End and Newcastle East End.

 

We won that match 3-2 at Roker Park in front of what was then, considered a huge crowd of 25,000 fans.

 

Bear in mind it would have almost certainly have been much bigger but for tax purposes and because visiting sides collected 15% of all gate reciepts, attendance figures were always fiddled. I've read reports where 100,000 fans have attended the Tyne-Wear derby at both grounds.

 

We have the better overall record; P: 135; W: 48; D: 44; L: 43

 

Some stats/info:

 

The Tyne-Wear Derby has been played a total of 135 times in all competitions with Newcastle marginally having the upper hand having won 5 more than Sunderland. In total there has been 401 goals scored, Newcastle scoring 201 of them and of the 44 draws, only 9 of them have ended goalless.

 

The highest number of goals scored in a single match stands at 10 when the Mackems beat us 9-1 at St. James' Park back in 1908. We had the last laugh though, ending the Season as League Champions. That results stands as their record win in the Derby.

 

Biggest home win: 6-1 (1920-21

Biggest away win: 6-1 (1955-56)

Biggest home loss: 9-1 (1908-09)

Biggest away loss: 5-0 (1930-31)

Highest scoring home draw: 2-2 (1949-50)

Highest scoring away draw: 3-3 (1967-68)

Highest home attendance: *67,211 (1926-27)

Highest away attendance: *68,004 (1949-50)

Number of NUFC clean sheets: 30

Number of SAFC clean sheets: 30

Longest unbeaten run: 9 games (1967-78)

Longest winless run: 7 games (1957-63)

Consecutive wins: 4 games (1992-96)

Consecutive losses: 3 games (1922-23, 1904-05)

Consecutive draws: 4 games (1985-90)

Number of doubles: 9 (2002-03, 1992-93, 1956-57, 1955-56, 1920-21, 1913-14, 1911-12, 1909-10, 1899-00)

 

*Dubious to say the least.

 

Have Sunderland ever been on top? Aye, they actually have 6 League Titles to our 4 and were once known as the bank of England for spending more money on players and wages than any other club.

 

They, like us, despite the rivalry, are a big traditional club with a large following... which has declined in recent years.

 

During the 70s-early-90s there was little to separate the two clubs. Both were riddled with unambitious chairman, decaying satdiums and were both neck and necdk so to speak. Then the 90s come, Sir John Hall, Kevin Keegan and the Premiership and since then, well we have shot off in one way and they haven't budged, when they have (Stadium of Light, flirtation with the Premiership three times) they have always taken one step back (relegation three times etc.)

 

While the two may not be so far off points wise, they just can't compete. They have no European record where as we have played over 100 games in Europe, with only Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal playing more European games than we have in recent years.

 

Budget wise, they can not compete. Attracting players they will never be able to compete and bums on seats, well they can't fill their 48,000 capacity stadium.

 

Also, throughout the history of both club's, Newcastle have always produced some of the country's finest talents where as they haven't produced anyone of note. None that I can recall anyway.

 

Both are footballing mad regions yet we have given the game some of it's greatest players, which of course put us on the footballing map from the off in many ways and ever since they have been playing catch up.

 

They live in our shadow in every way and that's being kind. They know it even if they won't admit it, this gives them that massive chip and insecurity complex that rules their lives like a cold grip and holds their club back like a ball and chairn.

 

The height of their ambition while they were riding 'high' up in 7th while we were down in mid-table was to have one more seat than we have. And they haven't even managed that and even if they did, it would just be one more empty seat today.

 

They are like a tall midget. Odd.

Edited October 19, 2005 by Howaythetoon

[Greg 6]

It came from the Civil war of the late 1600's, Newcastle and Sunderland ended up on opposite sides and the main rivialry was between the two ports.

[Rob W 0]

"If you believed everything you read, Sunderland is full of racists, hooligans, kappa wearing slags, charvers and is generally a bit like Royston Vasey where as Newcastle is portrayed as a hip, trendy, happening City with the locals good "craic" and the night life superb and so on"

 

My Mam would have said you were being too generous HTT

[Optimistic Nut 145]

I'm sure one of the Mackems will be on their sewpa dewpa compewta any moment to tell us their views.

[Howaythetoon 0]

It came from the Civil war of the late 1600's, Newcastle and Sunderland ended up on opposite sides and the main rivialry was between the two ports.

47352[/snapback]

 

Is correct. I've also read how groups of blokes with spades and stucks would march into each other's Cities and have a pagger on a regular basis, a bit like a modern day Hooligan meet-up.

 

Like I said it's a fascinating rivalry with so many different aspects to it and why and how it came about.

 

People talk about the Old Firm derby, the Milan derby and the Real/Barca games but if you want a proper derby, then the Tyne-Wear really is something unique.

 

From what I've read the football rivalry was friendly to start out with, as if both sets of people downed weapons just for the match then resumed battle after the game.

 

Then it become a football rivalry and now it's a free for all, it's a City thing, a work thing, a family thing even (don't inter-breed man...), a people thing, a business thing, and you could maybe argue a politics thing as well with Sunderland council still smarting over the Metro and such.

 

I know I'm biased, but it pisses all over others in my opinion.

 

Also, and I'll be slated for this no doubt, but unless you are a Geordie/Mackem or have Geordie/Mackem blood or were brought up in this envornment from an early age, I'm sorry but the derby day for you is just another match because you'll never feel what I feel or what my Mackem counterpart will and that's not me being arrogant or boastful, it's the truth I'm afraid.

 

You'll want to win badly more than against other sides of course, you'll share that but not that belly churning ache that sits in your stomach like a fuck off brick.

 

And in a way, that's the way it should be because if football wasn't a regional thing, well it wouldn't be the game it is would it?

[manc-mag 1]

It came from the Civil war of the late 1600's, Newcastle and Sunderland ended up on opposite sides and the main rivialry was between the two ports.

47352[/snapback]

 

Is correct. I've also read how groups of blokes with spades and stucks would march into each other's Cities and have a pagger on a regular basis, a bit like a modern day Hooligan meet-up.

 

Like I said it's a fascinating rivalry with so many different aspects to it and why and how it came about.

 

People talk about the Old Firm derby, the Milan derby and the Real/Barca games but if you want a proper derby, then the Tyne-Wear really is something unique.

 

From what I've read the football rivalry was friendly to start out with, as if both sets of people downed weapons just for the match then resumed battle after the game.

 

Then it become a football rivalry and now it's a free for all, it's a City thing, a work thing, a family thing even (don't inter-breed man...), a people thing, a business thing, and you could maybe argue a politics thing as well with Sunderland council still smarting over the Metro and such.

 

I know I'm biased, but it pisses all over others in my opinion.

 

Also, and I'll be slated for this no doubt, but unless you are a Geordie/Mackem or have Geordie/Mackem blood or were brought up in this envornment from an early age, I'm sorry but the derby day for you is just another match because you'll never feel what I feel or what my Mackem counterpart will and that's not me being arrogant or boastful, it's the truth I'm afraid.

 

You'll want to win badly more than against other sides of course, you'll share that but not that belly churning ache that sits in your stomach like a fuck off brick.

 

And in a way, that's the way it should be because if football wasn't a regional thing, well it wouldn't be the game it is would it?

47358[/snapback]

 

 

Some good points there HTT, mate. From a personal viewpoint it's nowt like the Manc derby at all. It's definitely far more fervent with completely different dynamics to the nature of the rivalry. If anything I'd say it was more like the Man utd/Liverpool fixture, only obviously with a much longer history.

[Rob W 0]

rangers celtic without religion

[manc-mag 1]

rangers celtic without religion

47361[/snapback]

 

To be honest I dont think you can honestly say what you'd be left with in that fixture if you removed the religious element.

[Renton 21614]

rangers celtic without religion

47361[/snapback]

 

To be honest I dont think you can honestly say what you'd be left with in that fixture if you removed the religious element.

47365[/snapback]

 

St Mirren vs Partick probably.

[manc-mag 1]

rangers celtic without religion

47361[/snapback]

 

To be honest I dont think you can honestly say what you'd be left with in that fixture if you removed the religious element.

47365[/snapback]

 

St Mirren vs Partick probably.

47368[/snapback]

 

[ChocChip 0]

rangers celtic without religion

47361[/snapback]

 

To be honest I dont think you can honestly say what you'd be left with in that fixture if you removed the religious element.

47365[/snapback]

 

 

I can honestly say i could never feel the same about the Tyne-Wear derby so i won't try and fake it

 

Hope we win because it's 3 points, also no one down likes them for two simple reasons, they're dirty and play shiiiiiiite football.

 

I met a Mackem fan once, thoroughly nice fella who was deeply perturbed i supported NUFC, they beat us just after i met him but i could tell he didn't get much out of ribbing me about it 'cause i clearly couldn't give a f**k.

[shakermaker 0]

the independent a while back ran a tyne -wear derby story with the reporter starting off by stating the derbies he's been to,boca-river,glasgow,istanbul,manchester,liverpool,and he said "but you'll not get worse than this for pure spite and hatred"..

[Ketsbaia 0]

A few years back one of the Football magazines ran a top ten derbys article and NUFC-SAFC was somewhere near the top.