ChocChip 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What is the basis of the rivalry? To be controversial, you guys sound practically identical to me. Do the 2 cities have similar histories? Did you used to have similar economies? I understand Newcastle is far more developed now. Do you think you have more in common culturally than that that actually differs? Do you really have more in common with each other when you think about it as compared to Geordies and another city/town? Is it genuine hatred or friendly rivalry? Was the rivalry forgotten during the WW11 and did the 2 cities help each other? It always seems to me that the more similar 2 groups of people are, the more fanatical the opposing sides i.e. protestants & catholics or sunni's & shia's. To outsiders it's hard to see how these people can't get along when so much of their lives and behaviour is nearly identical and they get ferverent over a few minor differences, can this be applied to the Newcastle - Sunderland divide? Bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What is the basis of the rivalry? To be controversial, you guys sound practically identical to me. Do the 2 cities have similar histories? Did you used to have similar economies? I understand Newcastle is far more developed now. Do you think you have more in common culturally than that that actually differs? Do you really have more in common with each other when you think about it as compared to Geordies and another city/town? Is it genuine hatred or friendly rivalry? Was the rivalry forgotten during the WW11 and did the 2 cities help each other? It always seems to me that the more similar 2 groups of people are, the more fanatical the opposing sides i.e. protestants & catholics or sunni's & shia's. To outsiders it's hard to see how these people can't get along when so much of their lives and behaviour is nearly identical and they get ferverent over a few minor differences, can this be applied to the Newcastle - Sunderland divide? Bring it on! 47251[/snapback] Agreed. Basically identical mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What is the basis of the rivalry? To be controversial, you guys sound practically identical to me. Do the 2 cities have similar histories? Did you used to have similar economies? I understand Newcastle is far more developed now. Do you think you have more in common culturally than that that actually differs? Do you really have more in common with each other when you think about it as compared to Geordies and another city/town? Is it genuine hatred or friendly rivalry? Was the rivalry forgotten during the WW11 and did the 2 cities help each other? It always seems to me that the more similar 2 groups of people are, the more fanatical the opposing sides i.e. protestants & catholics or sunni's & shia's. To outsiders it's hard to see how these people can't get along when so much of their lives and behaviour is nearly identical and they get ferverent over a few minor differences, can this be applied to the Newcastle - Sunderland divide? Bring it on! 47251[/snapback] Agreed. Basically identical mate. 47256[/snapback] That's coming from a half-mackem too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What is the basis of the rivalry? To be controversial, you guys sound practically identical to me. Do the 2 cities have similar histories? Did you used to have similar economies? I understand Newcastle is far more developed now. Do you think you have more in common culturally than that that actually differs? Do you really have more in common with each other when you think about it as compared to Geordies and another city/town? Is it genuine hatred or friendly rivalry? Was the rivalry forgotten during the WW11 and did the 2 cities help each other? It always seems to me that the more similar 2 groups of people are, the more fanatical the opposing sides i.e. protestants & catholics or sunni's & shia's. To outsiders it's hard to see how these people can't get along when so much of their lives and behaviour is nearly identical and they get ferverent over a few minor differences, can this be applied to the Newcastle - Sunderland divide? Bring it on! 47251[/snapback] Agreed. Basically identical mate. 47256[/snapback] Who is this Choc Chip fellow and why does he not know they are a bunch of sad bitter bastards that are jealous as fuck because they were born on the wrong side of the Tyne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 What is the basis of the rivalry? To be controversial, you guys sound practically identical to me. Do the 2 cities have similar histories? Did you used to have similar economies? I understand Newcastle is far more developed now. Do you think you have more in common culturally than that that actually differs? Do you really have more in common with each other when you think about it as compared to Geordies and another city/town? Is it genuine hatred or friendly rivalry? Was the rivalry forgotten during the WW11 and did the 2 cities help each other? It always seems to me that the more similar 2 groups of people are, the more fanatical the opposing sides i.e. protestants & catholics or sunni's & shia's. To outsiders it's hard to see how these people can't get along when so much of their lives and behaviour is nearly identical and they get ferverent over a few minor differences, can this be applied to the Newcastle - Sunderland divide? Bring it on! 47251[/snapback] Agreed. Basically identical mate. 47256[/snapback] Who is this Choc Chip fellow and why does he not know they are a bunch of sad bitter bastards that are jealous as fuck because they were born on the wrong side of the Tyne? 47260[/snapback] He's from down south somewhere. Darlington I think he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 He's from down south somewhere. Darlington I think he said. 47264[/snapback] Cockney bastard. No, but in all seriousness, there is no fundamental difference between us and but for the grace of God any of us could have been born a mackem. However, there shit "city" (really a town) and football club, along with those hideous deck chair stripes, does make them a bit bitter, quite understandibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I believe people from Sunderland have difficulty pronouncing the word "scooter". Other than that...I dunno....Newcastle is more glamourous though (but probably not as glamourous as Biarritz or Monte Carlo obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I believe people from Sunderland have difficulty pronouncing the word "scooter". Other than that...I dunno....Newcastle is more glamourous though (but probably not as glamourous as Biarritz or Monte Carlo obviously) 47270[/snapback] Whitley Bay is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I believe people from Sunderland have difficulty pronouncing the word "scooter". Other than that...I dunno....Newcastle is more glamourous though (but probably not as glamourous as Biarritz or Monte Carlo obviously) 47270[/snapback] "Cooker" causes the odd problem too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4378 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. Edited October 19, 2005 by NJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_NUFC 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 (edited) The rivalry goes beyond football. Do the Cities have similar histories? Nope. Newcastle: Established in Roman times as the fort of Pons Aelius on Hadrians Wall. Later established as 'Novum Castellum' by the Normans and a key fort and town in England's East coast defensive flank, and also the Feudal lord of Newcastle bing the Monarch of England themselves, meaning that the Royal Court was often held in Newcastle, this lasted until the late 1600s. And up until the same time, Newcastle was a huge garrison town for the English army, due to the frequent wars with Scotland. In Pre-Industrial times, it was one of England's most important cities (after London and Bristol) for trade - particularly in Coal as Newcastle was the centre of the first coal mining in the world. Newcastle companies and merchants established many contacts and trading posts within the Hanseatic League. Many of the English cities and towns which were important before the industrial revolution lost their importance with the emergence of industry. Newcastle was one of the few that didn't and went onto thrive, with Tyneside becoming a hub for railways, coal mining, shipbuilding and other heavy industry. Up until the 1960s, Tyneside produced more ships than the entire United States put together. Newcastle (and Sunderland as well for that matter) was extremely important during WWII for Britain's war effort with the railways, shipping, coal mining, shipbuilding. Parson's produced Turbines and Engines, whilst Armstrong Vickers manufactured all sorts of Weapons, Tanks, Aircraft, Military vehicles, munitions etc, and crucially - unlike other areas of hevy industry, it was difficult for the Luftwaffe to bomb as their bases in Norway, Denmark, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France were all too far away to make effective bombing raids. Therefore the bombers only spent short periods of time before they had to return, meaning that Newcastle got through reletively unscathed. The war related deaths in Newcastle for the whole of WWII was just 144. Sunderland was very much a product of the Industrial Revolution. Before that it was nothing more than a village. The fact that the main industries in and around both Tyneside and Wearside were the same sort of things - Shipbuilding, mining, general heavy industry - and that they are both close together is part of what made the rivalry. Also, during the Jacobite rebellion, Newcastle was Hannoverian and Sunderland Jacobean. Do we have more in common culturally? We share a lot of things in common culturally, but in other ways we are different - Newcastle is a City, it has been for around a thousand years, and it feels like one. Sunderland is a city in name only because the Queen said so in 1992. It looks and feels like a town rather than a city. It doesn't really have the basic things that most cities have, like a Cathedral (Newcastle has 2) or a mainline railway station or an airport. Hatred or Friendly rivlary? I can't speak for everyone, but for me its sort of both and none. I hate anything to do with SAFC, the site of red and white stripes makes my skin crawl, but in an another way, I don't obsess about hating Sunderland (like a lot of Mackems are obsessed with hating Newcastle). For the most part, I ignore them because why waste energy hating them? As far as Sunderland fans are concerned, I know quite a few and to be honest I've got on well with the majority. Most of the ones I know are decent, nice people who I'll happily spend the time of day with and things. On the subject of football, I'll take the piss and they'll take the piss back. I'm not going to smack someone for being a Sunderland fan, because as much as I hate SAFC, that's their team, just like NUFC is mine. But as far as friendly rivalry and the opinion of a few deranged lunatics and the local media who go along with the lets hope all the North East teams do well, blah de blah de blah - bollocks. Never gonna happen. Edited October 19, 2005 by Tom_NUFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] A lot of mackems have a genuine hatred for the city of Newcastle and their inhabitants per se, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_NUFC 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] The merits of Eldon Square v The Bridges - that's another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 My 92 year old next door neighbour always wants Sunderland to do well as well as all local teams but he supports Newcastle first and foremost. I must say I don't particularly like animosity in football, I just want us to beat whoever we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Still at least Newcastle has a cinema. I always found it funny that Sunderland didnt have one til recently. How can any self respecting proclaimer of mackem civic standards have any come back from that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4378 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Their problem with the Airport is twofold - As it was paid for largely by Tyne & Wear Council they reckon they paid for something that is too far away (doesn't stop them polluting it with their deckchair shirts every summer) and also that technically its in Wolisingham, Northumberland and not Newcastle so shouldn't be called that. Petty bastards? no.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Still at least Newcastle has a cinema. I always found it funny that Sunderland didnt have one til recently. How can any self respecting proclaimer of mackem civic standards have any come back from that?! 47280[/snapback] What's up with it like? In the past two years I have flown to Dublin, Tenerife, Nice, Milan, London, Paris, Berlin, Barcelona, Malaga and probably quite a few other places from it. Beats the hell out of travelling to Manchester, and it is on the Metro. And flights to New York are starting shortly I hear. Also delays are usually minmal because there is no congestion. Nice little airport tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Their problem with the Airport is twofold - As it was paid for largely by Tyne & Wear Council they reckon they paid for something that is too far away (doesn't stop them polluting it with their deckchair shirts every summer) and also that technically its in Wolisingham, Northumberland and not Newcastle so shouldn't be called that. Petty bastards? no.... 47282[/snapback] To be fair, I think there are very few cities who have 'their' airports slap bang in their town centre. Most are out of town for very obvious reasons of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Still at least Newcastle has a cinema. I always found it funny that Sunderland didnt have one til recently. How can any self respecting proclaimer of mackem civic standards have any come back from that?! 47280[/snapback] What's up with it like? In the past two years I have flown to Dublin, Tenerife, Nice, Milan, London, Paris, Berlin, Barcelona, Malaga and probably quite a few other places from it. Beats the hell out of travelling to Manchester, and it is on the Metro. And flights to New York are starting shortly I hear. Also delays are usually minmal because there is no congestion. Nice little airport tbh. 47284[/snapback] Fastest growing airport in Europe IIRC. I have a friendly rivalry with the majority of Mackems I know. Nothing more than gentle ribbing most of the time and they are all quite down to earth. I have known Mackems that do have chips on their shoulder and now I don't waste time on these people because you usually find that those like that spend more of their time hating us than supporting their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 'English' people tend to be a mix of all sorts but i'm led to believe, due to the proximity of Lindesfarne, that more than usual of the blond haired, blue eyed white devils make up your populace, can the same be said of Sunderland? My history is really rocky here so no extra offence intended were the people of Newcastle and Sunderland involved in the Jarrow march? Was it for the whole region? As your industries were so similar, were you similarly affected by Thatchers attitude to British industry? Did you feel unfairly treated together or was there no sense of solidarity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I've only ever heard/read so called "real" reasons for the rivalry from the Sunderland side. Crap about the civil war when Newcastle was royalist and Sunderland Cromwellian mainly due to economic reasons. I've always described it as a pure football rivalry - there is no trivial shit like religion or politics to get in the way. I forgot to mention they have a HUGE chip on their shoulders about the recent development and investment in Newcastle/Gateshead. You can also mention things like the Metro and the Arport and get huge bites. 47274[/snapback] Newcastle airport aint much cop though tbh. Still at least Newcastle has a cinema. I always found it funny that Sunderland didnt have one til recently. How can any self respecting proclaimer of mackem civic standards have any come back from that?! 47280[/snapback] What's up with it like? In the past two years I have flown to Dublin, Tenerife, Nice, Milan, London, Paris, Berlin, Barcelona, Malaga and probably quite a few other places from it. Beats the hell out of travelling to Manchester, and it is on the Metro. And flights to New York are starting shortly I hear. Also delays are usually minmal because there is no congestion. Nice little airport tbh. 47284[/snapback] Chill out Rentboy! That sounded like a chip on a shoulder of mackem proprtions! Nah, just having a bit civic pride laugh 'n carry on. The fact it's starting to do long haul American flights is a big development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Were the Mackems also once Scottish as i'm told the Geordies were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 'English' people tend to be a mix of all sorts but i'm led to believe, due to the proximity of Lindesfarne, that more than usual of the blond haired, blue eyed white devils make up your populace, can the same be said of Sunderland? My history is really rocky here so no extra offence intended were the people of Newcastle and Sunderland involved in the Jarrow march? Was it for the whole region? As your industries were so similar, were you similarly affected by Thatchers attitude to British industry? Did you feel unfairly treated together or was there no sense of solidarity? 47290[/snapback] It's a football thing pure and simple. In my experience though it's definitely a greater rivalry than the Man City/Man Utd or Liverpool/Everton equivalent. The main difference is that they are two distinct 'cities' (if you can accept Sunderland is a city without laughing til your arse bleeds) whereas that isnt the case with the aforementioned Scouse and Manc models. The main difference is with those teams its very very normal for families to have brothers sons grandsons mothers etc etc who are blue and red so although there is a rivalry you're much less likely to 'hate' someone for their allegiance if your own family members/friends have a similar faith. Also in terms of identity, the same people identify themselves with the same cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 When was the 1st Tyne-Wear derby? Have Sunderland ever been the top team in the north-east? Did more players used to play for both clubs 'in the old days?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k4t0 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 One of the things I find odd is the towns that surround the two cities. I am from Hartlepool, we are on the border of Durham and Teeside really, now.... No one really supports the smoggies, its a divide between Nufc and sunderland with the majority supporting Nufc. I rarely go to sunderland and only go near it when I am on my way to Newcastle or Durham, it simply has nothing to offer apart from an airshow once a year. Hartlepool has more going for it. How it can be a city I dont understand, Durham and Newcastle are both Great cities in the North east, no other towns come close to them for me or a lot of the people who live in the north east. Most People from hartlepool consider themselves as being from County Durham, we used to be Durhams principal port, why didnt they choose sunderland? Because its shite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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