Israel continues its merciless pounding of the defenceless.

[Park Life 71]

Israeli soldiers smash up house and mother killed. Watch before UTube deletes.

Edited January 7, 2009 by Park Life

[FaustinoSaspirella 0]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/interna...s-200812291481/

[Guest Stevie]

Did anyone watch the BBC tonight they're so fuckin biased. I know the jews are the main cunts in this thing but their reporter said something like "So here we are on the fifth day of this battle 690 Palestinians have been murdered and 10 Israeli's have died." Oh dear. BBC pride themselves on being neutral too.

[DanTheMan 0]

Did anyone watch the BBC tonight they're so fuckin biased. I know the jews are the main cunts in this thing but their reporter said something like "So here we are on the fifth day of this battle 690 Palestinians have been murdered and 10 Israeli's have died." Oh dear. BBC pride themselves on being neutral too.

 

It's the facts though. What do you want them to say? You have to keep people updated about casualty figures, if that portrays Israel in a bad light its their own fault.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Chavez - the only sane person in a mad, mad world

 

I also don't buy Israel's "But they're hiding amongst civilians!" argument. As far as I know my MP lives in a house which is located in a street full of other houses. If we were to go to war with France and they bombed my MPs house while she was in it, taking out half the street with it then I don't think that is justified in any way. Oh, and there's also the issue that the Gaza Strip is massively overcrowded meaning that it's virtually impossible for Hamas fighters to go and stand out the way of everyone while they get bombed.

 

Israeli rhetoric makes it sound as if Hamas are strapping children to them and daring the IDF to have a pop. Call me a sceptic but I doubt that's the case. Personally, I don't believe a word they're saying since they seem to lie to the world every time they get into a conflict in either the West Bank or Gaza, especially as Israel has been furiously oiling it's PR machine for weeks and months before this whole situation kicked off. Coincidence?

[blaugrana909 0]

Did anyone watch the BBC tonight they're so fuckin biased. I know the jews are the main cunts in this thing but their reporter said something like "So here we are on the fifth day of this battle 690 Palestinians have been murdered and 10 Israeli's have died." Oh dear. BBC pride themselves on being neutral too.

 

How is that biased? What do you want them to say? They should pride themselves on being neutral because out of all the news sources out there, they are consistently the most fair and unbiased, at least when it comes to int'l conflicts.

[blaugrana909 0]

Some issues that haven't been discussed yet.

 

1.) Hamas are in no way angels or saviors of Palestine. The have launched 5000-7000 rockets on Israel in the last 10 years. How many Israelis have these rockets killed? Less than 20. In one week, Israel has killed over 600 Palestinians, wounding close to 3000. How is that even remotely proportionate! 20 killed in 10 years, 600 killed in one week. Pathetic and unnecessary display of force by the Israelis.

 

2.) The UN school that was bombed by Israel was the only safe zone in the entire city of Gaza. These UN shelters are clearly marked and the exact GPS locations have been provided to the Israeli Occupation Force. Despite that, they still bombed it - objective probably being to further make the Gazans feel helpless even more than they already do. Then they come up with some joke of a lie that they were being fired at from there. You have UN representatives working at these shelters coming out now and vehemently denying that any such fire took place. And not only was this done at 1 school, not only at 2, but at three UN shelters!!!!! When this is over, Israeli military leaders should be tried for war crimes.

 

3.) Let's not forget that this last ceasefire was violated by Israel, not by Hamas. This is not just my opinion, this is a fact verified by most major news sources. Even the American media, which is very pro-Israel, has reported that the ceasefire was violated by Israel.

 

4.) Before this conflict started, Israel was already trying the create a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Arab diet is very dependent on bread, and before this conflict started, the UN agency responsible for distributing wheat in the area was warning that they are about to run out of wheat. Requests by the Palestinians to the Israelis to improve this situation were ignored. Furthermore, the Israelis control the water supply to Gaza and even being faced with a water shortage in the area, they refused to increase supply. These are barbaric acts, and no peace can be established if Israel continues to treat the Palestinians this way.

 

Finally, check out this article by Robert Fisk in The Independent. It's very well written and makes great points, and I especially agree about the issue where he talks about the war crimes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...sk-1230046.html

Edited January 8, 2009 by blaugrana909

[acrossthepond 877]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

[ewerk 30610]

Lebanon getting involved in the fun and games now.

[Guest alex]

Did anyone watch the BBC tonight they're so fuckin biased. I know the jews are the main cunts in this thing but their reporter said something like "So here we are on the fifth day of this battle 690 Palestinians have been murdered and 10 Israeli's have died." Oh dear. BBC pride themselves on being neutral too.

 

It's the facts though. What do you want them to say? You have to keep people updated about casualty figures, if that portrays Israel in a bad light its their own fault.

It's obvious what he meant isn't it? The use of the word 'murder' applied to only one side, hence the bias.

[Fop 1]

Did anyone watch the BBC tonight they're so fuckin biased. I know the jews are the main cunts in this thing but their reporter said something like "So here we are on the fifth day of this battle 690 Palestinians have been murdered and 10 Israeli's have died." Oh dear. BBC pride themselves on being neutral too.

 

It's the facts though. What do you want them to say? You have to keep people updated about casualty figures, if that portrays Israel in a bad light its their own fault.

It's obvious what he meant isn't it? The use of the word 'murder' applied to only one side, hence the bias.

 

 

Generally the BBC is pretty ok with coverage, but in some cases (and "Palestine" is one of them) they are completely biased, for quiet understandable reasons perhaps, but biased just the same.

 

(the BBC are very careful about their language, to the point of not calling terrorists "terrorists" , if it's in there it is most definitely intended to be in there)

 

But then that's the problem with the whole conflict (and the level much of the conflict is actually fought), it's an emotional one.

 

 

And it will never be "solved" until it is not.

[Fop 1]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

 

Ironically you're basically saying what I have said, only you're living in "strawberry fields" if you think either side will do what is needed to find a rough peace any time soon (ceasefires for rearming don't count).

 

Israel finds itself still under attack after some pretty massive recent concessions - whether anyone agrees they were "enough" is irrelevant (although Fatah more or less did agree), politically Israel can only submit so much after that they "have" to fight.

 

Hamas has found itself undermined and weakened not by military might, but because they actions have indirectly cut off much Western financial aid to the area and hate is hard to sustain without money and food, their only real recourse is to start a war and hope for a Hezbollah style propaganda victory (highly unlikely really, given the massive differences in terrain and what Israel "needs" to do). There's no margin for them in peace.

 

 

 

 

 

Realistically it would need an IRA/USA moment to stop things any time soon, that is for other countries to stop Hamas's weapon supply (although given how many of their rockets are made that might be tricky). But that is very unlikely to happen, much more unlikely than the USA completely cutting Israel free in fact.

[Park Life 71]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

 

The reason they continue to try and fight back is cause Israel is trying to suffocate them and starve them. They have limited access to water (just trucks sometimes), inability to travel, food shortages, money issues and on and on...UN is joke.

[blaugrana909 0]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

 

The reason they continue to try and fight back is cause Israel is trying to suffocate them and starve them. They have limited access to water (just trucks sometimes), inability to travel, food shortages, money issues and on and on...UN is joke.

 

This fact is underreported time and again. Israel was trying to create a humanitarian crisis long before this military intervention was started. How can they say they want peace and security on one hand and on the other deny those same people basic food and water? Destroying thousands of families and in the process, instilling deep hatred of Israel and West into the hearts of the survivors. The UN is useless because the US makes it useless. They veto any vote by the security council to raise even a finger against israel. However, if you read the comments of Sarkozy and leaders of other countries on the security council, you can sense that this might change. The frustration with the US and israel is tangible, and I hope that some serious changes are made to the UN so that it can once again be a powerful international force and not just a helpless puppet with no ability to take actions.

[blaugrana909 0]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

 

Ironically you're basically saying what I have said, only you're living in "strawberry fields" if you think either side will do what is needed to find a rough peace any time soon (ceasefires for rearming don't count).

 

Israel finds itself still under attack after some pretty massive recent concessions - whether anyone agrees they were "enough" is irrelevant (although Fatah more or less did agree), politically Israel can only submit so much after that they "have" to fight.

 

Hamas has found itself undermined and weakened not by military might, but because they actions have indirectly cut off much Western financial aid to the area and hate is hard to sustain without money and food, their only real recourse is to start a war and hope for a Hezbollah style propaganda victory (highly unlikely really, given the massive differences in terrain and what Israel "needs" to do). There's no margin for them in peace.

 

 

 

 

 

Realistically it would need an IRA/USA moment to stop things any time soon, that is for other countries to stop Hamas's weapon supply (although given how many of their rockets are made that might be tricky). But that is very unlikely to happen, much more unlikely than the USA completely cutting Israel free in fact.

 

 

Not sure how you can hold these views and wake up in the morning and consider yourself a decent human being. If someone slaps you in the face, you don't tie them down, grab a chainsaw, and saw off their arms and legs. 10 years of rocket attacks killing 20 Israelis does not justify a military action that has killed 600 people, many of them civilians, and wounded over 3000!!! I don't care how terrible Hamas is, this action is indefensible and Israel should be tried for war crimes after this is over. I'm sick of the world giving Israel the benefit of the doubt just because of what Jews suffered in Europe. That does not put them above the Geneva convention and it's time the world decides enough is enough, condemns Israel, and tries the leaders responsible for the war crimes committed in these operations in international courts.

[Guest alex]

Agree with that in the main. America has the power as well. They're the ones providing Israel with billions of dollars of aid every year. I don't know if they have the political will though.

[DanTheMan 0]

Israel knows that the USA electorate wouldn't allow the government to oppose them though, it's so intertwined. Israel has so much more power over the USA than it used to in the 60s and 70s.

[Fop 1]

Some views posted here are a little too 'strawberry fields forever' if you know what I mean, Parky on one side and Fop on the other. (No surprise there on either count )

 

Both sides are responsible for this, just like they have been since the first intifada. Before then the Palestinians at least had the excuse that the other Arab states had abandoned them and they had nobody to represent them. But they've got government (after a fashion) now and the same problems continue. If Hamas are ever going to get realistic about a Palestinian state, they have got to lay down the guns eventually.

 

But the Israeli response here borders on lunacy. Imagine if the roles were reversed...we'd hear nothing but "terrorists" "massacre" "brutal murder" instead of these placid, sanitised terms such as "ground operation" "surgical air strike" "self-defence" etc. In the end - and this is what the Israelis, who consistently fail to learn from their mistakes, don't realise - Hamas will only benefit from this overblown retaliation, the same way Hizbullah did in Lebanon.

 

As for the UN schools, this shouldn't surprise anyone, Israel was created by the UN but since then has done nothing but give them a two-fingered salute.

 

Ironically you're basically saying what I have said, only you're living in "strawberry fields" if you think either side will do what is needed to find a rough peace any time soon (ceasefires for rearming don't count).

 

Israel finds itself still under attack after some pretty massive recent concessions - whether anyone agrees they were "enough" is irrelevant (although Fatah more or less did agree), politically Israel can only submit so much after that they "have" to fight.

 

Hamas has found itself undermined and weakened not by military might, but because they actions have indirectly cut off much Western financial aid to the area and hate is hard to sustain without money and food, their only real recourse is to start a war and hope for a Hezbollah style propaganda victory (highly unlikely really, given the massive differences in terrain and what Israel "needs" to do). There's no margin for them in peace.

 

 

 

 

 

Realistically it would need an IRA/USA moment to stop things any time soon, that is for other countries to stop Hamas's weapon supply (although given how many of their rockets are made that might be tricky). But that is very unlikely to happen, much more unlikely than the USA completely cutting Israel free in fact.

 

 

Not sure how you can hold these views and wake up in the morning and consider yourself a decent human being. If someone slaps you in the face, you don't tie them down, grab a chainsaw, and saw off their arms and legs. 10 years of rocket attacks killing 20 Israelis does not justify a military action that has killed 600 people, many of them civilians, and wounded over 3000!!! I don't care how terrible Hamas is, this action is indefensible and Israel should be tried for war crimes after this is over. I'm sick of the world giving Israel the benefit of the doubt just because of what Jews suffered in Europe. That does not put them above the Geneva convention and it's time the world decides enough is enough, condemns Israel, and tries the leaders responsible for the war crimes committed in these operations in international courts.

 

 

See raging emotion and no reason or seemingly understanding.

 

 

 

I don't say that I would do it, I say THAT IS HOW IT IS, HAS BEEN AND WILL BE - I don't think HIV is great just because I understand the frankly stupid ways it spreads in most of the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of interest though, if someone (do you support ETA for example?) was blowing up a Spanish train every now and again, then scuttling back across a boarder would you be fine with just ignoring that?

 

Out of further interest do you actually know about when Israel maybe could have been annihilated, and what drives their politics (yes it's still the holocaust to a degree, but much more than that as well - although I find it bizarre that you can say it's one the one hand fine to ignore 6,000,000 deaths yet get irrationally irate because Israel kills more people than Hamas )?

 

Honestly your posting is a perfect example of WHY what is occurring there now occurs.

[Fop 1]

Agree with that in the main. America has the power as well. They're the ones providing Israel with billions of dollars of aid every year. I don't know if they have the political will though.

 

They helped quite a bit with the Israeli pre-Hamas election concessions, unfortunately Hamas and beyond has rather negated the impact of that.

 

The fact is though really you've got to disarm a populace, as the Hamas/Fatah civil war pretty clearly showed.

[Park Life 71]

The BBC's Laura Trevelyan at the UN says the difficulties arose soon after the US, Britain and France backed down in the face of Arab criticism that only a resolution, not a statement, would do.

[Park Life 71]

The International Committee of the Red Cross accused Israel of "unacceptable" delays in letting rescue workers reach three homes in Gaza City that had been hit by shelling.

 

The group said the Israeli army refused rescuers permission to reach the site in the Zaytun neighbourhood for four days. Once Red Cross teams reached the area yesterday, they found four small children next to their dead mothers at one home. They were too weak to stand up on their own. One man was also found alive, too weak to stand up. In all, there were at least 12 corpses lying on mattresses.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Park Life

[Fop 1]

The BBC's Laura Trevelyan at the UN says the difficulties arose soon after the US, Britain and France backed down in the face of Arab criticism that only a resolution, not a statement, would do.

 

The area is a football for wider issues, people getting killed doesn't matter to other powers so long as their goals are achieved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole thing reminds me of Kosovo in a way, the causes of that were long and deep rooted, and the whole thing was a mess.

 

 

In the end the West (and Blair) saw a media opportunity and rode in with cavalry trumpets blaring and pennants streaming, to "rescue" Albanian Kosovoan's from "ethnic cleansing" (in actual fact whilst there was repression in what was effectively a civil war, there wasn't really much of that happening - but it played well in the media) by Serbian Kosovoan's.

 

NATO then spend the next 7 years quietly trying to keep the lid on massive ethnic cleansing of Serbian Kosovoan's by Albanian Kosovoan's. How that was justified I have no idea, it's been kept out the the media well though.

[Ketsbaia 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7819492.stm

 

Oh dear

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7820027.stm

 

Oh dear, oh dear

[trophyshy 7083]

Why do no other arab states declare war on them? Is it just because of the American protection?

 

I mean if France started bombing the shit out of Ireland, would we not physically get involved to protect our neighbours?

 

Are they all too pussy?

[Guest alex]

Why do no other arab states declare war on them? Is it just because of the American protection?

 

I mean if France started bombing the shit out of Ireland, would we not physically get involved to protect our neighbours?

 

Are they all too pussy?

A quick look at the history of the modern state of Israel would probably tell you all you need to know. Also, Egypt can't afford to get involved since iirc, they get the 2nd most amount of US aid after Israel.