Fop 1 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Visiting the Israeli town of Sderot in July, he suggested that he too would respond if rockets were being fired at his house. He has also spoken about the problem of negotiating with Hamas when it is "not representative of a nation state, does not recognise [israel's] right to exist, has consistently used terror as a weapon and is deeply influenced by other countries". Bush? Nope, but it just shows how tricky it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 With the 3 killed by 'friendly fire', have the Israelis killed more of their own men in this conflict than the Palestinians have killed memebers of the Israeli army? It shows how lopsided things are really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 With the 3 killed by 'friendly fire', have the Israelis killed more of their own men in this conflict than the Palestinians have killed memebers of the Israeli army? It shows how lopsided things are really. Aye, but it still goes back to if someone was firing rockets over your house and it "only" killed a couple of people a month in the area, would the mean the people in your area would be "happy" to just ignore it? This is why it will go on forever (or a very long time), the best chance for peace was after the pretty massive Israel concessions and with Fatah government. But then Hamas was elected and after all that's gone on (the civil war with Fatah and the fall over their popularity due to $$$'s cuts) Hamas's need for conflict to survive has pretty much destroyed that chance, even Obama more or less agrees (as it was his comments above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 With the 3 killed by 'friendly fire', have the Israelis killed more of their own men in this conflict than the Palestinians have killed memebers of the Israeli army? It shows how lopsided things are really. Aye, but it still goes back to if someone was firing rockets over your house and it "only" killed a couple of people a month in the area, would the mean the people in your area would be "happy" to just ignore it? This is why it will go on forever (or a very long time), the best chance for peace was after the pretty massive Israel concessions and with Fatah government. But then Hamas was elected and after all that's gone on (the civil war with Fatah and the fall over their popularity due to $$$'s cuts) Hamas's need for conflict to survive has pretty much destroyed that chance, even Obama more or less agrees (as it was his comments above). Yeah, I think Hamas have been spoiling for a fight as it sort of justifies their existence and their stance towards Israel (in their eyes and in those of some of their supporters at least). I don't think the rocket attacks should have been ignored by any means but the disproportionate response by Israel has probably only made things worse (not only directly but in the wider region). The only way they'll ever be able to live together though is if the Palestinians are allowed to live without being under seige from Israel (which is effectively the state they are constantly in). How you get to that point without things like this happening along the way is another matter though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 With the 3 killed by 'friendly fire', have the Israelis killed more of their own men in this conflict than the Palestinians have killed memebers of the Israeli army? It shows how lopsided things are really. Aye, but it still goes back to if someone was firing rockets over your house and it "only" killed a couple of people a month in the area, would the mean the people in your area would be "happy" to just ignore it? This is why it will go on forever (or a very long time), the best chance for peace was after the pretty massive Israel concessions and with Fatah government. But then Hamas was elected and after all that's gone on (the civil war with Fatah and the fall over their popularity due to $$$'s cuts) Hamas's need for conflict to survive has pretty much destroyed that chance, even Obama more or less agrees (as it was his comments above). Yeah, I think Hamas have been spoiling for a fight as it sort of justifies their existence and their stance towards Israel (in their eyes and in those of some of their supporters at least). I don't think the rocket attacks should have been ignored by any means but the disproportionate response by Israel has probably only made things worse (not only directly but in the wider region). The only way they'll ever be able to live together though is if the Palestinians are allowed to live without being under seige from Israel (which is effectively the state they are constantly in). How you get to that point without things like this happening along the way is another matter though. That was the thing though prior to Hamas being elected Israel and Fatah were getting along ok, but that miracle seems to have been largely eroded (even if Hamas fail to regain their popular support via this fight, Fatah probably won't find much grass root support for peace with Israel even with more power back). The only way I can see "peace" is by Israel simply accepting the rocket attacks and the deaths for a very long period of time without retaliation, but that has massive (and unrealistic) internal issues for Israel (and everyone that lives there, Jew, Christian and Muslim), and of course the only reason Israel still exists is by being strong and the (to a large degree) myth of its military might; so turning the other cheek will certainly short term, and maybe long term, result in an escalation. It's just unsolvable, or at least as soon as it gets close to maybe getting a workable fudge, something comes along and throws a hand grenade over the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I suppose the crux of the problem is that it's difficult to see the moderates being in control on either side long enough for a (long term) resolution to be reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 I suppose the crux of the problem is that it's difficult to see the moderates being in control on either side long enough for a (long term) resolution to be reached. The crux of the problem is Hamas need to get bigger fucking rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) I suppose the crux of the problem is that it's difficult to see the moderates being in control on either side long enough for a (long term) resolution to be reached. The crux of the problem is Hamas need to get bigger fucking rockets. Zip it Adolf! Edited January 6, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 I suppose the crux of the problem is that it's difficult to see the moderates being in control on either side long enough for a (long term) resolution to be reached. The crux of the problem is Hamas need to get bigger fucking rockets. Zip it Adolf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) The Israeli's are scum. They've just had this total cunt of a military woman ITV there with her big jewish nose, trying to justify the fact that they bombed and killed 30 people in a school within a refugee camp. Apparently two Hamas operatives were within this camp, and that she said justified the attack, in a fuckin UN refugee camp, where people are cowering for their lives, they are scum, nothing but scum. They're as bad as muslim terrorists. I'm no fan of arabs and these persian cunts in Iran, but I tell you what it is seeing that on the telly there tonight, KNOWING FOR A FACT they'd kill scores of innocents, while not condoning it in any way shape or form, you can begin to understand the lengths these persecuted cunts go to. Gordon Brown says next to fuck all, America will say fuck all, Israel and jews have a massive part in the monetary system we are all slaves to, and every cunts frightened of this bullying pathetic little state which shouldn't even exist in it's present form. Edited January 6, 2009 by Stevie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 The Israeli's are scum. They've just had this total cunt of a military woman ITV there with her big jewish nose, trying to justify the fact that they bombed and killed 30 people in a school within a refugee camp. Apparently two Hamas operatives were within this camp, and that she said justified the attack, in a fuckin UN refugee camp, where people are cowering for their lives, they are scum, nothing but scum. They're as bad as muslim terrorists. I'm no fan of arabs and these persian cunts in Iran, but I tell you what it is seeing that on the telly there tonight, KNOWING FOR A FACT they'd kill scores of innocents, while not condoning it in any way shape or form, you can begin to understand the lengths these persecuted cunts go to. Gordon Brown says next to fuck all, America will say fuck all, Israel and jews have a massive part in the monetary system we are all slaves to, and every cunts frightened of this bullying pathetic little state which shouldn't even exist in it's present form. These are aspects of state terrorism at its worst, with the so called moral leaders of the EU sitting around twiddling thier thumbs. Get some fucking aid in there at least ffs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I don't support the actions by any means but I believe Hamas operatives use these refugee camps as 'cover' making them targets. Hamas have about as much concern for these people who have died as the Israelis. Arguably even less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastC...s/idUSN06444577 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't Israel have a huge military force backed by a burgeoning economy and the latest technology while Hamas have a few out of date rockets some sticks and one bayonet. I'd have thought hiding amongst non-combatants and exploiting the results is one of the few weapons they have in winning the public battle, if not the actual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't Israel have a huge military force backed by a burgeoning economy and the latest technology while Hamas have a few out of date rockets some sticks and one bayonet. I'd have thought hiding amongst non-combatants and exploiting the results is one of the few weapons they have in winning the public battle, if not the actual one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 http://www.reuters.com/article/middleeastC...s/idUSN06444577 "The Israeli embassy did not respond to phone calls for comment" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't Israel have a huge military force backed by a burgeoning economy and the latest technology while Hamas have a few out of date rockets some sticks and one bayonet. I'd have thought hiding amongst non-combatants and exploiting the results is one of the few weapons they have in winning the public battle, if not the actual one. Also a good way of getting loads of civilians killed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thing that gets me is, what were the kids doing at school anyway, if the town, city, strip etc is under attack??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thing that gets me is, what were the kids doing at school anyway, if the town, city, strip etc is under attack??? People (including kids) were taking refuge there when it happened, rather than attending school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't Israel have a huge military force backed by a burgeoning economy and the latest technology while Hamas have a few out of date rockets some sticks and one bayonet. I'd have thought hiding amongst non-combatants and exploiting the results is one of the few weapons they have in winning the public battle, if not the actual one. Also a good way of getting loads of civilians killed though. Absolutley. Terrible that it suits their purpose so well. Watching the reports the last few days i had to laugh at the attempt to make both sides look equally war torn. The report on the palestinian victims featured bombs going off around an orphanage where 20 or 30 kids were sharing 6 bowls of soup off the floor. The report on the Israeli victims featured a soldier who'd had 4 stitches in his leg sitting in a hospital bed with his wife perched beside him in huge Victoria Beckham style Gucci sunglasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thing that gets me is, what were the kids doing at school anyway, if the town, city, strip etc is under attack??? People (including kids) were taking refuge there when it happened, rather than attending school. Ah, so they were hiding rockets (and their bayonet) there, as the Israeli's claim then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Don't Israel have a huge military force backed by a burgeoning economy and the latest technology while Hamas have a few out of date rockets some sticks and one bayonet. I'd have thought hiding amongst non-combatants and exploiting the results is one of the few weapons they have in winning the public battle, if not the actual one. Also a good way of getting loads of civilians killed though. Absolutley. Terrible that it suits their purpose so well. Watching the reports the last few days i had to laugh at the attempt to make both sides look equally war torn. The report on the palestinian victims featured bombs going off around an orphanage where 20 or 30 kids were sharing 6 bowls of soup off the floor. The report on the Israeli victims featured a soldier who'd had 4 stitches in his leg sitting in a hospital bed with his wife perched beside him in huge Victoria Beckham style Gucci sunglasses. All I meant really was Hamas are more bothered about the PR battle than their own people btw. I don't support what Israel is doing for a second. And some of the reporting is as lopsided as the conflict, I agree. There was as big a deal (if not bigger) made out of the 3 Israelis killed by friendly fire as there was made by the numerous Palestinian casualties the same day. I suppose the irony of it made it a 'better' story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Thing that gets me is, what were the kids doing at school anyway, if the town, city, strip etc is under attack??? People (including kids) were taking refuge there when it happened, rather than attending school. Ah, so they were hiding rockets (and their bayonet) there, as the Israeli's claim then. Who knows? The Israelis claim they were fired upon from the school though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Thing that gets me is, what were the kids doing at school anyway, if the town, city, strip etc is under attack??? People (including kids) were taking refuge there when it happened, rather than attending school. Ah, so they were hiding rockets (and their bayonet) there, as the Israeli's claim then. Who knows? The Israelis claim they were fired upon from the school though. Lord knows the truth. The whole place must resemble Foggy Haall now, though!! Edited January 7, 2009 by snakehips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I suppose the crux of the problem is that it's difficult to see the moderates being in control on either side long enough for a (long term) resolution to be reached. The crux of the problem is Hamas need to get bigger fucking rockets. But that still won't work, once Israel is destroyed and every Jew living there butchered and in several nice mass graves, yeah there will be some strutting around, and mass congratulation, a bit of rhetoric of how Islam will rule the world and yet still is the religion of peace....... but then they'll just get back to the age old pastime of killing someone else. I mean you've basically got to go back to the crusader kingdoms for the last time a "Palestine" actually really existed as anything approaching a "state". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts