Israel continues its merciless pounding of the defenceless.

[Park Life 71]

Oswald could have been a loan nutter like. The shot wasn't anywhere near as hard as the more outlandish conspiracy theories suggest either.

 

I blame the Beatles.

[Park Life 71]

Guantanamo isn't about scaring muslims it's assymetric warfare against us. In our name. When they carpet bomb Fallujah they are really carrpet bombing us. In our name. Manufacturing consent through fear and overwhelming useless information.

[Guest alex]

Guantanamo isn't about scaring muslims it's assymetric warfare against us. In our name. When they carpet bomb Fallujah they are really carrpet bombing us. In our name. Manufacturing consent through fear and overwhelming useless information.

Huxley was right.

[Park Life 71]

Guantanamo isn't about scaring muslims it's assymetric warfare against us. In our name. When they carpet bomb Fallujah they are really carrpet bombing us. In our name. Manufacturing consent through fear and overwhelming useless information.

Huxley was right.

 

Shaman.

[Guest alex]

Guantanamo isn't about scaring muslims it's assymetric warfare against us. In our name. When they carpet bomb Fallujah they are really carrpet bombing us. In our name. Manufacturing consent through fear and overwhelming useless information.

Huxley was right.

 

Shaman.

He could move any mountain.

[Park Life 71]

Parky long range radar senses something is stirring.

[Guest alex]

You been sitting on the top deck of the bus again?

[Park Life 71]

You been sitting on the top deck of the bus again?

 

They've been handing out gas masks via the postal system, started yesterday...

[Happy Face 29]

http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/al-khalil-...m-protests.html

[Rob W 0]

You been sitting on the top deck of the bus again?

 

nah it was a dodgy curry he et

[Guest alex]

Explains the gas masks I suppose.

[ewerk 30615]

Irish town criticised for snubbing Israeli ambassador

 

 

Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin has criticised an Irish town council's decision to remove a page signed by the Israeli ambassador from its guestbook.

 

Carrickmacross representatives voted to remove Zion Evrony's signature in protest at Israel's diplomatic record.

 

Mr Martin said diplomatic representatives should always be treated with respect.

 

But a local councillor defended the town's decision, saying he hoped it would send a serious message to Israel.

 

"I think if a government is responsible for a wholesale disregard for international law then local authorities, as well as our own government, have a responsibility to tell them we expect a higher standard," Matt Carthy said.

 

He added that although Carrickmacross is a welcoming town, "it was important that we took a stand".

 

The council's move follows reports that Irish passports were used by those allegedly behind the Dubai killing of Palestinian militant Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in January.

 

Dubai's police chief says he is convinced of the involvement of Israeli agents in al-Mabhouh's death, but Israel says there is no proof.

 

Mr Martin said that while he understands and shares the "deep concerns" of many in Ireland about Israel's policies on a number of issues, the action violated a basic tenet of relations between states.

 

"It is a basic principle of relations between states that we treat each other's diplomatic representatives with civility and respect, regardless of any policy differences," he said.

 

Mr Martin said he has raised concerns about the passport controversy during a meeting with Israel's foreign minister last week.

 

He added: "Ambassadors represent not just their governments, but their peoples".

 

"The way that foreign ambassadors are welcomed and received in Ireland says something about us as a people."

 

Aye, I bet they're shitting themselves now.

[Park Life 71]

Explains the gas masks I suppose.

 

You're on form today.

[Happy Face 29]

The far rightwing government of Binyamin Netanyahu in Israel majorly sandbagged Vice President Joe Biden on Tuesday, demonstrating once again that it has not the slightest interest in pursuing a just peace with the Palestinian people or in trading a cessation of its colonization of the Palestinian West Bank for a comprehensive peace with the Arab world.

 

Biden went to the Mideast to kick off negotiations between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and reassured the latter of undying US support for them. On Chris Matthews' Hardball, Biden explained that when you marry someone, you tell them you love them, but that does not remove the obligation to keep saying it years later. Apparently, however, Washington is henpecked by Tel Aviv to the point almost of being a battered spouse. In response to Biden's loyal support for Israel over decades, the Likud-led government kicked him in the teeth. Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai abruptly announced that he would build 1600 new households (for 8,000 people?) in a part of the Occupied West Bank that the Israeli government had annexed to Jerusalem District. It was precisely such new and increasing Israeli building on Palestinian territory that had led Palestine Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to reject negotiations and to threaten to resign. The announcement put in doubt whether the negotiations would go forward, and made Biden and the United States government look like fools.

 

Joe Biden should have turned around and left the country. Instead, he showed up 90 minutes late to a state dinner hosted by Netanyahu and dared actually directly complain about the way he was treated, "I condemn the decision," he said, calling it "precisely the kind of step that undermines the trust we need right now and runs counter to the constructive discussions that I've had here in Israel."

 

The Netanyahu government had announced a settlement freeze in much of the West Bank for 8 months, but does not include the areas it unilaterally annexed to the district of Jerusalem as West Bank territory. Nor is the 'settlement freeze' really any such thing, since there are plans to expand housing in existing colonies on the West Bank.

 

This controversy comes on the heels of demonstrations in al-Khalil/ Hebron and Jerusalem by Palestinians outraged by the unilateral Israeli designation of the Tombs of the Patriarchs and the tomb of Rachel, in Palestinian West Bank territory, as Israeli heritage sites. In Palestinian experience, such Israeli claims often precede Israeli annexation. While US mass media did not cover the demonstrations in any detail (much reporting from Israel in US media is by dual citizens or by reporters who have served or have children serving in the Israeli army), they are a big story in the Middle East, and the creeping Israeli expulsion of Palestinians from East Jerusalem is guaranteed to enrage the world's 1.5 billion Muslims and result in violence.

 

The Obama administration came into office determined to restart the negotiations between Abbas and the Israelis, with the aim of achieving a two-state solution. After over a year of meetings and carrying messages and cajoling, the patient-as-Job special envoy George Mitchell finally convinced Mahmoud Abbas to agree to indirect negotiations with Israel. For the past year, Abbas had refused to talk, on the grounds that the Israelis were actively colonizing the West Bank and so taking away the very territory that was subject to negotiation. How do you parlay with someone who is stealing from you at that very moment?

 

The Oslo process of the 1990s, initiated by Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, had aimed at establishing two states side by side, Israel and Palestine. Neither the Likud Party of Netanyahu nor Hamas among the Palestinians wanted to see that process succeed. Likud wanted all of the former British Mandate of Palestine to be permanently under Israeli control, including the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, which Israel occupied in 1967 and which have a stateless, rights-less Palestinian population of over 4 million persons. The Israelis have steadily and determinedly usurped Palestinian territory throughout the last nearly a century, and by now it is highly unlikely that what is left of the Palestinian West Bank and the besieged, half-starving Gaza Strip can plausibly be cobbled together into a 'state.'

 

 

In my view, it doesn't really matter if Netanyahu's slap in the face to Biden derails the proposed indirect talks. The Likud-led government has no intention of allowing a Palestinian state, and there is now no place to put one. Israel-Palestine has unalterably entered the era of Apartheid (actually something worse), and it will spell both the end of dreams of peace in our generation, and probably over time the end of Israel as Netanyahu's generation knew it. The Palestinians cannot be left stateless (the legal estate of slaves as well as of Jews under Nazi rule, i.e. people with no legal rights) forever. If they can't have Palestinian citizenship, then they'll have to have Israeli citizenship. The future of Israel-Palestine is likely to become a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state like Lebanon. Ironically, it is Netanyahu who is in no small measure responsible for this likely outcome, the opposite of the one he aspires to.

 

Israelis claim a 'birthright' to do things like colonize Palestinian territory, based on romantic-nationalist reworkings of biblical narratives. But Canaan was populated for millenia before some Canaanite tribes adopted the new religion of Judaism, and it was also ruled, as Palestine, for centuries by Romans and Greeks, and for 1400 years by Muslims. The Palestinian Jews converted to Christianity and then to Islam, so they are cousins of the European Jews (who appear to have gone to Europe voluntarily as male merchants around 800 CE,, where they took local wives). European Jews are about half European by parentage and all European by cultural heritage, and it is no more natural that they be in geographical Palestine than that they be in Europe (where nearly two-thirds of their mothers were from and about a third of their fathers). From a Middle Eastern point of view, European Jews planted in British Mandate Palestine by the British Empire were no different from the million colons or European colonists brought to Algeria while it was under French rule from 1830-1962. (Algeria had been ruled in antiquity by Rome, and the French considered themselves heirs of the Roman Empire, so it was natural that people from Marseilles should return to 'their' territory. Romantic nationalism, whether French or Zionist, always has the same shape). I don't predict the same fate for Jewish Israelis as befell the French colons. Rather, I think they are likely to more and more resemble in their position the Maronite Catholics of Lebanon-- i.e. powerful and formerly dominant population-wise, but increasingly challenged by other rising communities.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/israel-hum...-announces.html

[Park Life 71]

It's really sad when you see those maps and the increased ghettoisation of the Palestinians.

[sniffer 0]

Has to be when you hate jews as much as you do, parky.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

[Park Life 71]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

[Happy Face 29]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Happy Face

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

[Park Life 71]

"Heavy handed" has got to be the understatement of the year.

 

"Some 1.3 million Palestinians, most of them refugees, have been squeezed into the Gaza Strip – one of the most densely populated areas in the world".

 

Btw the numbers of American Jews moving back to Israel AND into the occupied territories grows by the day, this is part of the Israeli states policy of ethnic cleansing former Palestinian areas.

 

 

Israel - When Nisan and Gilan Gertz stepped off the plane at Ben-Gurion International Airport with their children last August, they were seven of almost 4,000 North Americans to make aliyah in 2009 - the largest number to do so in a single year since 1983.

There were a lot of reasons that the Gertzes chose to move their new home in Beit Shemesh, some 25 miles west of Jerusalem, from their home in Passaic, N.J. There was "inspiration and spirituality," as Nisan describes it. "For the first time in 2,000 years, we can live in a sovereign nation that's Jewish."

 

But money was also an issue. Four of the Gertzes' five children - the oldest is 15, the youngest is 3 - were enrolled at Jewish day schools, which together cost the family upward of $50,000 per year in tuition.

Advertisement:

 

"All of our money was being dumped into the increasing cost of education and the increasing cost of health care," said Nisan, who is an architect specializing in the development of hospitals while his wife is a clinical social worker.

 

"I describe it as being on a treadmill." The summer home they'd always wanted, the yearly vacations to nice places, all seemed less and less attainable as tuition bills mounted. "We were running and running and running, and never going anywhere."

 

With unemployment rates hovering at around 10 percent (more than double what they were two years ago), one ripple effect of America's recession is increased immigration to Israel. It is no panacea. But unemployment there is hovering at around 8 percent, while the economy overall has contracted less than in the United States and now appears on the way back to growth. "Israel has proved to be resilient to this particular global shock," the International Monetary Fund noted admiringly in a January report.

 

Then there are the actual cash incentives Israel offers to ease the way for those immigrating under the country's Law of Return, which offers automatic citizenship to anyone with at least one Jewish grandparent. The Ministry of Immigrant Absorption provides about $4,000 per adult and about $2,000 per child to these immigrants, paid out over seven months. Immigrants are also entitled to free education up to the master's degree level and are customarily granted a 70 percent to 90 percent reduction on their property taxes. Plus, they receive discounts and tax waivers on Israeli-made appliances.

 

If that is not enough, additional financial help is available from Nefesh B'Nefesh, a relatively new nongovernmental organization that facilitates immigration for American Jews. About 70 percent of the immigrants apply for this, according to Danny Oberman, the organization's executive vice president of Israeli operations. The amount of these grants covers a "wide range," he said. "The more we have, the more we give away."

[Park Life 71]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

 

of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ

[Park Life 71]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

 

of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ

 

 

Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state.

The Jews themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth.

The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq.

The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up.

 

 

Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan.

Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons.

They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Park Life