Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Weapons Found on the Flotilla Ship Mavi Marmara Used by Activists Against IDF Soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) If the Israelis have released a video showing weapons on board then there must have been some. Even if it did take two days of international condemnation to find them. Edited June 2, 2010 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 If the Israelis have released a video showing weapons on board then there must have been some. Even if it did take two days of international condemnation to find them. Sticks and Catty's Israel's multi-billion military must have been shitting themselves about those getting into the hhands of Gaza's terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 If the Israelis have released a video showing weapons on board then there must have been some. Even if it did take two days of international condemnation to find them. should have had them looking for WMD in Iraq...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-late...player_embedded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. Edited June 2, 2010 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11364 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Them paint balls are deadly tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? Dr Gloom, are you on the wind up? The Israeli army approached peaceful vessels carrying no weapons in international waters, boarded, killed 9 people, injured 60 and kidnapped 600 because they were "provoked"....anyone videoed defending themselves from the illegal attack were "provoking" them and deserved to be shot to death. Undoubtedly this is how some are portraying it, I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of intelligence or integrity (by which i mean people without a vested interest in keeping Israeli relations sweet) going along with it though. Edited June 2, 2010 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? yup, as always the idf reacted with a heavy hand hence the international condemnation. i don't think it was a pre-meditated shooting spree some have made out though. the footage clearly shows the "peace activists" attacking the israeli soldiers. do these guys look like they came in peace? "kill the jews" is hardly a peaceful battle cry is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKi1YeBcMw some further reading here - http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45...Israel_Wave.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 The irony is these actions can't in any way make Israel more safe and secure. Which is their excuse for carrying them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? yup, as always the idf reacted with a heavy hand hence the international condemnation. i don't think it was a pre-meditated shooting spree some have made out though. the footage clearly shows the "peace activists" attacking the israeli soldiers. do these guys look like they came in peace? "kill the jews" is hardly a peaceful battle cry is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKi1YeBcMw some further reading here - http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45...Israel_Wave.asp I think the use of the phrase 'peace activists' is just an attempt to make those involved on the boats look like hypocrites and to justify the actions of the Israelis. No doubt some would class themselves as that but it was an aid mission first and foremost. I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli in any way fwiw, and I wouldn't say slogans like 'Kill the Jews' are anything other than deeply unpleasant. But no Jews were killed whereas 9 others were, which is worth repeating imo. Also, it'll only intensify the anti-Israeli feeling in the region and in the rest of the world. Another massive overreaction on their part and another own goal. I only hope some good comes of it. I doubt it will though. Edited June 2, 2010 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? Dr Gloom, are you on the wind up? The Israeli army approached peaceful vessels carrying no weapons in international waters, boarded, killed 9 people, injured 60 and kidnapped 600 because they were "provoked"....anyone videoed defending themselves from the illegal attack were "provoking" them and deserved to be shot to death. Undoubtedly this is how some are portraying it, I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of intelligence or integrity (by which i mean people without a vested interest in keeping Israeli relations sweet) going along with it though. no, i'm not on the wind up. as always though there are two sides to this story. i agree that there was an over reaction from the idf but i'm not as quick to condem israel as some others. as far as israel is concerned the blockade needs to exist to stop weapons getting into gaza. remember that hamas wants israel wiped off the face of the planet. opinion in israel is divided but remember that many normal israelis back a two state solution. but putting politics and whether you're for or against israel aside, the point of discussion is how the israeli soldiers acted. i agree they were heavy handed but to say those on the boat came in peace is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 yup, as always the idf reacted with a heavy hand hence the international condemnation. i don't think it was a pre-meditated shooting spree some have made out though. the footage clearly shows the "peace activists" attacking the israeli soldiers. do these guys look like they came in peace? "kill the jews" is hardly a peaceful battle cry is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKi1YeBcMw some further reading here - http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45...Israel_Wave.asp That doesn't say activists sang "kill the jews". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? yup, as always the idf reacted with a heavy hand hence the international condemnation. i don't think it was a pre-meditated shooting spree some have made out though. the footage clearly shows the "peace activists" attacking the israeli soldiers. do these guys look like they came in peace? "kill the jews" is hardly a peaceful battle cry is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKi1YeBcMw some further reading here - http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45...Israel_Wave.asp I think the use of the phrase 'peace activists' is just an attempt to make them look like hypocrites and to justify the actions of the Israelis. It was an aid mission first and foremost. I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli in any way fwiw, and I wouldn't say slogans like 'kill the jews' are anything other than deeply unpleasant. But no Jews were killed whereas 9 others were, which is worth repeating imo. Also, it'll only intensify the anti-Israeli feeling in the region and in the rest of the world. agree about that. israel doesn't help its cause with its actions and yet again it has shot itself in the foot with the heavy handed response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? Dr Gloom, are you on the wind up? The Israeli army approached peaceful vessels carrying no weapons in international waters, boarded, killed 9 people, injured 60 and kidnapped 600 because they were "provoked"....anyone videoed defending themselves from the illegal attack were "provoking" them and deserved to be shot to death. Undoubtedly this is how some are portraying it, I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of intelligence or integrity (by which i mean people without a vested interest in keeping Israeli relations sweet) going along with it though. no, i'm not on the wind up. as always though there are two sides to this story. i agree that there was an over reaction from the idf but i'm not as quick to condem israel as some others. as far as israel is concerned the blockade needs to exist to stop weapons getting into gaza. remember that hamas wants israel wiped off the face of the planet. opinion in israel is divided but remember that many normal israelis back a two state solution. but putting politics and whether you're for or against israel aside, the point of discussion is how the israeli soldiers acted. i agree they were heavy handed but to say those on the boat came in peace is questionable. How much longer is this lie going to be repeated? That's not the case. It doesn't matter what the majority of people want. I have no problem with the Israeli majority. The majority of Palestinians back a two state solution too...as do their leaders. The problem is the Israeli leadership don't....why would they when America fully support them whatever war crimes they commit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? yup, as always the idf reacted with a heavy hand hence the international condemnation. i don't think it was a pre-meditated shooting spree some have made out though. the footage clearly shows the "peace activists" attacking the israeli soldiers. do these guys look like they came in peace? "kill the jews" is hardly a peaceful battle cry is it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKi1YeBcMw some further reading here - http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45...Israel_Wave.asp I think the use of the phrase 'peace activists' is just an attempt to make them look like hypocrites and to justify the actions of the Israelis. It was an aid mission first and foremost. I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-Israeli in any way fwiw, and I wouldn't say slogans like 'kill the jews' are anything other than deeply unpleasant. But no Jews were killed whereas 9 others were, which is worth repeating imo. Also, it'll only intensify the anti-Israeli feeling in the region and in the rest of the world. agree about that. israel doesn't help its cause with its actions and yet again it has shot itself in the foot with the heavy handed response. Unfortunately I think they'll get away with it. I say 'unfortunately' because I think that in itself is going to create more problems further down the line. You couldn't come up with better Jihad recruitment material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 "Peace activists" on Mavi Marmara attacking with metal batons http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRbcwnp-la...player_embedded I don't doubt there were a few people up for a ruck but lets not pretend the poor little Israeli soldiers had no option but to defend themselves with Mac-10s. The videos are edited for a reason. the israeli soilders reacted, but there is no doubt at all that they were provoked. were the majority of those on board really peace activists? this is an interesting report. most of the idf that landed on the boat were armed with paint ball guns http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1213...121348851234252 There's 9 dead and many more injured isn't there? Dr Gloom, are you on the wind up? The Israeli army approached peaceful vessels carrying no weapons in international waters, boarded, killed 9 people, injured 60 and kidnapped 600 because they were "provoked"....anyone videoed defending themselves from the illegal attack were "provoking" them and deserved to be shot to death. Undoubtedly this is how some are portraying it, I can't imagine anyone with an ounce of intelligence or integrity (by which i mean people without a vested interest in keeping Israeli relations sweet) going along with it though. no, i'm not on the wind up. as always though there are two sides to this story. i agree that there was an over reaction from the idf but i'm not as quick to condem israel as some others. as far as israel is concerned the blockade needs to exist to stop weapons getting into gaza. remember that hamas wants israel wiped off the face of the planet. opinion in israel is divided but remember that many normal israelis back a two state solution. but putting politics and whether you're for or against israel aside, the point of discussion is how the israeli soldiers acted. i agree they were heavy handed but to say those on the boat came in peace is questionable. How much longer is this lie going to be repeated? That's not the case. It doesn't matter what the majority of people want. I have no problem with the Israeli majority. The majority of Palestinians back a two state solution too...as do their leaders. The problem is the Israeli leadership don't....why would they when America fully support them whatever war crimes they commit. i agree that netanyahu is the worst possible leader israel can have when you look at the prospects for the peace process, worse than sharon even. why do you say that's a lie? this from wikipedia: Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip. After the elections, in April, 2006, Hamas co-founder Mahmoud Al-Zahar did not rule out the possibility of accepting a temporary two-state solution, but also stated that he dreamed "of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it . . . . I hope that our dream to have our independent state on all historic Palestine (will materialize). . . . This dream will become real one day. I'm certain of this because there is no place for the state of Israel on this land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Juan Cole, always excellent and factual.... More eyewitness accounts are emerging from released aid activists whom the Israelis had imprisoned.” They corroborate the videotape showing that Israeli forces were firing the deck of the Mavi Marmura before they boarded it. The Israeli forces also broke their own rules of engagement, requiring them to shoot at the legs of resisters. They instead shot humanitarian workers in the face, shoulder and chest. It may be that such violence on the part of Israeli soldiers provoked the attack with sticks on the Israeli commandos as they landed, videotape of which the Israeli army has released. The Israeli army is sending back home all of the kidnapped aid workers seized on the ships within 48 hours. Initially the Israeli authorities had threatened to imprison for an undisclosed amount of time those who would not sign a Hebrew-language confession. The UNSC condemnation and that of dozens of countries in the world appears to have changed the Israelis’ minds on the issue. For an understanding of the impact of the Israeli blockade of Gaza on the health and welfare of Palestinians, see this reliefweb Q & A. President Hosny Mubarak of Egypt ordered on Monday that the blockade of Gaza be lifted and Palestinians be allowed to buy and sell goods beyond the confines of Gaza’s borders. Although Egypt is widely criticized for mainly keeping the Rafah crossing closed or open only for short periods, Cairo is forced into this arrangement by its peace treaty with Israel and its dependence on the US for $2 billion a year in various sorts of aid. Were Egypt to defy Israel’s blockade for a long period of time or let in forbidden materials, the Israelis would almost certainly just bomb the entrance. Egypt’s government deeply dislikes having to remain silent in the face of Israeli provocations, as Khalid al-Shami pointed out in Tuesday’s al-Quds al-Arabi. But in fact Egypt could do nothing in the face of such an Israeli military action, being constrained by its treaty obligations and by its close alliance with the USA. But keeping the border this open holds dangers for Egypt itself. Cairo fears that at some point Israeli foreign minister and leader of the far rightwing Yisrael Beitenu party Avigdor Lieberman will make good on his threats of ‘transferring’ the Palestinians. Egypt is determined that Israel will not resolve its Palestinian problem by expelling them to Egypt as refugees in the Sinai Peninsula. (Likely the Israeli shooting-fish-in-the-barrel war on Gaza in winter 2008-2009 was in part intended to provoke a panicked exodus of Palestinians into the Sinai, but Egyptian military forces prevented any such thing from occurring). Egypt deeply dislikes the Hamas party/ militia and would not want to be in the position of allowing its influence to spread among bedouin and others in the Sinai region. Such Hamas influences are already blamed for terrorist bombings at Red Sea resorts earlier in this decade. Egypt recently arrested what it called a criminal smuggling ring of Hizbullah agents that had , Cairo insisted, arranged for weapons to reach Hamas via the tunnels through Egyptian territory. Egypt views Hamas as a gullible cat’s paw of Iran and a useful idiot for Hizbullah supporters. Since the Mubarak government wants to limit Iranian influence in the Levant and northern Africa, it sees Hamas through the lens of suspicion. Egypt’s regime has been locked in a a love-hate relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood fundamentalists for decades. The Brotherhood is the largest and most credible opposition to the ruling National Democratic Party, and it is carefully curbed by the security forces (the Brotherhood currently has 80 members of parliament in the lower house of parliament, but they had to run as independents or under other party banners). On the other hand, the regime cultivates the Brotherhood to offset leftist influence (Mubarak’s government is center-right). The Brotherhood is virulently anti-Israeli and generally sympathetic to Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood itself. Egypt’s president, Hosni Mubarak, is 81 and apparently in poor health, and it is likely he will pass from the political scene in the next few years. He may be succeeded by his son Gamal. But the transition period will be dangerous for the ruling party, and the Muslim Brotherhood could take advantage of the power vacuum. The Israeli adventurism on the high seas and the way it ended badly has the potential to place the Egyptian government in a bad light in the eyes of the public compared to the Brotherhood. Egypt responded to these pressures by opening the Rafah Gate for an ‘unspecified period of time.’ The move may mollify pro-Palestinian Egyptians and to some extent the Muslim Brotherhood. But to implement it for very long likely would indeed lead to an Israeli attack on the Rafah crossing. For these and other reasons, the lifting of the blockade at the Rafah crossing is likely to be temporary, as long as blockade remains Israeli policy. In the meantime, Hamas leader Khaled Mishaal wrote a letter to Mubarak complaining that the lifting of the blockade was too narrow and asking Egypt to work for a permanent end of the siege of Gaza. Turkey is also said to be pressuring Egypt in this direction. But these two cannot offset the influence with the Egyptian government of the US. http://www.juancole.com/2010/06/egypts-lif...-temporary.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRg74Gn_Nc these are things they don't want the world to know. and it's only a small part of what happens in gaza, which is so under siege that huge convoys of humanitarian aid are passed into it every day via israeli border controls. the only thing israel refuses to allow into gaza is cement, which hamas uses to build underground tunnels and bunkers from which to attack Israel. perhaps gaza should be made free from hamas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21913 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 some good video analysis from tobias buck in the ft today http://video.ft.com/v/89274892001/June-1-I...flotilla-attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 (edited) Boarding in int waters is illegal anyway and the ship is allowed to defend itself, which is what it did. The blockade isn't about weapons it's about punishing them for voting for Hamas. Bording the ships is for intimidation and to send a message to others who might think about breaking the blockade and nothing to do with weapons being found onboard. It will be interesting when the Irish ship gets there and MANY MORE WILL FOLLOW. Edited June 2, 2010 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted June 2, 2010 Author Share Posted June 2, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRg74Gn_Nc these are things they don't want the world to know. and it's only a small part of what happens in gaza, which is so under siege that huge convoys of humanitarian aid are passed into it every day via israeli border controls. the only thing israel refuses to allow into gaza is cement, which hamas uses to build underground tunnels and bunkers from which to attack Israel. perhaps gaza should be made free from hamas. They might also need the cement to rebuild the 3000 odd houses that have been demolished in the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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