Israel continues its merciless pounding of the defenceless.

[ChezGiven 0]

Does anyone else reckon Mossad have clocked this thread yet? They have a dedicated team after all.

[Happy Face 29]

It's a rogue state basically and doesn't give a rats arse about normal conventions that protect status and rights of the people it systematically opresses. But their day is approaching....

 

it's a democracy man. if you want to talk about rogue states, you should start first with iran

 

 

Is the system of government the defining feature of a rogue state? Iran is as much of a democracy as the US/Israel.

 

Rogue state is a term applied by some international theorists to states considered threatening to the world's peace. This means meeting certain criteria, such as being ruled by authoritarian regimes that severely restrict human rights, sponsor terrorism, and seek to proliferate weapons of mass destruction.

 

You'd have to be blind to deny that the US/Israel most threaten world peace in the pursuit of their own interests, severely restrict human rights, aggravate terrorism and proliferate WMD.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Happy Face

[Park Life 71]

Nicos has really been on form in this thread. Hats off to you Sir!

[Park Life 71]

China to work with US on Iran sanctions

 

Announcement comes after Obama opens global security summit aimed at protecting nuclear material from terrorists

 

 

Pesident Obama China

 

Barack Obama greets Hu Jintao at the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington, DC. Photograph: Alex Wong/Getty Images

 

China has agreed to work with the US on possible new sanctions against Iran as Ukraine announced it would give up its weapons-grade enriched uranium at a nuclear summit in Washington.

 

President Barack Obama opened the global security summit last night after two days of meetings with leaders of 47 countries assembled to redouble efforts to keep nuclear material out of terrorist hands.

 

China's incremental move toward US ambitions to sanction Iran and Ukraine's plans get rid of highly enriched uranium provided momentum to Obama's to improve nuclear security.

 

Obama's meeting with Chinese president Hu Jintao was the last of the summit warm-up sessions before the US leader sat down with his guests at a working dinner.

 

After the Hu meeting, White House national security aide Jeff Bader said Iran was a major topic of discussion at the 90-minute session.

 

"They're prepared to work with us," Bader said, interpreting that willingness as "another sign of international unity on this issue".

 

The upbeat assessment reflected a recent warming of US-Chinese diplomatic ties. Still, the meeting produced no breakthroughs. And Chinese spokesman Ma Zhaoxu did not mention sanctions in a statement on Hu's meeting with Obama.

 

Ma said China hopes all parties will step up diplomatic efforts and seek ways to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue through negotiations.

 

"China and the United States share the same overall goal on the Iranian nuclear issue," the Chinese statement said.

 

Obama has been pressing the case that a fourth round of sanctions are needed to convince Iran to alter its perceived course toward a nuclear weapons capability.

 

China, while historically averse to tough sanctions and uneasy about potential damage to its trade relationship with Tehran, may indeed be coming on board with Obama.

 

The US already has the backing of Britain, France and Germany. Russia, too, has shown a willingness to join the sanctions effort. But when pressed on whether China had committed to anything specific on the sanctions front, Bader was less direct.

 

"We are going to be we've started to work that and we're going to be working on that in the coming days coming days and weeks," he said. Obama wants agreement on sanctions before summer.

 

Brazil and Turkey, which both hold non-permanent seats on the UN security council, are studying an alternative proposal to deal with Iran's controversial nuclear programme, Brazilian foreign minister Celso Amorim said yesterday.

 

The Brazilian president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, and the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, talked about a strategy different from sanctions, Amorim said.

 

Amorim told a news conference that Brazil agrees with the permanent members of the security council seeking a "diplomatic solution," but Brazil has a different perspective on how the issue should be approached.

 

Erdogan said at a speech on the sidelines of the conference that his country does not want Iran or any other nation to have nuclear weapons.

 

While the US worries about Iran's nuclear programme, Turkey has its own concerns about Israel's nuclear programme. The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, opted not to attend Obama's summit amid concern that Turkey and Egypt would use the conference as a platform to challenge him over his country's widely assumed nuclear arsenal, which the Jewish state never has acknowledged.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Park Life

[Happy Face 29]

Nicos has really been on form in this thread. Hats off to you Sir!

 

 

Why thangyoo

 

It's all the Chomsky I've been reading. I've moved on to a bit of Charlie Brooker now though so my dissidence will become slightly more measured

[Happy Face 29]

China to work with US on Iran sanctions

 

Announcement comes after Obama opens global security summit aimed at protecting nuclear material from terrorists

 

 

Pesident Obama China

 

Barack Obama greets Hu Jintao at the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington, DC. Photograph: Alex Wong/Getty Images

 

China has agreed to work with the US on possible new sanctions against Iran as Ukraine announced it would give up its weapons-grade enriched uranium at a nuclear summit in Washington.

 

President Barack Obama opened the global security summit last night after two days of meetings with leaders of 47 countries assembled to redouble efforts to keep nuclear material out of terrorist hands.

 

China's incremental move toward US ambitions to sanction Iran and Ukraine's plans get rid of highly enriched uranium provided momentum to Obama's to improve nuclear security.

 

Obama's meeting with Chinese president Hu Jintao was the last of the summit warm-up sessions before the US leader sat down with his guests at a working dinner.

 

After the Hu meeting, White House national security aide Jeff Bader said Iran was a major topic of discussion at the 90-minute session.

 

"They're prepared to work with us," Bader said, interpreting that willingness as "another sign of international unity on this issue".

 

The upbeat assessment reflected a recent warming of US-Chinese diplomatic ties. Still, the meeting produced no breakthroughs. And Chinese spokesman Ma Zhaoxu did not mention sanctions in a statement on Hu's meeting with Obama.

 

Ma said China hopes all parties will step up diplomatic efforts and seek ways to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue through negotiations.

 

"China and the United States share the same overall goal on the Iranian nuclear issue," the Chinese statement said.

 

Obama has been pressing the case that a fourth round of sanctions are needed to convince Iran to alter its perceived course toward a nuclear weapons capability.

 

China, while historically averse to tough sanctions and uneasy about potential damage to its trade relationship with Tehran, may indeed be coming on board with Obama.

 

The US already has the backing of Britain, France and Germany. Russia, too, has shown a willingness to join the sanctions effort. But when pressed on whether China had committed to anything specific on the sanctions front, Bader was less direct.

 

"We are going to be we've started to work that and we're going to be working on that in the coming days coming days and weeks," he said. Obama wants agreement on sanctions before summer.

 

Brazil and Turkey, which both hold non-permanent seats on the UN security council, are studying an alternative proposal to deal with Iran's controversial nuclear programme, Brazilian foreign minister Celso Amorim said yesterday.

 

The Brazilian president, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, and the Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, talked about a strategy different from sanctions, Amorim said.

 

Amorim told a news conference that Brazil agrees with the permanent members of the security council seeking a "diplomatic solution," but Brazil has a different perspective on how the issue should be approached.

 

Erdogan said at a speech on the sidelines of the conference that his country does not want Iran or any other nation to have nuclear weapons.

 

While the US worries about Iran's nuclear programme, Turkey has its own concerns about Israel's nuclear programme. The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, opted not to attend Obama's summit amid concern that Turkey and Egypt would use the conference as a platform to challenge him over his country's widely assumed nuclear arsenal, which the Jewish state never has acknowledged.

 

Speaking of Chomsky...

 

It is widely recognized that the most serious threat to US (and world) security is the huge Soviet nuclear weapons system, with safeguards and command-and-control systems deteriorating severely as the economy has collapsed under neoliberal reforms. Clinton negotiators encouraged Russia to adopt Washington's launch-on-warning strategy to alleviate Russian concerns over BMD and annulment of the ABM treaty, a proposal that is "pretty bizarre," one expert commented, because "we know their warning system is full of holes." Accidental launch has come perilously close in recent years. Clinton had a small program to assist Russia in safeguarding and dismantling nuclear weapons, and providing alternative employment for nuclear scientists. A bipartisan Energy Department task force called for sharp increase in funding of such programs. Co-chair Howard Baker, former Republican Senate majority leader, testified to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April that "

it really boggles my mind that there could be 40,000 nuclear weapons...in the former Soviet Union, poorly controlled and poorly stored, and that the world isn't in a state of near-hysteria about the danger." One of the first acts of the Bush administration was to

reduce

these programs, increasing the risks of accidental launch and leakage of "loose nukes" to other countries, including Washington's favorite "rogue states," followed by nuclear scientists with no other way to employ their skills.

Russian proposals to reduce missiles sharply, well below Bush's proposals, have been rejected.

 

http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/yspace/articles/bmd/chomsky.htm

[Park Life 71]

Destruction is production we have never been at war with Eurasia we are contatantly at war with eastasia.

[Happy Face 29]

Juan Coile reckons it's now to do with Israel being embarrassed by Turkey or Egypt.

 

He reckons it's actually about the US cutting off their nuclear scientists....

 

But there is another possible explanation for Netanyahu staying away from a summit on nuclear security issues in Washington. It is that the Israeli prime minister is protesting a new White House policy of refusing visas to Israeli scientists, engineers and technicians who work at the Dimona Reactor/ nuclear bomb factory. Up until recently they had been free to attend technical and scientific conferences and pursue advanced classes at US universities. The visa denials were reported in the Israeli newspaper Maariv by Uri Binder on Wednesday April 7: “Nuclear Reactor Workers Not Wanted in United States.” It was translated by the USG Open Source Center. The article reports that Israeli workers at the Nuclear Research Center Negev (NRCN) in Dimona are complaining bitterly at the humiliation of being excluded from the US, saying the turn-downs are an “offense” against them “and their families.” (???) Moreover, the Dimona bomb plant is suddenly finding it difficult to import technical components and equipment from the United States. The restrictions, they say, are unprecedented. They also claim a double standard, alleging that the Obama administration is being “lenient” toward Iran.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/israels-ne...off-obamas.html

 

It makes more sense. When have Israel ever given a fuck about the embarrassingly contradictory spectacle of refusing to sign up to the Non Proliferation Treaty on the one hand, while on the other calling for sanctions against Iran who ARE signed up and are compliant?

[Park Life 71]

Juan Coile reckons it's now to do with Israel being embarrassed by Turkey or Egypt.

 

He reckons it's actually about the US cutting off their nuclear scientists....

 

But there is another possible explanation for Netanyahu staying away from a summit on nuclear security issues in Washington. It is that the Israeli prime minister is protesting a new White House policy of refusing visas to Israeli scientists, engineers and technicians who work at the Dimona Reactor/ nuclear bomb factory. Up until recently they had been free to attend technical and scientific conferences and pursue advanced classes at US universities. The visa denials were reported in the Israeli newspaper Maariv by Uri Binder on Wednesday April 7: “Nuclear Reactor Workers Not Wanted in United States.” It was translated by the USG Open Source Center. The article reports that Israeli workers at the Nuclear Research Center Negev (NRCN) in Dimona are complaining bitterly at the humiliation of being excluded from the US, saying the turn-downs are an “offense” against them “and their families.” (???) Moreover, the Dimona bomb plant is suddenly finding it difficult to import technical components and equipment from the United States. The restrictions, they say, are unprecedented. They also claim a double standard, alleging that the Obama administration is being “lenient” toward Iran.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/israels-ne...off-obamas.html

 

It makes more sense. When have Israel ever given a fuck about the embarrassingly contradictory spectacle of refusing to sign up to the Non Proliferation Treaty on the one hand, while on the other calling for sanctions against Iran who ARE signed up and are compliant?

 

The srew will be continued to turned on Israel as its strategic significance weighed against the true costs of shoring it up increases.

[Happy Face 29]

Juan Coile reckons it's now to do with Israel being embarrassed by Turkey or Egypt.

 

He reckons it's actually about the US cutting off their nuclear scientists....

 

But there is another possible explanation for Netanyahu staying away from a summit on nuclear security issues in Washington. It is that the Israeli prime minister is protesting a new White House policy of refusing visas to Israeli scientists, engineers and technicians who work at the Dimona Reactor/ nuclear bomb factory. Up until recently they had been free to attend technical and scientific conferences and pursue advanced classes at US universities. The visa denials were reported in the Israeli newspaper Maariv by Uri Binder on Wednesday April 7: “Nuclear Reactor Workers Not Wanted in United States.” It was translated by the USG Open Source Center. The article reports that Israeli workers at the Nuclear Research Center Negev (NRCN) in Dimona are complaining bitterly at the humiliation of being excluded from the US, saying the turn-downs are an “offense” against them “and their families.” (???) Moreover, the Dimona bomb plant is suddenly finding it difficult to import technical components and equipment from the United States. The restrictions, they say, are unprecedented. They also claim a double standard, alleging that the Obama administration is being “lenient” toward Iran.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/israels-ne...off-obamas.html

 

It makes more sense. When have Israel ever given a fuck about the embarrassingly contradictory spectacle of refusing to sign up to the Non Proliferation Treaty on the one hand, while on the other calling for sanctions against Iran who ARE signed up and are compliant?

 

The srew will be continued to turned on Israel as its strategic significance weighed against the true costs of shoring it up increases.

 

Even without the spiralling cost of supporting Israel both financially and idealogically, surely their strategic significance has been vastly diminished by the US turning Iraq into the 51st state. I'm impressed they've still got the balls to posture as they do.

[ChezGiven 0]

Doesnt fit with your view of Obama the terrorist does it?

[Park Life 71]

Doesnt fit with your view of Obama the terrorist does it?

 

Sector 7 cannot remember, for it has forgotten remembering.... And held in that misty past is a cry and sometimes it comes at night as you remember what it is. Sector 7 has a long history of no history and a long story of no story.Therein lies the paradigm of love and dreams in S7.

 

SHE is always there, everprescent, echoing across a vast lost hinterland of information... And once you know that she is mythical you are lost, for you were only held for that moment when you first looked into your mothers eyes.

 

Definitions of love fracture 1. (Or how we overcame our fear of being something different).

from the Chronicles of P.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

Juan Coile reckons it's now to do with Israel being embarrassed by Turkey or Egypt.

 

He reckons it's actually about the US cutting off their nuclear scientists....

 

But there is another possible explanation for Netanyahu staying away from a summit on nuclear security issues in Washington. It is that the Israeli prime minister is protesting a new White House policy of refusing visas to Israeli scientists, engineers and technicians who work at the Dimona Reactor/ nuclear bomb factory. Up until recently they had been free to attend technical and scientific conferences and pursue advanced classes at US universities. The visa denials were reported in the Israeli newspaper Maariv by Uri Binder on Wednesday April 7: “Nuclear Reactor Workers Not Wanted in United States.” It was translated by the USG Open Source Center. The article reports that Israeli workers at the Nuclear Research Center Negev (NRCN) in Dimona are complaining bitterly at the humiliation of being excluded from the US, saying the turn-downs are an “offense” against them “and their families.” (???) Moreover, the Dimona bomb plant is suddenly finding it difficult to import technical components and equipment from the United States. The restrictions, they say, are unprecedented. They also claim a double standard, alleging that the Obama administration is being “lenient” toward Iran.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/israels-ne...off-obamas.html

 

It makes more sense. When have Israel ever given a fuck about the embarrassingly contradictory spectacle of refusing to sign up to the Non Proliferation Treaty on the one hand, while on the other calling for sanctions against Iran who ARE signed up and are compliant?

 

The srew will be continued to turned on Israel as its strategic significance weighed against the true costs of shoring it up increases.

 

Even without the spiralling cost of supporting Israel both financially and idealogically, surely their strategic significance has been vastly diminished by the US turning Iraq into the 51st state. I'm impressed they've still got the balls to posture as they do.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Happy Face 29]

Doesnt fit with your view of Obama the terrorist does it?

 

Not sure I've called Obama a terrorist, but how would this do anything to change such a view if it were held?

 

Iran continue to abide by the NPT, but Obama has now convinced China to support sanctions against them anyway. He's also preserved the right for first strike.

 

Over all, the policy promised less than many had expected.

“It’s a very modest document … it’s surprisingly status quo,”

said Hans Kristensen, director of the Nuclear Information Project, at the Federation of American Scientists, the group founded in 1945 by scientists who had worked on the Manhattan Project to develop the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

Wouldn't you agree that what the BBC call Obama's drive to "improve nuclear security" is in reality the US maneuvering to secure nuclear dominance over the globe? Would Obama agree to a deal if every other nuclear power put it on the table saying lets get rid of them all? It's an offer Russia made in the past and got short shrift on.

[Park Life 71]

Doesnt fit with your view of Obama the terrorist does it?

 

Not sure I've called Obama a terrorist, but how would this do anything to change such a view if it were held?

 

Iran continue to abide by the NPT, but Obama has now convinced China to support sanctions against them anyway. He's also preserved the right for first strike.

 

Over all, the policy promised less than many had expected.

“It’s a very modest document … it’s surprisingly status quo,”

said Hans Kristensen, director of the Nuclear Information Project, at the Federation of American Scientists, the group founded in 1945 by scientists who had worked on the Manhattan Project to develop the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

 

Wouldn't you agree that what the BBC call Obama's drive to "improve nuclear security" is in reality the US maneuvering to secure nuclear dominance over the globe? Would Obama agree to a deal if every other nuclear power put it on the table saying lets get rid of them all? It's an offer Russia made in the past and got short shrift on.

 

China won't agree to sanctions, this is just a holding position.

[Happy Face 29]

A dispassionate examination of Israeli policy and its negative impact on the US at the Wilson Center by 5 former ambassadors is summarized at the Holy Land Peace Project blog. Josh argues that there is a significant change in what can be said publicly with regard to criticism of Israeli government actions. Some major points made by the ambassadors:

 

‘# Continued Israeli settlement building (not just expansion but building) is a major obstacle to the peace process and undermines the U.S. role as a mediator in the region.

# Petraeus was absolutely right: American security interests are threatened by the lack of progress on Israeli-Palestinian peace.

# The Obama administration has rightfully placed great focus on peacemaking, appointing George Mitchell on his first full day in office and reaching out to the Arab world with his Cairo speech. However, after 15 months the administration has not really laid out a clear U.S. policy on Israeli-Palestinian peace and this is hampering his efforts.’

 

But the supposed ban on saying these things was always a project of a small number of far-rightwing but very wealthy Jewish-American organizations such as the Zionist Organization of America and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs.

 

More American Jews want a Palestinian state than do not want one according to a just-released survey of American Jewish opinion by the American Jewish Congress (48% to 45%). Admittedly, 67% of the general American public supports a Palestinian state, but that nearly half of American Jews do, as well, shows that this issue is controversial only because a few far rightwing fringe elements are supported by a small number of extremely wealthy Christian Zionists and Wall Street types. By the numbers, I am solidly in the mainstream of both general American and US Jewish attitudes on this issue. It is the Daniel Pipes, Martin Kramers, Marty Peretzes, and John Hagees who are the extremists.

 

Some 64% of American Jews are also in favor of dismantling ’some’ settlements on the West Bank to get peace, and nearly one in ten want all settlements disbanded. Among Americans in general, only 49% say Israel should be required to stop building settlements as part of a peace deal. It isn’t exactly the same question, but it may be that Jewish Americans are more flexible on this issue than are American gentiles, and they are certainly more flexible than are Republican Christians.

 

One big danger signal for supporters of Israel: The percentage of Americans who were sure that Israel is an ally of the US has fallen in Rasmussen’s polling from 70% last August to 58% in March. Since the far rightwing Likud government in Israel is clearly not interested in cooperating with the current US Middle East policy, and this attitude is obvious in their churlish behavior toward Joe Biden and US congressmen, it is no wonder that doubts are creeping in.

 

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/us-attitud...to-realism.html

[Park Life 71]

Obama would go down in history if he secured a workable Palestinian state with full rights of independance. History awaits.

[Rob W 0]

Obama would go down in history if he secured a workable Palestinian state with full rights of independence. History awaits.

 

 

probably go down like Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the Israeli PM .................

[Happy Face 29]

Unfortunately the right wing rulers of America fail to reflect public opinion on the matter....

 

More than three quarters of the U.S. Senate, including 38 Democrats, have signed on to a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton implicitly rebuking the Obama Administration for its confrontational stance toward Israel.

 

The letter, backed by the pro-Israel group AIPAC, now has the signatures of 76 Senators and says in part:

 

We recognize that our government and the Government of Israel will not always agree on particular issues in the peace process. But such differences are best resolved amicably and in a manner that befits longstanding strategic allies. We must never forget the depth and breadth of our alliance and always do our utmost to reinforce a relationship that has benefited both nations for more than six decades.

 

A similar letter garnered 333 signatures in the House, and its support marks almost unified Republican support for Benjamin Netanyahu's government, along with strong, but more divided, public Democratic discomfort with Obama's policies in the region.

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/041...ael_letter.html

 

[Park Life 71]

Obama would go down in history if he secured a workable Palestinian state with full rights of independence. History awaits.

 

 

probably go down like Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the Israeli PM .................

 

Rob you can't thwack me on one board about conspiracy and then make comments like I'm prone to on another board. Now which is it to be??!1

[Park Life 71]

Unfortunately the right wing rulers of America fail to reflect public opinion on the matter....

 

More than three quarters of the U.S. Senate, including 38 Democrats, have signed on to a letter to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton implicitly rebuking the Obama Administration for its confrontational stance toward Israel.

 

The letter, backed by the pro-Israel group AIPAC, now has the signatures of 76 Senators and says in part:

 

We recognize that our government and the Government of Israel will not always agree on particular issues in the peace process. But such differences are best resolved amicably and in a manner that befits longstanding strategic allies. We must never forget the depth and breadth of our alliance and always do our utmost to reinforce a relationship that has benefited both nations for more than six decades.

 

A similar letter garnered 333 signatures in the House, and its support marks almost unified Republican support for Benjamin Netanyahu's government, along with strong, but more divided, public Democratic discomfort with Obama's policies in the region.

 

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/041...ael_letter.html

 

 

The special interests, lobbyists and the cash suppliers are flexing their muscles as would be normal in this scenario. The good thing about his is that Obama must actually be doing something to get this response.

[Dr Gloom 22143]

Israel: Defying all odds

[Park Life 71]

Israel: Defying all odds

[Rob W 0]

Obama would go down in history if he secured a workable Palestinian state with full rights of independence. History awaits.

 

 

probably go down like Ghandi, Martin Luther King, the Israeli PM .................

 

Rob you can't thwack me on one board about conspiracy and then make comments like I'm prone to on another board. Now which is it to be??!1

 

 

You assume that the Rob W's are the same...................

[Guest alex]

Because the patter's the same.......................