Israel continues its merciless pounding of the defenceless.

[Park Life 71]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

 

of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ

 

 

Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state.

The Jews in any significant numbers themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth.

The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq.

The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up.

 

Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan.

Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons.

They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines.

 

Palestine is actually a Roman corruption of the word Phillistine iirc.

 

 

 

Gloom,

 

If you come into this thread and start shooting your mouth off it might be wise to have some scant understanding of the topic first.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Park Life

[PaddockLad 17281]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

 

of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ

 

 

Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state.

The Jews in any significant numbers themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth.

The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq.

The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up.

 

Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan.

Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons.

They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines.

 

Palestine is actually a Roman corruption of the word Phillistine iirc.

 

 

 

Gloom,

 

If you come into this thread and start shooting your mouth off it might be wise to have some scant understanding of the topic first.

 

who lived in Judea then?

[Park Life 71]

The Popular Peoples Front of Judea!

[PaddockLad 17281]

The Popular Peoples Front of Judea!

 

Wasnt it the Populat Front for the People of Judea?

 

Can I tempt you with an ocelot's earlobe this evening?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

 

That statement is patently untrue. The lands were inhabited my a mix of hitites, Palestinians (Philistines), Some Romans, Arabs of various backgrounds as well as Jews.

 

"Nor can Israel’s right to the land be demonstrated by reference to the Balfour Declaration (1917), for Palestine belonged to its inhabitants, not to the British Foreign Minister. Freedom from British colonial rule was certainly more of a right of the Palestinians in 1917 than of the British citizens of America in 1776. Assuming the right of peoples to self-determination, Arab Palestine was not for the British to give to the Zionists. Finally, justice does not presuppose that if A oppresses B, then B may oppress C; thus, the genocidal policies against Jews by German Nazis would not justify Jewish Zionist punishment of Palestinian Arabs. Victims of the Holocaust have claims for compensation and territory against former supporters of Nazism, not against guiltless Palestinian peasants."

 

of course it isn't. the jews have lived in israel since the birth of christ

 

 

Historically of course there is a big questionmark against the land that has been given to make the Israeli state.

The Jews in any significant numbers themselves never actually lived in that area and it is biblical hocum that has engendered this myth.

The true Jewish homeland would have been more accurately sited in Egypt and there are traces in Iraq.

The homeland of the Jews in the area we now know as Israel is pretty much made up.

 

Ther original Jews were semetic tribes with a wide diaspora incorporating ancient Mesapotamia, parts of what is now Egypt, Iraq and Jordan.

Their faith was pretty much 'mysticism' and they had trading links to Asia minor. They were often caravan bound and had strong trading and tribal traditons.

They 'arrived' in Jerusalem 14thC B.C. (inhabted at the time by the Canannites, Hittities and Philistines)and were given a beating by the Philistines.

 

Palestine is actually a Roman corruption of the word Phillistine iirc.

 

 

 

Gloom,

 

If you come into this thread and start shooting your mouth off it might be wise to have some scant understanding of the topic first.

 

shooting my mouth off? you're the one with the anti-israel agenda. if you make the effort to re-read my post you'll see that i am saying that i can see both sides of argument.

 

i have a lot of sympathy for the innocent people in gaza that killed by the idf. the number of casualties was sickening.

 

equally i feel sorry for my family that live in israel. some of them have lost friends to terrorist attacks. for years they have had to hget on with their life never knowing when the next terrorist suicide bomber will strike a city centre target, hitting as many innocent civilians as possible. lets be clear, suicide bombers do not attack military targets. family of mine had to leave their home in haifa when the hizbollah were shelling israeli territory a few years back.

 

i have little sympathy for the brain washed wackos that think that by blowing themselves up they will enter the afterlife with a harim of virgins waiting for them.

 

israel's response to the hamas rocket attacks was over the top and a lot of the global condemnation that followed was justified. but i repeat, israel HAD to respond. as any other sovereign state would. and despite the fact that you are a supporter of the arab cause you must accept that israel is a sovereign state, recognised by the un and the international community, apart from a few backward islamist states like iran, libya and syria

 

put yourself in the shoes of an innocent non-fundamentalist in israel.

 

if you're an innocent civilian living in israel, you're going to want your government and army to defend your country too.

[Happy Face 29]

Gotta feel for the Palestinians, shat on and nobody cares or is willing to say anything against the Jews - Jew are like the world's scousers, they think the world owes them but basically they're a bunch of cunts

Really? From what I've seen it's always Israel is a monster, Israel is the biggest threat to world peace etc and the new channels seem biased towards that view. There's always two sides to these war debates. People should feel sorry for the Jews as well given the persecution they have had to put up with for centuries/milleniums.

 

Erm.. I think a nation armed to the teeth bombing civilian districts with no air defense doesn't bear one iota of sympathy. It's barbaric and totally unwarranted and disproportionate. If America had any balls they would stop all aid to Israel immediately.

 

the bombing might have been an over-reaction and i agree it was heavy handed but it was a reaction to relentelss rockets being fired into israel.

 

Shall we examine civilian death counts on either sde?

 

i'm aware of it, and i agree that israel's reaction was too heavy handed but there had to be a reaction. what's the alternative? ignore the rockets that are fired into your territory? it's israel's right as a soverign state to protext itself from terrorist attacks. i doubt many countries across the world would ignore it.

 

Look at the maps mate.

 

You think those rockets being fired aren't themselves a tiny proportional response to that travesty that's been ongoing for 65 years?

 

EDIT: Also, "terrorist attacks" isn't the description, it's legitimate resistance.

 

legitimacy is moot - depends on which side you're on.

 

Legitimacy is not moot. If the rocket attacks were not legitimate responses to illegal occupation then they'd be terrorism. The BBC and Fox will paint it as terrorism and you'll lap it up as a balanced view of Israeli baddies versus Palestinian baddies. But ALL of the aggression in this situation is from Israeli colonialism. Palerstinians are not looking to expand the Gaza strip into Israel.

 

The Geneva Declaration on Terrorism states: “As repeatedly recognised by the United Nations General Assembly, peoples who are fighting against colonial domination and alien occupation and against racist regimes in the exercise of their right of self-determination have the right to use force to accomplish their objectives within the framework of international humanitarian law. Such lawful uses of force must not be confused with acts of international terrorism.”

 

the jewish people have lived in israel/palestine/call it what you will since biblical times. to them it has always been their home, even before the war of 1948 and declaration of independence. from the israeli standpoint, it's tempting to question whether the last 65 years could have been avoided if the arab nations had accepted the UN plan for a palestinian and jewish state side by side. but israel as we now know it IS a democratic sovereign state and because of that has the right to defend its borders from attacks.

 

from the arab pov, they have been displaced and are now fighting for their freedom against a much more powerful force. in their eyes, israel is the terrorist and their cause is legitimate.

 

personally, i feel sorry for the innocent people caught up in it on both sides. it seems like the conflict is going to go on and on, despite large numbers on both sides who crave a peaceful resolution. it's the fundamentalists on both sides that are to blame. the brain-washed suicide bombers on the arb side and the far right in the israeli government plus the orthodox jews who refuse to withdraw from the settlements.

 

Again, not so. Were the French Resistance that refused to surrender to German rule and sabotaged them at every opportunity fundamentalists? Most people would say the French that gave up sovereignty so easily were the cheese eating surrender monkeys, and those that didn't were heroes. There is no balanced view of both sides of the argument here. That's what the media push though, that it's a very difficult and complicated situation whereby both sides have a strong ethical point supporting their actions. It's far simpler than that, either you agree Israel have the right to create a state of apartheid and to do so by force (and a large number of Israeli jews don't at all, many within government), or you believe Palestinians have the right to oppose that.

 

but though israel's retaliation was heavy-handed , they had to do something. it seems excessive to us as outsiders but if you lived as an israeli with the threat of suicide bombers and rockets being fired into your homeland you would demand that something was done.

[Happy Face 29]

Listen to the heroes of Israel

 

The moral courage of Israeli dissidents.

 

I phoned Rami Elhanan the other day. We had not spoken for six years and much has happened in Israel and Palestine. Rami is an Israeli graphic designer who lives with his family in Jerusalem. His father survived Auschwitz. His grandparents and six aunts and uncles perished in the Holocaust. Whenever I am asked about heroes, I say Rami and his wife, Nurit, without hesitation.

 

Soon after we met, Rami gave me a home videotape that was difficult to watch. It shows his daughter Smadar, aged 14, throwing her head back, laughing and playing the piano. "She loved to dance," he said. On the afternoon of 4 September 1997, Smadar and her best friend, Sivane, had auditions for admission to a dance school. She had argued that morning with her mother, who was anxious about her going to the centre of Jerusalem. "I didn't want to row," said Nurit, "so I let her go."

 

Rami was in his car when he turned on the radio to catch the three o'clock news. There had been a suicide bombing in Ben Yehuda shopping precinct. More than 200 people were injured and several were dead. Within minutes, his mobile phone rang. It was Nurit, crying. They searched the hospitals in vain, then the morgue; and so began, as Rami describes it, their "descent into darkness".

 

Rami and Nurit are two of the founders of the Parents Circle, or Bereaved Families Forum, which brings together Israelis and Palestinians who have lost loved ones. "It's painful to acknowledge," he said, "but there is no basic moral difference between the [israeli] soldier at the checkpoint who prevents a woman who is having a baby from going through, causing her to lose the baby, and the man who killed my daughter. And just as my daughter was a victim [of the occupation], so was he." Rami describes the Israeli occupation and the dispossession of Palestinians as a "cancer in our heart". Nothing changes, he says, until the occupation ends.

 

Open your eyes

Every "Jerusalem Day" - the day Israel celebrates its military conquest of the city - Rami has stood in the street with a photograph of Smadar and crossed Israeli and Palestinian flags, and people have spat at him and told him it is a pity he was not blown up, too. And yet he and Nurit and their comrades have made ­extraordinary gains. Rami goes to Israeli schools with a Palestinian member of the group, and they show maps of what ought to be Palestine, and they hug each other. "This is like an earthquake to children who have been socialised and manipulated into hating," he said. "They say to us, 'You have opened my eyes.'"

 

In October, Rami and Nurit sat in the Israeli high court as the state counsel, "stammering, unprepared and unkempt", wrote Nurit, "stood like a platoon commander in charge of new recruits and refuted . . . allegations". Salwa and Bassam Aramin, Palestinian parents, were there, too. Tears streaked Salwa's face. Their ten-year-old daughter, Abir Aramin, was killed by an Israeli soldier firing a rubber bullet point-blank at her small head as she stood beside a kiosk buying sweets with her sister. The judges seemed bored and one of them remarked that Israeli soldiers were rarely indicted, so it would be best to forget it. The state counsel laughed. This was normal.

 

“Our children," said Nurit, at a rally last December to mark the first anniversary of the Israeli assault on Gaza, "have learned this year that all the disgusting qualities which anti-Semites attribute to Jews are actually manifested among our leaders: deceit, greed and the murder of children . . . What values of beauty and goodness can we squeeze into such a sophisticated apparatus of brainwashing and reality distortion?"

 

Rami now tells me the high court has decided to investigate the case of Abir Aramin after all. This is not normal: it is a victory. “Where are the other victories?" I asked him.

 

“In America last year, a Palestinian and I spoke five times a day in front of thousands. There is a big shift in American public opinion, and that's where the hope lies. It's only pressure from outside Israel - from Jews especially - that will end this nightmare. People in the west must know that while there is a silence, this looking away, this profane abuse of Israel's critics as anti-Jew, they are no different from those who stood aside during the days of the Holocaust."

 

Guilty silence

Since Israel's onslaught on Lebanon in 2006, its devastation of Gaza in 2008-2009, and Mossad's recent political murder in Dubai, the criminality of the Israeli state has been impossible to disguise. On 11 February, the influential Reut Institute in Tel Aviv reported to the Israeli cabinet, which it advises, that violence had failed to achieve Israel's ends and had produced worldwide revulsion instead.

 

“In last year's Gaza operation," the report said, "our superior military power was offset by an offensive on Israel's legitimacy that led to a significant setback in our international standing and will constrain future Israeli military planning and operations." In other words, proof of the murderous, racist toll of Zionism has been an epiphany for many people; justice for the Palestinians, wrote the expatriate Israeli musician Gilad Atzmon, is now "at the heart of the battle for a better world".

 

However, his fellow Jews in western countries, such as Britain and Australia, whose influence is critical, are still mostly silent, still looking away, still accepting, as Nurit said, the "brainwashing and reality distortion".

 

And yet the responsibility to speak out could not be clearer, and the lessons of history - family history for many - ensure that it renders them culpable should their silence persist. For inspiration, I recommend the moral courage of Rami and Nurit.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/international-...rael-rami-nurit

[Happy Face 29]

Israel's ambassador to the US has said that relations between the two countries face their worst crisis for 35 years, the Israeli media reported.

 

Last week Israeli officials announced the building of 1,600 new homes in occupied East Jerusalem while US Vice-President Joe Biden was visiting.

 

Since the announcement, Palestinian leaders have said that indirect talks with Israel are now "doubtful".

 

Previously the Israeli government had played down the strain in relations.

 

But the Ambassador to the US, Michael Oren, told a conference call with Israeli consuls general in the US that "the crisis was very serious and we are facing a very difficult period in relations", the Israeli media reported on Monday.

 

On Friday Mr Oren was summoned to the State Department and was reprimanded about the affair, Ynet reported.

 

The Israeli Ynet News website quoted the ambassador as saying "Israel's ties with the US are in the most serious crisis since 1975".

 

The Haaretz newspaper said the quote had been reported to them by four of the Israeli consuls general following the conference call on Saturday.

 

Mr Oren had appeared "tense and pessimistic", the consuls general told the newspaper.

 

They were instructed to lobby members of congress and Jewish community leaders and tell them Israel had not intended to cause offence.

 

"These instructions come from the highest level in Jerusalem," Haaretz quoted Mr Oren as saying.

 

The Israeli embassy in Washington has not yet commented publicly on the story.

 

In 1975, US-Israeli relations were strained by a demand from then US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger that Israel's Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin partially withdraw its troops from the Sinai Peninsula, where they had been since the 1967 Six-Day War.

 

'Insult'

 

On Sunday a top aide to US President Barack Obama said Israel's announcement of plans to build 1,600 homes for Jews in East Jerusalem was "destructive" to peace efforts.

 

David Axelrod said the move, which overshadowed Mr Biden's visit to Israel, was also an "insult" to the United States.

 

Just hours before the announcement Mr Biden had emphasised how close relations were, saying there was "no space" between Israel and the US.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has tried to play down the unusually bitter diplomatic row between the two allies.

 

He said the announcement was a "bureaucratic mix-up" and that he "deeply regretted" the timing of the announcement.

 

Under the Israeli plans, the new homes will be built in Ramat Shlomo in East Jerusalem.

 

The Palestinians are threatening to boycott newly agreed, indirect talks unless the Ramat Shlomo project is cancelled.

 

Close to 500,000 Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The settlements are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this.

 

The pet rottweiler is off the leash and is going to maul the baby.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8567706.stm

Edited March 15, 2010 by Happy Face

[Park Life 71]

Watching with interest.

[Rob W 0]

Eisenhower, Nixon & Reagan all suddenly stopped delivering planned arms - but they were Republicans

 

mind I wouldn't want to cross mrs Clinton.......................

[Park Life 71]

Parky radar has picked up some dissonance in Washington regarding Is Ra El ...something is up...

[Happy Face 29]

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has called on Israel to make "difficult but necessary choices" if it wants a peace agreement with the Palestinians.

 

Mrs Clinton warned that the status quo was "unsustainable" in a speech to a pro-Israel lobby group.

 

Her comments come amid a dispute between the US and Israel over plans for 1,600 new homes in East Jerusalem.

 

On Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu ruled out halting settlement construction in the city.

 

 

ANALYSIS

By Jeremy Bowen, Middle East editor, BBC News

 

 

In the end there was no booing, which some had expected. The audience of 7,500 activists from one of the strongest political lobbies in America interrupted Secretary Clinton's speech with applause more than 25 times.

They liked her tough words about Iran. But they were largely silent as she explained why the US had condemned Israel's latest plans to build for Jews on occupied territory in Jerusalem. She presented the Obama administration as an unshakeable friend of Israel, unafraid to give it straight advice about its best interests.

 

The status quo, she said, was not sustainable, even some in Israel thought that it was. Without going into too much detail, she sketched out the settlement the US wanted - a Palestinian state alongside Israel, living in peace, with borders based on the ceasefire line that held until Israel captured the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1967.

 

Jerusalem, at the centre of the recent row between the US and Israel, needed a solution that would realise the aspirations of both sides, she said. That's code for a Palestinian capital as well as an Israeli one. Easy to talk about, very hard to achieve.

 

The Palestinian Authority is furious at Israel's insistence on building on occupied territory. It sees it as a serious stumbling block to the resumption of talks, which have been stalled for more than a year.

 

Nearly 500,000 Jews live in more than 100 settlements built since Israel's 1967 occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem. They are held to be illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this.

 

In her speech to a convention in Washington of the influential Aipac (American Israel Public Affairs Committee), Mrs Clinton underscored the Obama administration's "rock solid" commitment to Israel.

 

"Guaranteeing Israel's security is more than a policy position for me. It is a personal commitment that will never waver," she said.

 

 

But, she added, it is Washington's "responsibility to give credit when it is due and to tell the truth when it is needed".

 

Mrs Clinton has demanded Mr Netanyahu move to restore confidence in the peace process, including extending the suspension of new building in the West Bank to include East Jerusalem.

 

In a telephone call on Friday, the Israeli prime minister proposed a series of "trust-building measures" that represented "a real effort" to aid US peace efforts.

 

Although details have not yet been made public, Israeli officials say these include an agreement to discuss all outstanding issues in the indirect "proximity talks" being mediated by US special envoy George Mitchell.

 

However Israel will not discuss a freeze on settlement construction in Jerusalem.

 

"As far as we are concerned, building in Jerusalem is like building in Tel Aviv," Mr Netanyahu told his cabinet on Sunday.

 

But Mrs Clinton warned in her speech to Aipac that the "status quo is unsustainable for all sides" and "promises only violence and unrealised aspirations".

 

"There is another path - a path that leads toward security and prosperity for all the people of the region. It will require all parties including Israel to make difficult but necessary choices," she said.

 

Mrs Clinton also spoke of the need for sanctions against Iran over its nuclear programme.

 

She called for "sanctions that will bite".

 

Iran says its nuclear programme is for peaceful, civilian use, but the US disagrees.

 

"Let me be very clear: The United States is determined to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons," the secretary of state said.

 

If Iran developed a nuclear weapon, it would embolden terrorists and spark an arms race that would destabilise the Middle East, Mrs Clinton said.

 

"This is unacceptable to the United States, unacceptable to Israel and unacceptable to the region and the international community," she added.

 

The US and its allies have been pressing for sanctions on Iran, but China and Russia have so far resisted them.

 

Talks sought

 

Mr Obama's Middle East envoy, George Mitchell, is back in the region.

 

Speaking in the Jordanian capital, Amman, he said the US was seeking an early resumption of the stalled indirect talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

 

After meeting the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Mr Mitchell urged the two sides to exercise restraint.

 

His latest visit comes amid increased tension between Israel and the Palestinians.

 

On Sunday, Israeli soldiers shot dead two Palestinians in the West Bank. The circumstances were unclear, but one report said the soldiers opened fire when the Palestinians tried to stab them.

 

Two Palestinian youths were killed by Israeli troops on Saturday following violent clashes with Jewish settlers.

 

Mr Netanyahu is due to meet President Barack Obama in Washington on Tuesday during a visit which will also see him address Aipac members.

 

Weak as piss.

[Park Life 71]

That is a disgrace, but other things are brewing in the background.

 

US ISRAELI RELATIONSHIP ABOUT TO CHANGE DRAMATICALLY.

[Meenzer 15531]

That is a disgrace, but other things are brewing in the background.

 

US ISRAELI RELATIONSHIP ABOUT TO CHANGE DRAMATICALLY.

 

Can you make it so that scrolls across the bottom of the screen, Sky Sports Breaking News style?

[Park Life 71]

That is a disgrace, but other things are brewing in the background.

 

US ISRAELI RELATIONSHIP ABOUT TO CHANGE DRAMATICALLY.

 

Can you make it so that scrolls across the bottom of the screen, Sky Sports Breaking News style?

 

[ewerk 30620]

Britain expels Israeli diplomat over Dubai passport row

 

The UK is to expel an Israeli diplomat over the use of twelve cloned British passports in a Dubai murder, the BBC has learned.

 

Foreign Secretary David Miliband will make a statement to Parliament later.

 

Israel has said there is no proof that its agents were behind the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in a Dubai hotel room in January.

 

Diplomatic sources stressed the British government has stopped short of accusing Israel of the murder.

 

However Mr Miliband had demanded that Israel co-operate fully with the investigation into how the passports were obtained.

 

The foreign secretary is to make the statement after Britain's Serious Organised Crime Agency found proof of the cloned passports, said BBC correspondent Jeremy Bowen.

 

Strong message

 

Diplomatic sources stressed the British government was not accusing Israel of involvement in the killing, our correspondent added.

 

He also said that the diplomat to be expelled would not be Israel's ambassador to London, Ron Prosor.

 

However the expulsion is bound to send a very strong message of Britain's displeasure at the cloning of UK passports.

 

Last month Mr Miliband described the use of fake UK passports as an "outrage" and vowed that the inquiry would "get to the bottom" of the affair.

 

Twelve fake British passports were used in the murder of Mr Mabhouh - the founder of Hamas's military wing - in his hotel room in Dubai on 19 January.

 

Dubai officials said they are "99% certain" that agents from Israeli secret service Mossad were behind the killing but Tel Aviv has refused to confirm or deny the allegations.

 

Other members of the hit squad travelled on fake Irish, French and Australian travel documents, Dubai police said.

 

Following his death, Mr Mabhouh's family said medical teams that examined him determined he had died after receiving a massive electric shock to the head. They also found evidence that he had been strangled.

 

Blood samples sent to a French laboratory confirmed he was killed by electric shock, after which the body was sent to Syria, they said.

 

Thousands of people attended Mr Mabhouh's funeral at the Yarmouk Palestinian refugee camp, on the outskirts of Damascus in January.

 

A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: "The Foreign Secretary will make a statement to the House of the Commons this afternoon at 1530 GMT."

[Park Life 71]

Obama will step upto the plate this week. Let's see what he's made of.

[Park Life 71]

Obama snubs press pics and no comments made after Netanyahoo meet. He was in there a long time.

[Billy Castell 0]

No US President will really go to town on Israel, as the 'Jewish vote' is pretty potent. There are enough people who see any negative comment on Israel's actions as 'anti-Semitic' to make them wary of stringent sanctions and strong words.

 

I am confused why Israel seem to be going out of their way to piss off their allies in the West over so many issues. I hope we unite and put the boot into Israel and say that there needs to be a proper Palestinian state with no settlements or else all help will be stopped, and we'll leave Iran to get on with their dirty tricks.

[Happy Face 29]

No US President will really go to town on Israel, as the 'Jewish vote' is pretty potent. There are enough people who see any negative comment on Israel's actions as 'anti-Semitic' to make them wary of stringent sanctions and strong words.

 

I am confused why Israel seem to be going out of their way to piss off their allies in the West over so many issues. I hope we unite and put the boot into Israel and say that there needs to be a proper Palestinian state with no settlements or else all help will be stopped, and we'll leave Iran to get on with their dirty tricks.

 

The numbers have dropped massively over the past year though.

 

A new Rasmussen Poll found that only 58% of Americans now view "Israel as an ally" -- down from 70% just nine months ago. The same poll found that 49% of Americans believe Israel should be "required" to stop building settlements, with only 22% disagreeing.

 

Seems people are getting far more informed on the middle east after waging war for almost a decade in the area. I include myself in that by the way. 5 years ago I wouldn't have had a clue as to what was going on over there....but I 'd have said Israel were looking out for us, when all they do is fan the flames.

[Park Life 71]

No US President will really go to town on Israel, as the 'Jewish vote' is pretty potent. There are enough people who see any negative comment on Israel's actions as 'anti-Semitic' to make them wary of stringent sanctions and strong words.

 

I am confused why Israel seem to be going out of their way to piss off their allies in the West over so many issues. I hope we unite and put the boot into Israel and say that there needs to be a proper Palestinian state with no settlements or else all help will be stopped, and we'll leave Iran to get on with their dirty tricks.

 

The numbers have dropped massively over the past year though.

 

A new Rasmussen Poll found that only 58% of Americans now view "Israel as an ally" -- down from 70% just nine months ago. The same poll found that 49% of Americans believe Israel should be "required" to stop building settlements, with only 22% disagreeing.

 

Seems people are getting far more informed on the middle east after waging war for almost a decade in the area. I include myself in that by the way. 5 years ago I wouldn't have had a clue as to what was going on over there....but I 'd have said Israel were looking out for us, when all they do is fan the flames.

 

I remember when you used to have a pop at me for highlighting this topic ad naseum.

[Happy Face 29]

No US President will really go to town on Israel, as the 'Jewish vote' is pretty potent. There are enough people who see any negative comment on Israel's actions as 'anti-Semitic' to make them wary of stringent sanctions and strong words.

 

I am confused why Israel seem to be going out of their way to piss off their allies in the West over so many issues. I hope we unite and put the boot into Israel and say that there needs to be a proper Palestinian state with no settlements or else all help will be stopped, and we'll leave Iran to get on with their dirty tricks.

 

The numbers have dropped massively over the past year though.

 

A new Rasmussen Poll found that only 58% of Americans now view "Israel as an ally" -- down from 70% just nine months ago. The same poll found that 49% of Americans believe Israel should be "required" to stop building settlements, with only 22% disagreeing.

 

Seems people are getting far more informed on the middle east after waging war for almost a decade in the area. I include myself in that by the way. 5 years ago I wouldn't have had a clue as to what was going on over there....but I 'd have said Israel were looking out for us, when all they do is fan the flames.

 

I remember when you used to have a pop at me for highlighting this topic ad naseum.

 

Cos you're anti-semitic with it

 

[Park Life 71]

Reading around a bit, it looks like the exchanges between Netanyahu and Obama were less than pleasant, perhaps Obama has laid down the old...so far and no further doctrine (we can but hope).

[Rob W 0]

bit extreme - not posing for a picture - I mean - that's REALLY going to hurt the Zionists

[Park Life 71]

bit extreme - not posing for a picture - I mean - that's REALLY going to hurt the Zionists

 

In diplomatic circles it's quite the rebuke apparently.