Guest Stevie Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 The funeral is to be held in Greece of a 15-year-old boy whose shooting by police has provoked nationwide rioting. Hundreds of buildings have been torched and dozens of people have been injured in three days of riots sparked by the death of Alexandros Grigoropoulos. Scores of arrests have been reported, but police fear there could be further unrest when the funeral takes place in an Athens suburb at 1500 (1300 GMT). Schools are shut for the funeral and leaders are holding crisis meetings. Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis has held talks with President Karolos Papoulias and is also due to meet opposition leaders in an attempt to reach a consensus on what action to take. After an emergency cabinet meeting on Monday, Interior Minister Prokopis Pavlopoulos said the government would not put up with the violence. But appeals for calm have so far been largely ignored by the mostly young protesters, and plans as to how the violence should be contained remain unclear. Police at bay The prime minister vowed on Tuesday morning there would be no leniency in dealing with the rioters. Rebellion deeply embedded In pictures: Greek riots Eyewitness: Athens riot Read your comments Earlier, he said his government was obliged to protect the community while calling for a sense of solidarity with the Grigoropoulos family. "The unacceptable and dangerous events that have gone on under the most extreme of emotions cannot and must not be tolerated," he said. However, police appear to be powerless to prevent rioters from attacking symbols of wealth and prestige in Athens, the BBC's Malcolm Brabant reports. A clean-up was under way after protesters wielding petrol bombs set fire to banks, shops, hotels vehicles, rubbish bins and even the city's giant Christmas tree in central Syntagma Square. "Rage is what I feel for what has happened, rage," said a student taking part in the protests. "This cop who did it must see what is to kill a kid and to destroy a life." Violent clashes have been reported in towns and cities across the country, spreading to Rhodes and Crete on Monday. Police stations were attacked in Piraeus and Corfu. Hundreds of students clashed with riot police in Thessaloniki, Greece's second biggest city, where students used university buildings to stockpile petrol bombs. No troops With widespread reports of looting, Mr Karamanlis blamed "extreme elements" for taking advantage of the situation to engage in vandalism, and pledged to compensate businesses damaged. Hundreds of rioters have set fire to vehicles and property in central Athens He did not say what the government's plans were to handle the crisis after Monday's emergency cabinet meeting. Observers say a state of emergency may be imposed, giving the authorities special powers to clear the streets. But there is no question of calling in troops, our correspondent says: Greece has bitter memories of military rule so seeing troops on streets would be beyond the pale. Two police officers have been arrested in connection with Alexandros Grigoropoulos's death on Saturday, but results of a post-mortem to determine the trajectory of the bullet that killed him are not yet known. The officer who fired contends it was a ricochet from a warning shot but witnesses told Greek TV it was a direct hit. It begs the question should police have guns at all? There are so many corrupt OB, I know because my OB tells me, so many who take liberties and putting guns in the hands of OB isn't on. I think these riots originally started due to immigrants receiving unfair treatment, surely they know the solution??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Greece knows only too well the problem with police, they still remember how they were used under the dictatorship of 40 years ago. But yes, routinely arming police with guns (or tasers for that matter) is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Well it's a few disparate groups, but having said that, like I said before, they know you have to keep control of of your police, or you end up in a police state. Which is A good reason why the Commons should be the superior power to the police in the UK (as it is elected), and it always has been (well since the Civil War) until the Green affair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Well it's a few disparate groups, but having said that, like I said before, they know you have to keep control of of your police, or you end up in a police state. Which is A good reason why the Commons should be the superior power to the police in the UK (as it is elected), and it always has been (well since the Civil War) until the Green affair. Do you think riotters really think like that? Do you reckon the Meadowell ones were fighting for civil liberties for example? Also, it's difficult to gauge this from afar but I could just imagine this being groups of trouble makers akin to the anarchist groups you get in this country who are normally filled with people just up for a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Well it's a few disparate groups, but having said that, like I said before, they know you have to keep control of of your police, or you end up in a police state. Which is A good reason why the Commons should be the superior power to the police in the UK (as it is elected), and it always has been (well since the Civil War) until the Green affair. Do you think riotters really think like that? Do you reckon the Meadowell ones were fighting for civil liberties for example? Also, it's difficult to gauge this from afar but I could just imagine this being groups of trouble makers akin to the anarchist groups you get in this country who are normally filled with people just up for a fight. In Greece? Certainly, because of their history (although like I said it's also being stoked by a wide range of groups there). In something like the Paris riots, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Well it's a few disparate groups, but having said that, like I said before, they know you have to keep control of of your police, or you end up in a police state. Which is A good reason why the Commons should be the superior power to the police in the UK (as it is elected), and it always has been (well since the Civil War) until the Green affair. Do you think riotters really think like that? Do you reckon the Meadowell ones were fighting for civil liberties for example? Also, it's difficult to gauge this from afar but I could just imagine this being groups of trouble makers akin to the anarchist groups you get in this country who are normally filled with people just up for a fight. In Greece? Certainly, because of their history (although like I said it's also being stoked by a wide range of groups there). In something like the Paris riots, not so much. Some might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I would imagine most of the arseholes riotting couldn't give a fuck about the tragic death of the kid. Well it's a few disparate groups, but having said that, like I said before, they know you have to keep control of of your police, or you end up in a police state. Which is A good reason why the Commons should be the superior power to the police in the UK (as it is elected), and it always has been (well since the Civil War) until the Green affair. Do you think riotters really think like that? Do you reckon the Meadowell ones were fighting for civil liberties for example? Also, it's difficult to gauge this from afar but I could just imagine this being groups of trouble makers akin to the anarchist groups you get in this country who are normally filled with people just up for a fight. In Greece? Certainly, because of their history (although like I said it's also being stoked by a wide range of groups there). In something like the Paris riots, not so much. Some might. A lot do, it's pretty much "cultural" still. You wouldn't get it here, because we're so blasé about our rights and freedoms (because we've never really had them tested in a very long time), but a few years of police state, random abduction, torture and imprisonment could work wonders (which maybe is Brown and Smith's plan ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". That's just like here though, you can have an incident that is a catalyst for riots, but it's really more about socio-economic malaise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". That's just like here though, you can have an incident that is a catalyst for riots, but it's really more about socio-economic malaise. Again to a degree, but without Greece's history it would be nothing like as strong. Was there a riot when that girl was mown down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". That's just like here though, you can have an incident that is a catalyst for riots, but it's really more about socio-economic malaise. Again to a degree, but without Greece's history it would be nothing like as strong. Was there a riot when that girl was mown down? A RTA is a bit different to a shooting tbf. And I'd point to Meadowell again. Not something on this scale but it did kick off rioting all over Newcastle over a number of nights iirc. I'm not quite sure what you're saying though. Are you making a case for the Greeks being culturally unique or markedly different when it comes to reasons for rioting? Is this because of their recent history? Genuine questions btw. Edited December 9, 2008 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". That's just like here though, you can have an incident that is a catalyst for riots, but it's really more about socio-economic malaise. Again to a degree, but without Greece's history it would be nothing like as strong. Was there a riot when that girl was mown down? A RTA is a bit different to a shooting tbf. And I'd point to Meadowell again. Not something on this scale but it did kick off rioting all over Newcastle over a number of nights iirc. I'm not quite sure what you're saying though. Are you making a case for the Greeks being culturally unique or markedly different when it comes to reasons for rioting? Is this because of their recent history? Genuine questions btw. That they still have a "cultural" distrust of the police, because of their still fairly recent history, as I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I can't remember hearing about serious rioting in Greece before. Not in recent times. Seems a bit odd to label it as 'cultural'. The last ones this big were in the mid-90's IIRC, things adding to this being the current Government and the downturn. It probably doesn't help that their police are still classed as "military". That's just like here though, you can have an incident that is a catalyst for riots, but it's really more about socio-economic malaise. Again to a degree, but without Greece's history it would be nothing like as strong. Was there a riot when that girl was mown down? A RTA is a bit different to a shooting tbf. And I'd point to Meadowell again. Not something on this scale but it did kick off rioting all over Newcastle over a number of nights iirc. I'm not quite sure what you're saying though. Are you making a case for the Greeks being culturally unique or markedly different when it comes to reasons for rioting? Is this because of their recent history? Genuine questions btw. That they still have a "cultural" distrust of the police, because of their still fairly recent history, as I said. Aye, I'd rather be arrested in the UK tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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