Kevin Keegan

[Fop 1]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

And when he walked changes were made by that structure to correct the reason(s) for him walking. Thats why he came back, the board then had good enough sense to see that he was more important to the club than them.

 

I was talking about when we became a PLC in '97 and Dalglish came in.

 

If they'd backed/supported Keegan then in the way he'd been promised/wanted we'd have won the league and might be sitting firmly in the Top 4 at present.

 

Robson did very well, but the PLC was the beginning of the end in many ways (it was when the money became ALL), it need not have been, but it was.

[Fop 1]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

I suppose in a way you're right mate and we're all in the same boat. One thing that does stand out though is that Ashley must be fucking clueless if he thought KK was just going to sit there like a lapdog and take Wise and Co running things. He's probably the one manager (particularly at NUFC) who would go along with it.

 

Well that bit is something we can definitely agree on. I am not prone to violence but that man needs a good Chinese burn. Are you allowed to say that these days btw?

 

The way I look at it is (and this is obviously with a degree of guesswork) KK didn't need to come back, but he came back because he was sold a vision, when that vision turned out to be a pack of lies with his role becoming increasingly undermined and more peripheral in terms of influence he walked. That has left the club in a state but it's a symptom rather than a root cause, if you like, of the real problem.

 

That is a good point in context. It wasn't like Keegan was a budding manager who needed the work. I imagine that he was sold the job in very rosey terms and his heart (Keegan's) carried him along when doubts first starting to show. It's easy to overlook things when you don't want to see them.

 

 

Ah, I just can't believe it all came crashing down again. I remember consciously savouring the fact that Keegan was our manager again and that we had a "proper" manager once more who understood the unique blend of hope, failure, romance, excitement and "fuck you all!" that NUFC is.

 

 

Just a few things done differently and whilst we wouldn't be ruling the world, it all could have been pretty pleasant.

[TheMoog 0]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

 

So true mate, that the saddest thing for me. I think tbh we're all in agreement that Mike Ashley is THE devil incarnate though.

[Asprilla 96]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

 

So true mate, that the saddest thing for me. I think tbh we're all in agreement that Mike Ashley is THE devil incarnate though.

Yeah, I'm just venting after another weekend where we shot ourselves in the foot.

 

 

 

 

What a club eh?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maggiespaws 0]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

 

Because it was him who decided to walk rather than stay and find a way of working within the structure.

 

 

I don't understand how people are so in awe of Keegan that he can do no wrong. We ALL have b/s to deal with in life, but it seems to me that Keegan's first resort is to walk away rather than stay and compromise or work to find a solution.

 

 

Either way, we're fucked now and neither party has had the courtesy to talk to the fans who ultimately are the ones suffering.

 

Keegan will get a few million quid, the good players will move on to pastures new with a hefty signing on fee, Kinnear gets another shot at the big tim, Ashley still owns the club and we get to follow a team fighting a relegation battle. Yay.

Rather than saying KK can do no wrong I'm laying the vast majority of the blame at a regime which has continually lied, moved the goalposts and no manager worth his salt would work under (the support from Wenger and Ferguson suggests as much).

 

That's the crux of it for me. There is a lot of truth in the fact that it's unlikely we'd be in this position if KK hadn't walked. I can see the point some people are making on this and it's difficult to prove otherwise.

 

The fact remains though, he was undermined and he was the one who had to face the music for actions which were not his own.

 

MA had the opportunity to sort this and if he had, we would have been better off. He backed the wrong horse and now we all have to suffer.

Edited December 9, 2008 by maggiespaws

[maggiespaws 0]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

 

Here's a 'what if' (which is really all we have to go on).

 

What if KK had been trying to sort it out. I don't agree he should have gone to the press and cried about it - that's not what a grown man should do. We know there had been issues between KK and MA et for a few months before he left. What if, in those few months he was actually trying to come to some kind of agreement (after all, it's clear he loved the club - so why wouldn't he). What if, after spending 3 months or whatever trying to come to an agreement, MA was just sitting there saying "No, No, No? My way or fuck off."

 

At that point does he have much choice? Carry on being part of something you do not agree with, have no say in or any control over or walk away and let someone else who is happy to work under that structure come in and do a better job.

 

If you don't agree with the plan, how can you do the best job of implementing it?

Edited December 9, 2008 by maggiespaws

[peasepud 59]

the actions of the board since the event should have convinced even the staunchest KK critics yet it seems not

[bobbyshinton 59]

Just stumbled into this thread now. Yet again some of the so-called fans of this club are absolutely embarrassing themselves. We need to wait till everything comes out I agree, but until then we have to go by our better judgment, and at the end of the day what has Mike Ashley done to prove he's more worthy of being trusted with regards to Newcastle United rather than Kevin Keegan?

Hear fucking hear. Quite right Jonny.

 

i'm all aboard this ship, as much as i love keegan, quite blatently all the facts aren't out yet and until they are i'd rather see the money go towards the club and players transfers than somtething in the blur. as much as keegan walked out on us for his reasons, he still walked out and until i hear all sides [which unortunatly won't be until after the payout] i'm sticking with the clubs benefits first,

 

 

ditto

[ChezGiven 0]

I think we all agree Ashley has been a fucking disaster and has never shown anything other than a lack of understanding of how to run a football club let alone one like ours.

 

I do have a wry smile on my face when i see the hatred pouring off the page towards him as it seems the pantomine villain has just changed his mask and we have a new figurehead of hate to vent our frustrations on. Plus ca change and all that.

 

I also feel like a jilted lover when it comes to Keegan. As much as i can understand why the relationship ended, i cant help feeling the same as Asprilla, "we could have worked it out". I believe we wouldnt be facing relegation if we had managed to hold it together. The events at Spurs would have more than likely changed Ashley's thinking before January and it would be him with £12m on his hands to spend. Maybe...

[peasepud 59]

Or more likely it would have been keegan watching owen, given, viduka, Barton, harper and a host of others be pushed out of the door.

[Asprilla 96]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

 

Here's a 'what if' (which is really all we have to go on).

 

What if KK had been trying to sort it out. I don't agree he should have gone to the press and cried about it - that's not what a grown man should do. We know there had been issues between KK and MA et for a few months before he left. What if, in those few months he was actually trying to come to some kind of agreement (after all, it's clear he loved the club - so why wouldn't he). What if, after spending 3 months or whatever trying to come to an agreement, MA was just sitting there saying "No, No, No? My way or fuck off."

 

At that point does he have much choice? Carry on being part of something you do not agree with, have no say in or any control over or walk away and let someone else who is happy to work under that structure come in and do a better job.

 

If you don't agree with the plan, how can you do the best job of implementing it?

It's a never ending argument tbh because both parts of it are true.

 

I don't think anyone would argue that we'd be doing worse if Keegan were still here. Also nobody is saying fat Mike is in the right.

 

Like I said earlier I'm just venting because I've got no other way of getting the sheer frustration off my chest. I realise that season ticket holders in Aberdeen have even more right to feel aggrieved so I'm not feeling hard done by. It's just a little piece of life that can make a big difference to your state of mind and after so many years of rubbish I thought we were on the right track.

 

 

We're not though and God only knows when it will get better. I'm just saying that if Keegan WERE still here I'd be happier.

 

 

If I still smoked I'd probably fire up the bong but I don't so I'll probably just go and make some toast or something.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2008 by Asprilla

[Fop 1]

Or more likely it would have been keegan watching owen, given, viduka, Barton, harper and a host of others be pushed out of the door.

 

I have to wonder what sort of job Keegan could do under those circumstances as well. A lot of his "power" comes from his own belief, confidence and vision, it's a bit like those last England games, it seemed like he thought they couldn't win.

[Monkeys Fist 42428]

I think we all agree Ashley has been a fucking disaster and has never shown anything other than a lack of understanding of how to run a football club let alone one like ours.

 

I do have a wry smile on my face when i see the hatred pouring off the page towards him as it seems the pantomine villain has just changed his mask and we have a new figurehead of hate to vent our frustrations on. Plus ca change and all that.

 

I also feel like a jilted lover when it comes to Keegan. As much as i can understand why the relationship ended, i cant help feeling the same as Asprilla, "we could have worked it out". I believe we wouldnt be facing relegation if we had managed to hold it together. The events at Spurs would have more than likely changed Ashley's thinking before January and it would be him with £12m on his hands to spend. Maybe...

Keeping with the "lover" analogy, Keegan was like the slightly unhinged loon girlfriend - when you first get together it's exciting.You never know exactly what's going to happen, but the ride is fantastic.At the back of your mind tho, you know it'll come to an end, and when it does, it'll be dramatic.You just don't know when it'll happen, could be tomorrow, could be a few years .You also know, she'll be the one that dumps you.

It happened a lot sooner than most of us expected

Now , we're just shagging the deperate old boiler we pulled when out on the rebound

[LeazesMag 0]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

nah, it changed. They went PLC and people in grey suits from London started telling him how to manage the club ie interfering in the finance and team building structure.

[LeazesMag 0]

I think we all agree Ashley has been a fucking disaster and has never shown anything other than a lack of understanding of how to run a football club let alone one like ours.

 

I do have a wry smile on my face when i see the hatred pouring off the page towards him as it seems the pantomine villain has just changed his mask and we have a new figurehead of hate to vent our frustrations on. Plus ca change and all that.

 

I also feel like a jilted lover when it comes to Keegan. As much as i can understand why the relationship ended, i cant help feeling the same as Asprilla, "we could have worked it out". I believe we wouldnt be facing relegation if we had managed to hold it together. The events at Spurs would have more than likely changed Ashley's thinking before January and it would be him with £12m on his hands to spend. Maybe...

Keeping with the "lover" analogy, Keegan was like the slightly unhinged loon girlfriend - when you first get together it's exciting.You never know exactly what's going to happen, but the ride is fantastic .At the back of your mind tho, you know it'll come to an end, and when it does, it'll be dramatic.You just don't know when it'll happen, could be tomorrow, could be a few years .You also know, she'll be the one that dumps you.

It happened a lot sooner than most of us expected

Now , we're just shagging the deperate old boiler we pulled when out on the rebound

 

[Asprilla 96]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

nah, it changed. They went PLC and people in grey suits from London started telling him how to manage the club ie interfering in the finance and team building structure.

Who decided to make it a PLC though?

[LeazesMag 0]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

nah, it changed. They went PLC and people in grey suits from London started telling him how to manage the club ie interfering in the finance and team building structure.

Who decided to make it a PLC though?

 

is this relevant ?

 

If you think it is, I don't think you could blame Shepherd for that particular decision, although I'm sure some will try.

[Asprilla 96]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

nah, it changed. They went PLC and people in grey suits from London started telling him how to manage the club ie interfering in the finance and team building structure.

Who decided to make it a PLC though?

 

is this relevant ?

 

If you think it is, I don't think you could blame Shepherd for that particular decision, although I'm sure some will try.

 

I'm not blaming anyone as such, I'm just saying that the people who decided to float the club weren't in London. Once that was done it became like any other commodity and subject to the same principles as any bank, pharmaceutical or tobacco company. The "interfering" can hardly have been a surprise.

[Fop 1]

I think we all agree Ashley has been a fucking disaster and has never shown anything other than a lack of understanding of how to run a football club let alone one like ours.

 

I do have a wry smile on my face when i see the hatred pouring off the page towards him as it seems the pantomine villain has just changed his mask and we have a new figurehead of hate to vent our frustrations on. Plus ca change and all that.

 

I also feel like a jilted lover when it comes to Keegan. As much as i can understand why the relationship ended, i cant help feeling the same as Asprilla, "we could have worked it out". I believe we wouldnt be facing relegation if we had managed to hold it together. The events at Spurs would have more than likely changed Ashley's thinking before January and it would be him with £12m on his hands to spend. Maybe...

Keeping with the "lover" analogy, Keegan was like the slightly unhinged loon girlfriend - when you first get together it's exciting.You never know exactly what's going to happen, but the ride is fantastic.At the back of your mind tho, you know it'll come to an end, and when it does, it'll be dramatic.You just don't know when it'll happen, could be tomorrow, could be a few years .You also know, she'll be the one that dumps you.

It happened a lot sooner than most of us expected

Now , we're just shagging the deperate old boiler we pulled when out on the rebound

 

Nah, Keegan is just very high maintenance, although he defiantly partial to a flounce every now and again.