Kevin Keegan

[Fop 1]

Keegan shouldn't have walked out because if he'd stayed we'd be talking about who we might be signing in the transfer window from a position of momentum. Again, Ashley is the "mastermind" behind the failing and I'd like to see him have the guts to at least speak to the people he has betrayed, but I can't defend Keegan either because he didn't see the bigger picture. Of course he had a reason to be very fucking pissed off, but to leave us high and dry???

 

I think the club Keegan was sold wasn't the club he inherited. Both because of changing financial issues, and behind the scenes power struggles.

 

But I think people are too hung up on it being Keegan that walked away, Curbishly did the same, many (and most great) managers would have done the same.

 

You'd just never get Keegan carrying on in that sort of position, and I don't think he be the manager he should be if he'd tried.

[ChezGiven 0]

One quote that Keegan came out with stuck with me. "Mike ashley is a clever man, if you say something and then change it later, he'll pick you up on it". Said around April / May. Some of you may remember it. It gave me the impression at the time that Keegan was challenging how things were run.

[LeazesMag 0]

people keep saying Keegan should have maybe stayed on and bide his time etc.

 

because they didn't listen to him or were so inept at they're own scouting, our squad would still be the mess it is now, and theres nothing to say Keegan would've made results much better

(granted I think they would've been)

But it is asking the man to risk his reputation at the club he loves through no fault of his own etc

just say he had stayed on under those conditions and results had gone badly like they have... how many fans would have had second thoughts about the guy even with the backroom trouble, which we'd have seen/heard less about if he had stayed on.

 

I'm sure theres a fair few who would change opinions

 

thats exactly my take on it too.

[LeazesMag 0]

I dont get the bit about 'risking his reputation'. I also dont for one minute think we'd be having discussions about us going down if he was still here.

 

probably not Chez, but people had high expectations of Keegan, and Keegan himself always aims for the sky.

[Optimistic Nut 148]

people keep saying Keegan should have maybe stayed on and bide his time etc.

 

because they didn't listen to him or were so inept at they're own scouting, our squad would still be the mess it is now, and theres nothing to say Keegan would've made results much better

(granted I think they would've been)

But it is asking the man to risk his reputation at the club he loves through no fault of his own etc

just say he had stayed on under those conditions and results had gone badly like they have... how many fans would have had second thoughts about the guy even with the backroom trouble, which we'd have seen/heard less about if he had stayed on.

 

I'm sure theres a fair few who would change opinions

 

thats exactly my take on it too.

 

I'm not sure how it would have damaged his reputation mind, not that that should have been a factor anyway. Had he stayed and it did turn out he was working under unworkable conditions as everyone seems to be making out, he'd have been lauded by the fans for putting the club first and continuing through it.

[Optimistic Nut 148]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

[Monkeys Fist 42458]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

[peasepud 59]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

And when he walked changes were made by that structure to correct the reason(s) for him walking. Thats why he came back, the board then had good enough sense to see that he was more important to the club than them.

[TheMoog 0]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

[Asprilla 96]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

 

Because it was him who decided to walk rather than stay and find a way of working within the structure.

 

 

I don't understand how people are so in awe of Keegan that he can do no wrong. We ALL have b/s to deal with in life, but it seems to me that Keegan's first resort is to walk away rather than stay and compromise or work to find a solution.

 

 

Either way, we're fucked now and neither party has had the courtesy to talk to the fans who ultimately are the ones suffering.

 

Keegan will get a few million quid, the good players will move on to pastures new with a hefty signing on fee, Kinnear gets another shot at the big tim, Ashley still owns the club and we get to follow a team fighting a relegation battle. Yay.

[Optimistic Nut 148]

And you also forget that Keegan walked out last time because he didn't feel he could work under particular conditions...a setup which you hail and eventually got us back into the top-five and the Champions League.

 

And when he walked changes were made by that structure to correct the reason(s) for him walking. Thats why he came back, the board then had good enough sense to see that he was more important to the club than them.

 

I was talking about when we became a PLC in '97 and Dalglish came in.

[Guest alex]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

 

Because it was him who decided to walk rather than stay and find a way of working within the structure.

 

 

I don't understand how people are so in awe of Keegan that he can do no wrong. We ALL have b/s to deal with in life, but it seems to me that Keegan's first resort is to walk away rather than stay and compromise or work to find a solution.

 

 

Either way, we're fucked now and neither party has had the courtesy to talk to the fans who ultimately are the ones suffering.

 

Keegan will get a few million quid, the good players will move on to pastures new with a hefty signing on fee, Kinnear gets another shot at the big tim, Ashley still owns the club and we get to follow a team fighting a relegation battle. Yay.

Rather than saying KK can do no wrong I'm laying the vast majority of the blame at a regime which has continually lied, moved the goalposts and no manager worth his salt would work under (the support from Wenger and Ferguson suggests as much).

[Guest alex]

And hasn't Ashley now presided over the two shortest managerial tenures in the club's history (in terms of matches at least)? Back to back as well. Says a lot considering the club's (deserved) reputation for having a large turnover in that department.

[TheMoog 0]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

 

Because it was him who decided to walk rather than stay and find a way of working within the structure.

 

 

I don't understand how people are so in awe of Keegan that he can do no wrong. We ALL have b/s to deal with in life, but it seems to me that Keegan's first resort is to walk away rather than stay and compromise or work to find a solution.

 

 

Either way, we're fucked now and neither party has had the courtesy to talk to the fans who ultimately are the ones suffering.

 

Keegan will get a few million quid, the good players will move on to pastures new with a hefty signing on fee, Kinnear gets another shot at the big tim, Ashley still owns the club and we get to follow a team fighting a relegation battle. Yay.

 

Keegan walked the same as anyone with half a brain would, Ant put it in a very good way in his post. I'm not 'in awe' of Keegan, he has been great for us in the past and I think he would have been again, he was brought in to do a job, then had his hands tied - if he wasn't going to be able to do the job as effectively as we all know he could then what would be the point of him staying? If Ashley didn't intend on letting Keegan get on with the job he should never have signed him up, who's fault is that? Mike Ashley's.

[Asprilla 96]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[Asprilla 96]

And hasn't Ashley now presided over the two shortest managerial tenures in the club's history (in terms of matches at least)? Back to back as well. Says a lot considering the club's (deserved) reputation for having a large turnover in that department.

To be fair, Allardyce did a pretty good job of getting himself sacked (1 point from two games against Derby) and Keegan walked. I do take your point though.

[Asprilla 96]

Makes me feel ill thinking about it. He had the one man in situ who could galvanize pygmies at a basketball game .

Classic.Where did you pull that from?

 

 

Agree btw. Can't really blame Keegan for walking,or the current state of affairs.

 

I don't see how any blame can lay at Keegan's feet. Ashley was the man who brought him in, Ashley was the man who let him go. It was all in Ashley's power to make good but he didn't and now we're in the state we're in, as far as I'm concerned one man is to blame, Mike Ashley - he didn't need to keep Wise, he didn't need to keep Llambias, he chose to back them over the one man who would have united the fans and brought the feel-good factor back to the club. The thing that annoys me is even now he could correct it all but he chooses not to.

 

Because it was him who decided to walk rather than stay and find a way of working within the structure.

 

 

I don't understand how people are so in awe of Keegan that he can do no wrong. We ALL have b/s to deal with in life, but it seems to me that Keegan's first resort is to walk away rather than stay and compromise or work to find a solution.

 

 

Either way, we're fucked now and neither party has had the courtesy to talk to the fans who ultimately are the ones suffering.

 

Keegan will get a few million quid, the good players will move on to pastures new with a hefty signing on fee, Kinnear gets another shot at the big tim, Ashley still owns the club and we get to follow a team fighting a relegation battle. Yay.

Rather than saying KK can do no wrong I'm laying the vast majority of the blame at a regime which has continually lied, moved the goalposts and no manager worth his salt would work under (the support from Wenger and Ferguson suggests as much).

I agree that the goalposts were moved, my point is that there are better ways of dealing with things like this that would have had less of a negative impact on the club.

[Guest alex]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

[Asprilla 96]

Imagine taking any job

it being nothing like it was supposed to be, you might be held accountable for other peoples actions, you might ruin your own name and effect future prospects/earnings due to the failures of others and actions not being taken that were promised, and having to cover for these people in the meantime.

 

If that was you, would you stay in the Job Asprilla?

i fucking wouldn't

I understand your point but if someone walks out of a job and lets their family starve is he still in the right?

 

He may have had a valid grievance but he has a responsiblity to his wife and kids.

 

Keegan has/had "Messiah" status at this club and as such can't just shrug and say he didn't like it and expect people to still feel the same way about him.

[Guest alex]

It's a complete red herring comparing it to real life jobs btw imo.

[Asprilla 96]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

[Asprilla 96]

It's a complete red herring comparing it to real life jobs btw imo.

I agree.

[Guest alex]

The way I look at it is (and this is obviously with a degree of guesswork) KK didn't need to come back, but he came back because he was sold a vision, when that vision turned out to be a pack of lies with his role becoming increasingly undermined and more peripheral in terms of influence he walked. That has left the club in a state but it's a symptom rather than a root cause, if you like, of the real problem.

[Guest alex]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

I suppose in a way you're right mate and we're all in the same boat. One thing that does stand out though is that Ashley must be fucking clueless if he thought KK was just going to sit there like a lapdog and take Wise and Co running things. He's probably the one manager (particularly at NUFC) who would go along with it.

[Asprilla 96]

I'm not sure which filter you have in your browsers but I have said time and time again that Ashley is most at fault.

 

The difference is, I'm not defending Keegan for walking.

 

He isn't Wenger and he isn't Ferguson. They both have had disagreements with their respective employers but have found ways of overcoming them. Before we get the violins out for Keegan, let's not forget that the salary for a Premiership manager is more than any of us are likely to ever earn.

 

 

Ok, so it wasn't like the brochure stated, but Keegan's way of dealing with things is to walk. Was it not possible for Keegan to say to the press "I'm not having as much say over player recruitment as I was promised but I'm going to do my best for this football club until we can reach a compromise"? Up until a week or two before he walked he was making out that things were ok, then he flounces off. Is that how a grown man deals with things? How is that honest?

 

Mike Ashley is a cunt. Re-read that.

 

He is a barrow boy who specialises in turning good things into cheap things and making a proftit. Now the economic bubble has burst and it's hit him hard. He doesn't want to lose the only thing left that he has of value.

 

 

The bottom line is, we have Joe Kinnear for a manager, a world class centre forward who is likely on his way out and a very good chance of being relegated.

 

If you won't at least admit that Keegan has contributed to this then I guess we have to agree to disagree.

That's fair enough tbh. I don't agree with your assessment on how KK should have behaved though.

I'm talking as a fan though. I'm perfectly sure Keegan feels that he did the right thing. I'm not him though. I don't get a payout and I have a joker running the football club I support. As a fan I feel let down.

 

Of course Ashley has let us all down far more, but Keegan has too. In my opinion.

 

The stupid thing is that it was all so unnecessary.

I suppose in a way you're right mate and we're all in the same boat. One thing that does stand out though is that Ashley must be fucking clueless if he thought KK was just going to sit there like a lapdog and take Wise and Co running things. He's probably the one manager (particularly at NUFC) who would go along with it.

 

Well that bit is something we can definitely agree on. I am not prone to violence but that man needs a good Chinese burn. Are you allowed to say that these days btw?

 

The way I look at it is (and this is obviously with a degree of guesswork) KK didn't need to come back, but he came back because he was sold a vision, when that vision turned out to be a pack of lies with his role becoming increasingly undermined and more peripheral in terms of influence he walked. That has left the club in a state but it's a symptom rather than a root cause, if you like, of the real problem.

 

That is a good point in context. It wasn't like Keegan was a budding manager who needed the work. I imagine that he was sold the job in very rosey terms and his heart (Keegan's) carried him along when doubts first starting to show. It's easy to overlook things when you don't want to see them.

 

 

Ah, I just can't believe it all came crashing down again. I remember consciously savouring the fact that Keegan was our manager again and that we had a "proper" manager once more who understood the unique blend of hope, failure, romance, excitement and "fuck you all!" that NUFC is.