Police to be armed with stun guns

[Guest alex]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/advice/

[Park Life 71]

This has been done to death on here about 3 or 4 times now btw.

I tried to point that out, but apparently my taser-like subtlety was futile.

 

Resistance is futile.

[Fop 1]

Seriously guys I know Fob broached these things in a cack handed manner. But in this instance he is absolutely right. General distribution of the tazer is dangerous.

 

Don't worry if I said it was a good thing™, most of the usual suspects would be up in arms about it.

 

This has been done to death on here about 3 or 4 times now btw.

I tried to point that out, but apparently my taser-like subtlety was futile.

It hasn't though, they were never supposed to be a general issue weapon - even though I said they would be (and lots screamed they wouldn't ).

 

 

It's the same problem you'll get with anything concerning the police, i.e. if it is used incorrectly / at the wrong time etc. (and especially if it leads to death or serious injury) they'll tend to lie about it to cover their backs. I would have concerns about it being used 'willy nilly' by them as well. This has been done to death on here about 3 or 4 times now btw.

 

They will, the way the taser has already been used in the "trial" shows that, as does the way CS spray went from how it was supposed to be used to how it actually is used (that has been used to make passive protesters to let go - again torture).

[Fop 1]

Seriously guys I know Fob broached these things in a cack handed manner. But in this instance he is absolutely right. General distribution of the tazer is dangerous.

 

Are they going to hand them out to everyone? Sounds like a laugh.

 

Ironically the police would shoot you (not taser you) for carrying one yourself.

[Meenzer 15872]

None of your sourced-from-other-sites emoticons are working, by the way. *zap!*

[Park Life 71]

Fop, might they be expecting massive civil disobedience?

[Fop 1]

Fop, might they be expecting massive civil disobedience?

Withdrawing money from a bank they don't want you too is already a terrorist act™ so maybe.

[Renton 22507]

None of your sourced-from-other-sites emoticons are working, by the way. *zap!*

 

I thought he was making a Foptastic point.

[Park Life 71]

Fop, might they be expecting massive civil disobedience?

Withdrawing money from a bank they don't want you too is already a terrorist act™ so maybe.

 

You are truly ahead of the curve.

 

 

Gold or water?

[manc-mag 1]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

[Guest alex]

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

[Meenzer 15872]

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

Like the M25.

[Park Life 71]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

[Fop 1]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

 

It still doesn't stand up to scrutiny as anyone with a gun (imitation or otherwise), sword, axe (or taser) and genuinely dangerous with a knife is still likely to be shot anyway.

 

And in other situations CS spray will be more or less as effective as a weapon of last resort/self defence (although not as a weapon of threat/forced obedience/torture).

 

I think once these are rolled out genrally we'll see the quiet move toward arming all police with handguns - the biggest opponents to this presently are still the police themselves, but the tide is inexplicably moving that way.

[Park Life 71]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

 

It still doesn't stand up to scrutiny as anyone with a gun (imitation or otherwise), sword, axe (or taser) and genuinely dangerous with a knife is still likely to be shot anyway.

 

And in other situations CS spray will be more or less as effective as a weapon of last resort/self defence (although not as a weapon of threat/forced obedience/torture).

 

I think once these are rolled out genrally we'll see the quiet move toward arming all police with handguns - the biggest opponents to this presently are still the police themselves, but the tide is inexplicably moving that way.

 

 

The police are but pawns.

[manc-mag 1]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

 

I'd agree with that too. I think we're already seeing that in terms of Judges going towards the more severe end of current tariffs but whether that in itself will be adequate...? I don't know that we're seeing any greater deterrent effect coming through yet anyway.

 

I wouldnt be averse to going higher on sentencing on this either for the record.

[Park Life 71]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

 

I'd agree with that too. I think we're already seeing that in terms of Judges going towards the more severe end of current tariffs but whether that in itself will be adequate...? I don't know that we're seeing any greater deterrent effect coming through yet anyway.

 

I wouldnt be averse to going higher on sentencing on this either for the record.

 

Nor would I. Imo people carrying knives when they go out for a pint are animals and need to be treated as such.

[Guest alex]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

 

I'd agree with that too. I think we're already seeing that in terms of Judges going towards the more severe end of current tariffs but whether that in itself will be adequate...? I don't know that we're seeing any greater deterrent effect coming through yet anyway.

 

I wouldnt be averse to going higher on sentencing on this either for the record.

 

Nor would I. Imo people carrying knives when they go out for a pint are animals and need to be treated as such.

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

[Renton 22507]

Isn't there a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of a knife or did I make that up?

[manc-mag 1]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

 

It still doesn't stand up to scrutiny as anyone with a gun (imitation or otherwise), sword, axe (or taser) and genuinely dangerous with a knife is still likely to be shot anyway.

 

And in other situations CS spray will be more or less as effective as a weapon of last resort/self defence (although not as a weapon of threat/forced obedience/torture).

 

I think once these are rolled out genrally we'll see the quiet move toward arming all police with handguns - the biggest opponents to this presently are still the police themselves, but the tide is inexplicably moving that way.

 

I think at least on that point you're getting too black and white Fop. Clearly to some extent an enhanced and legitimate threat level is akin and analogous to self defence and in fact minimises the premises of last resort.

 

Clearly torture would not be permissible in any scenario as it is per se illegal. Forced obedience (I'm less sure what you mean by that as it doesnt have a strict legal meaning but of course I think by now I can guess at what you mean) is a greyer area.

[GeordieMessiah 2]

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

Like the M25.

 

Beautiful.

[Guest alex]

Isn't there a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of a knife or did I make that up?

Sounds way off tbh.

[Fop 1]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

Seems to be pretty commonplace and acceptable in some circles to carry a knife for example.

 

It still doesn't stand up to scrutiny as anyone with a gun (imitation or otherwise), sword, axe (or taser) and genuinely dangerous with a knife is still likely to be shot anyway.

 

And in other situations CS spray will be more or less as effective as a weapon of last resort/self defence (although not as a weapon of threat/forced obedience/torture).

 

I think once these are rolled out genrally we'll see the quiet move toward arming all police with handguns - the biggest opponents to this presently are still the police themselves, but the tide is inexplicably moving that way.

 

I think at least on that point you're getting too black and white Fop. Clearly to some extent an enhanced and legitimate threat level is akin and analogous to self defence and in fact minimises the premises of last resort.

 

Clearly torture would not be permissible in any scenario as it is per se illegal. Forced obedience (I'm less sure what you mean by that as it doesnt have a strict legal meaning but of course I think by now I can guess at what you mean) is a greyer area.

 

It's a very important point and line to cross (that has been crossed).

 

Tasers are deemed as an instrument of torture by the UN for very good reason (and there's several countries the UK can't deport to because of taser torture).

 

I have nothing at all against tasers being used by trainer officers as a much needed less lethal (but tasers are not non-lethal) weapon for situations where a gun/kill isn't necessary.

 

But general distribution changes that entire, again much like CS spray it moves them to a cattle-prod area in threat of use and in actual use - that is very wrong in a lot of situations.

 

 

 

Like I said it might be much easier for the police to taser or CS spray passive resistance protesters, but that in no way means they should (but they inevitably will be, and in the case of CS spray have been).

The line between need use and effective torture is a very thin one indeed.

[Fop 1]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

[Guest alex]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

"Agenda".