Identify your local neighbourhood facist

[Guest alex]

There are roughly 20 million American Muslims and 1.5 Million British Muslims.

 

Without spending a day looking up transcripts I'd venture if you put both countries convictions of Muslim nationals together it would come easily to less than 2/3 dozen.

 

We are talking about a tiny tiny minority of nutters and people ought not to use them to taint a whole section of the population. That is known commonly as RACISM.

Source?

 

Obama.

Really? When did he say that? Sounds a bit high tbh. Getting on for 7% of the population.

[Fop 1]

There are roughly 20 million American Muslims and 1.5 Million British Muslims.

 

Without spending a day looking up transcripts I'd venture if you put both countries convictions of Muslim nationals together it would come easily to less than 2/3 dozen.

 

We are talking about a tiny tiny minority of nutters and people ought not to use them to taint a whole section of the population. That is known commonly as RACISM.

Source?

 

[Fop 1]

There are roughly 20 million American Muslims and 1.5 Million British Muslims.

 

Without spending a day looking up transcripts I'd venture if you put both countries convictions of Muslim nationals together it would come easily to less than 2/3 dozen.

 

We are talking about a tiny tiny minority of nutters and people ought not to use them to taint a whole section of the population. That is known commonly as RACISM.

Source?

 

Obama.

Really? When did he say that? Sounds a bit high tbh. Getting on for 7% of the population.

Higher than I said too.

[Park Life 71]

There are roughly 20 million American Muslims and 1.5 Million British Muslims.

 

Without spending a day looking up transcripts I'd venture if you put both countries convictions of Muslim nationals together it would come easily to less than 2/3 dozen.

 

We are talking about a tiny tiny minority of nutters and people ought not to use them to taint a whole section of the population. That is known commonly as RACISM.

Source?

 

Obama.

Really? When did he say that? Sounds a bit high tbh. Getting on for 7% of the population.

 

Sorry it should read 2 million. Well spotted.

 

 

There are so many studies however and the range is between 1.8 million and 5 million. It's gone down as people have stopped responding in the states to the question of religion, especially the Muslim middle class since the Iraq war apparently.

[Guest alex]

Question?

 

How many Muslims live in the U.K.?

 

How many have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

 

 

How many Mulsims live in the U.S.?

 

How many Muslim Americans have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

260 million according to Fop.

I think you'd better go an check the figures.

 

 

Hence why I said it wasn't that much like it. You could have chosen virtually any political decision. I don't quite see the relevance of transport policy to this debate though. Anyway, it's another agree to disagree thing I think.

Because the integrated transport policy is something that's been around for years without anything really being done about it (there was even a yes minister episode about it ).

 

It's just a good example of something a politician might want to fix, but at best blows hot air out of their ass about it, so it hangs around like a bad fart instead for vast periods of time.

 

9/11 didn't change anything. THe illegal and lie peddling invasion of Iraq did. Especially as there was a case to have a look at Afghanistan and an even stronger case to look into the Afg/Pakistan border territories.

 

Domestically it did. Not only did it allow sweeping new powers, but it made politicians panic. A 7/7 attack pre-Iraq would have been much more devastating politically than what actually did occur (by the time it did occur, it was probably almost seen as a relief politically due to the quagmire they'd got themselves into).

That would make it make it different to this then, no? Given politicians kept quiet about it, according to you. Then only did something about after 9/11.

 

No, because without 9/11 it would have still been festering away, quietly ignored, now.

Hence the difference because although not a lot is done (arguably) about transport it's never been 'off the radar' in my lifetime. Politicians never stop talking about it and neither do the public.

It makes a few guest appearances every now and then, but no one seriously tries to do anything about ITP, unintegrated transport policy much more so, but then that's part of the point and issue.

 

But again islamofascist issues were never off the political and security radar (although they may have been underestimated), they were on the radar, but quietly ignored.

You've actually described the difference for me.

Transport is an issue that never goes away, even if it isn't at the forefront of the public interest.

The problem of 'Islamofascism' to borrow your term was never in the public eye really before 9/11. Then it came to the very forefront of public interest.

Which is where your rather strained analogy falls down.

Edited November 21, 2008 by alex

[Guest alex]

There are roughly 20 million American Muslims and 1.5 Million British Muslims.

 

Without spending a day looking up transcripts I'd venture if you put both countries convictions of Muslim nationals together it would come easily to less than 2/3 dozen.

 

We are talking about a tiny tiny minority of nutters and people ought not to use them to taint a whole section of the population. That is known commonly as RACISM.

Source?

 

Obama.

Really? When did he say that? Sounds a bit high tbh. Getting on for 7% of the population.

 

Sorry it should read 2 million. Well spotted.

 

 

There are so many studies however and the range is between 1.8 million and 5 million. It's gone down as people have stopped responding in the states to the question of religion, especially the Muslim middle class since the Iraq war apparently.

Those pesky decimal points

I agree with what you're saying though. Targetting the majority over the actions of a tiny minority is about as prejudiced as you can get. However it may be dressed up.

[Park Life 71]

Here it says 8 million!

 

 

http://www.allied-media.com/AM/default.htm

 

 

Disputed sensus...from wiki

 

 

The following are a few of these disputed estimates:

1.1 million (2001) City University of New York - American Religious Identification Survey [0.5% of national adult population][36]

1.6 million (2000) Glenmary Research Center [0.5% of national population][37]

1.8 million (2007) 0.6% of population (2007 est.) The World Factbook[38]

1.9 million (2001) American Jewish Committee [0.6% of national population][39]

2.0 million (2000) Hartford Institute for Religious Research [0.7% of national population][40]

2.4 million (2007) Pew Research Center[41][42]

4.7 million (2005) Encyclopædia Britannica Book of the Year [1.5% of national population][43]

6-7 million (2001) Council on American-Islamic Relations - The Mosque in America: A National Portrait[44]

6.7 million (1997) J. Ilyas Ba-Yunus [2.2% of national population][45]

7 to 8 million (2008) Newsweek[46]

 

 

 

 

Basically between 2-5 million would be my guess.

[Fop 1]

Question?

 

How many Muslims live in the U.K.?

 

How many have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

 

 

How many Mulsims live in the U.S.?

 

How many Muslim Americans have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

260 million according to Fop.

I think you'd better go an check the figures.

 

 

Hence why I said it wasn't that much like it. You could have chosen virtually any political decision. I don't quite see the relevance of transport policy to this debate though. Anyway, it's another agree to disagree thing I think.

Because the integrated transport policy is something that's been around for years without anything really being done about it (there was even a yes minister episode about it ).

 

It's just a good example of something a politician might want to fix, but at best blows hot air out of their ass about it, so it hangs around like a bad fart instead for vast periods of time.

 

9/11 didn't change anything. THe illegal and lie peddling invasion of Iraq did. Especially as there was a case to have a look at Afghanistan and an even stronger case to look into the Afg/Pakistan border territories.

 

Domestically it did. Not only did it allow sweeping new powers, but it made politicians panic. A 7/7 attack pre-Iraq would have been much more devastating politically than what actually did occur (by the time it did occur, it was probably almost seen as a relief politically due to the quagmire they'd got themselves into).

That would make it make it different to this then, no? Given politicians kept quiet about it, according to you. Then only did something about after 9/11.

 

No, because without 9/11 it would have still been festering away, quietly ignored, now.

Hence the difference because although not a lot is done (arguably) about transport it's never been 'off the radar' in my lifetime. Politicians never stop talking about it and neither do the public.

It makes a few guest appearances every now and then, but no one seriously tries to do anything about ITP, unintegrated transport policy much more so, but then that's part of the point and issue.

 

But again islamofascist issues were never off the political and security radar (although they may have been underestimated), they were on the radar, but quietly ignored.

You've actually described the difference for me.

Transport is an issue that never goes away, even if it isn't at the forefront of the public interest.

The problem of 'Islamofascism' to borrow your term was never in the public eye really before 9/11. Then it came to the very forefront of public interest.

Which is where your rather strained analogy falls down.

 

 

Ah.. I do love your bogside ambush attempts.

 

But you're still wrong.

 

I never said it was on the public's mind (I said the opposite), but then neither is ITP (stop someone and ask them on the street, no one will say "ooo... intergrated transport policy, when are they going to sort that out!!"). The problems with transport never go away (because no one will grasp the nettle that is ITP), but again that is exactly like festering Islamofascism pre-9/11 in the UK.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

This is officially the most boring thread on TT ....e...v....e.....r

[Guest alex]

I'll agree to disagree then Fop. Since you're just repeating yourself.

[Park Life 71]

Question?

 

How many Muslims live in the U.K.?

 

How many have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

 

 

How many Mulsims live in the U.S.?

 

How many Muslim Americans have been convicted of terrorism or insightment to violence?

260 million according to Fop.

I think you'd better go an check the figures.

 

 

Hence why I said it wasn't that much like it. You could have chosen virtually any political decision. I don't quite see the relevance of transport policy to this debate though. Anyway, it's another agree to disagree thing I think.

Because the integrated transport policy is something that's been around for years without anything really being done about it (there was even a yes minister episode about it ).

 

It's just a good example of something a politician might want to fix, but at best blows hot air out of their ass about it, so it hangs around like a bad fart instead for vast periods of time.

 

9/11 didn't change anything. THe illegal and lie peddling invasion of Iraq did. Especially as there was a case to have a look at Afghanistan and an even stronger case to look into the Afg/Pakistan border territories.

 

Domestically it did. Not only did it allow sweeping new powers, but it made politicians panic. A 7/7 attack pre-Iraq would have been much more devastating politically than what actually did occur (by the time it did occur, it was probably almost seen as a relief politically due to the quagmire they'd got themselves into).

That would make it make it different to this then, no? Given politicians kept quiet about it, according to you. Then only did something about after 9/11.

 

No, because without 9/11 it would have still been festering away, quietly ignored, now.

Hence the difference because although not a lot is done (arguably) about transport it's never been 'off the radar' in my lifetime. Politicians never stop talking about it and neither do the public.

It makes a few guest appearances every now and then, but no one seriously tries to do anything about ITP, unintegrated transport policy much more so, but then that's part of the point and issue.

 

But again islamofascist issues were never off the political and security radar (although they may have been underestimated), they were on the radar, but quietly ignored.

You've actually described the difference for me.

Transport is an issue that never goes away, even if it isn't at the forefront of the public interest.

The problem of 'Islamofascism' to borrow your term was never in the public eye really before 9/11. Then it came to the very forefront of public interest.

Which is where your rather strained analogy falls down.

 

 

Ah.. I do love your bogside ambush attempts.

 

But you're still wrong.

 

I never said it was on the public's mind (I said the opposite), but then neither is ITP (stop someone and ask them on the street, no one will say "ooo... intergrated transport policy, when are they going to sort that out!!"). The problems with transport never go away (because no one will grasp the nettle that is ITP), but again that is exactly like festering Islamofascism pre-9/11 in the UK.

 

 

Fop how is it an intelligent garcon like yerself can be led by the nose by the media?

[Fop 1]

Here it says 8 million!

 

 

http://www.allied-media.com/AM/default.htm

 

 

Disputed sensus...from wiki

 

 

The following are a few of these disputed estimates:

1.1 million (2001) City University of New York - American Religious Identification Survey [0.5% of national adult population][36]

1.6 million (2000) Glenmary Research Center [0.5% of national population][37]

1.8 million (2007) 0.6% of population (2007 est.) The World Factbook[38]

1.9 million (2001) American Jewish Committee [0.6% of national population][39]

2.0 million (2000) Hartford Institute for Religious Research [0.7% of national population][40]

2.4 million (2007) Pew Research Center[41][42]

4.7 million (2005) Encyclopædia Britannica Book of the Year [1.5% of national population][43]

6-7 million (2001) Council on American-Islamic Relations - The Mosque in America: A National Portrait[44]

6.7 million (1997) J. Ilyas Ba-Yunus [2.2% of national population][45]

7 to 8 million (2008) Newsweek[46]

 

 

 

 

Basically between 2-5 million would be my guess.

 

 

They basically have no idea, and it is illegal to officially try and find out. It's probably 7-15 million (not necessarily actively practising, but people who would describe themselves as such) - a lot of the lower estimated come from studies that only counted people that were pretty hardcore - how many "Christians" would there be in the UK if you only counted people that went to Church 4+ times a week?

[Fop 1]

I'll agree to disagree then Fop. Since you're just repeating yourself.

Bogside ambush successfully avoided.

[Fop 1]

Fop how is it an intelligent garcon like yerself can be led by the nose by the media?

ITP or them ignoring festering Islamofascism?

[Park Life 71]

Here it says 8 million!

 

 

http://www.allied-media.com/AM/default.htm

 

 

Disputed sensus...from wiki

 

 

The following are a few of these disputed estimates:

1.1 million (2001) City University of New York - American Religious Identification Survey [0.5% of national adult population][36]

1.6 million (2000) Glenmary Research Center [0.5% of national population][37]

1.8 million (2007) 0.6% of population (2007 est.) The World Factbook[38]

1.9 million (2001) American Jewish Committee [0.6% of national population][39]

2.0 million (2000) Hartford Institute for Religious Research [0.7% of national population][40]

2.4 million (2007) Pew Research Center[41][42]

4.7 million (2005) Encyclopædia Britannica Book of the Year [1.5% of national population][43]

6-7 million (2001) Council on American-Islamic Relations - The Mosque in America: A National Portrait[44]

6.7 million (1997) J. Ilyas Ba-Yunus [2.2% of national population][45]

7 to 8 million (2008) Newsweek[46]

 

 

 

 

Basically between 2-5 million would be my guess.

 

 

They basically have no idea, and it is illegal to officially try and find out. It's probably 7-15 million (not necessarily actively practising, but people who would describe themselves as such) - a lot of the lower estimated come from studies that only counted people that were pretty hardcore - how many "Christians" would there be in the UK if you only counted people that went to Church 4+ times a week?

 

 

Pretty much.

[Guest Stevie]

This is officially the most boring thread on TT ....e...v....e.....r

100% correct. Best post not written by me, Danny or Steve on this thread.

[NJS 4385]

how many "Christians" would there be in the UK if you only counted people that went to Church 4+ times a week?

 

Not 4 times but 5.9% of UK citizens attend some kind of religious service more than once a month according to the last census.

 

Do those "hardcore" believers have more say than they should for that percentage? - I think they do.

[Fop 1]

how many "Christians" would there be in the UK if you only counted people that went to Church 4+ times a week?

 

Not 4 times but 5.9% of UK citizens attend some kind of religious service more than once a month according to the last census.

 

Do those "hardcore" believers have more say than they should for that percentage? - I think they do.

 

But how many would describe themselves as Christian?

[Guest alex]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

[Fop 1]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

 

Same can be said about Zimbabwe (only in a different manner).

[Guest alex]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

 

Same can be said about Zimbabwe (only in a different manner).

Without defending Mugabe's regime, it's completely different as I see it.

[Fop 1]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

 

Same can be said about Zimbabwe (only in a different manner).

Without defending Mugabe's regime, it's completely different as I see it.

You were bound to (whether you do or don't).

[Guest alex]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

 

Same can be said about Zimbabwe (only in a different manner).

Without defending Mugabe's regime, it's completely different as I see it.

You were bound to (whether you do or don't).

I didn't really get what you were getting at but I couldn't see the similarity. What did you mean exactly?

[Fop 1]

Police probe BNP link to car fire

Police cordoned off Eighth Avenue as they investigated the car fire

 

Police are investigating a car fire near a house in West Yorkshire which was included in a leaked list of British National Party (BNP) members.

 

The parked car exploded after being set alight late on Thursday night on Eighth Avenue in Windy Bank, Liversedge.

 

The BNP said none of its members lived in Eighth Avenue, although one of the houses in the road was on the leaked membership list published this week.

 

The car belonged to a neighbour of the person whose house was on the list.

 

Police investigating the car fire, in which nobody was hurt, said a possible link to the BNP list was just one line of inquiry.

 

A force spokesman said: "The cause of the damage and any potential motive all form part of the current investigation."

 

If this person has been targeted because his name has been on that list... it is a disgrace

David Exley, BNP's Kirklees organiser

 

The BNP's local organiser David Exley said none of the party's members lived in Eighth Avenue.

 

"I spoke to the police this morning and they confirmed that a car has been firebombed last night and one of the lines of inquiry is the person who lives next door to whose car it was is on the list on the internet.

 

"I can confirm that the gentleman, whose house the car was outside, is not a member of the BNP and is not a current supporter of the BNP.

 

"If this person has been targeted because his name has been on that list I feel it is very very sad, it is a disgrace."

 

Mr Exley said the list covered everybody who had ever contacted the BNP head office.

 

"It could be this man got an information pack, looked at it, decided it's not for him and thrown it away.

 

"But unfortunately somebody has irresponsibly put this list on the internet."

 

Charred debris

 

Eight houses in the road remained cordoned off by police on Friday.

 

A charred patch of debris was visible on the road and path outside one of the red brick semi-detached houses.

 

Eight people with Liversedge addresses are named on the BNP membership list which was leaked on the internet on Tuesday.

 

The BNP said the list of 12,000 activists, which included names, addresses, home telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, dated from 2007.

 

Party leader Nick Griffin has pledged to take court action against those behind the leak.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7741270.stm

 

 

Looks like people (or their property at least) are getting wrongly attacked already.

[Fop 1]

Just a thought but the BNP never seemed to care when black people, amongst others, really were 'second class citizens' in this country. But now they think the whites are they do. If that's not racist...

 

Same can be said about Zimbabwe (only in a different manner).

Without defending Mugabe's regime, it's completely different as I see it.

You were bound to (whether you do or don't).

I didn't really get what you were getting at but I couldn't see the similarity. What did you mean exactly?

You'll never know.