Back Four...

[Deano 0]

The back four in any team is the foundations to build a quality side upon.

 

I hold my breath when i say this but i honestly think potentially we have a good back four although we do lack depth.

 

Currently it isnt all that, and i say this because we havnt been able to keep the same back four consistently for 10-15 games or so, this amount imo being the minimum it takes for to build a solid understanding positionally and mentaly.

 

In a top side, or a side with no "behind the scenes" problems, a side who only needs to worry about the football you may see a back four gel quicker and easier, but in our side which is submerged in uncertainty beyond the hallowed turf, is it not understandable that mistakes are going to be made and it will take longer to get the understanding and consistency needed. I think so.

 

Ideally we would have a back four full of fully developed, iron nerved individuals, but as it stands we have maybe two fully developed individuals, one of which is still adapting to life in england and english football. The other being our best defender we've seen in a black and white shirt in recent times.

Then we have three potentially quality defenders to join the two already developed and experienced lads.

Taylor, Bassong, Enrique.

 

Taylor gets alot of stick, far too much imo but its only my opinion. Some of the stick is justified, the rest is magnified. He has the ability to be our JT our no nonsence "hav it" centre half. He has shown these qualities for years, but these are sometimes overlooked by his lapses in concentration and sometimes his tendancy to do something stupid. What we have got to remember is, this is a young lad who hasnt had a real mentor or a consistant partner at the back until coloccini this season. I personally feel that he is starting to develope a good understand with colo and in time he will hone his ability and rub out the tendancy to leave a leg dangling or sticking an arm out. He certainly is not as bad as some make out

 

Bassong has looked very impressive this season, and lookes to be a bargain at what we paid for him. Solid in a tackle, comanding in the air, composed and reads the game well not to mention his distribution has looked pretty decent too, my only fault with his game atm is that he does not get forward enough and support the guy infront of him. Some say he is a CB, maybe, but i think he could develope into a quality LB should he learn to get forward more. Everyone knows a good LB is one who can bomb forward and defend in tandom.

 

Enrique again is not as bad as some make out and agree in the sense that he has unfairly been the scapegoat at times. Not to say i dont in part agree with the criticism. He is at times shite on the ball, he does at times looked panicked and flustered and he is sometimes prone to getting caught ball watching. But in his defence, again he is young, he is learning and he is still adapting to the premiership. Iv no doubt he could be a good LB in the futur, but if we are looking for a natural defender id be more confident in going with bassong at LB.

 

I add to this that i think cacapa is shite, should be released in january, but only, and i reiterateONLY if we can get one or two experienced CB's in.

 

Another plus is we have the likes of the young tozer and kadar not to forget edgar who can make the step up into the side, but only when the ship is water tight and sailing.

 

As it stands id stick with

 

Beye Coloccini Taylor Bassong

 

Id use geremi as back up for Beye until end of season when he'd be replaced, Edgar and Cacapa as back up to Tayls and Colo until January, and use enrique sparingly with bassong.

 

The back four above may not be established YET but i honestly think that if we can pull ourselves out of the shit, we might just see this back four develope into a solid foundation for us to build upon.

 

[Jimbo 175]

I'd like to see Bassong given a chance in place of Taylor, Taylor is very, very ordinary in my opinion.

[OTF 7297]

Enrique cops an unfair amount of criticism IMO. You can only pass it to team mates if they give you the option and make them selves available. If they don't then as a defender you have to basically send a long ball down field (if you try to force a pass out, you'll often turn it over and set the opposiing team up with a scoring change - as we have seen with N'Zogbia playing there). Enrique can send a long ball with his left foot with good accuracy.

 

Bassong on the other hand is a more physical player (Enrique lost weight over the off-season - I didn't think that he needed to), but is far less refined. If you think Enrique looks panicked and flustered on the ball, then with bassong you'd have to say he looks hopeless with the ball.

 

IMO I'd stick with Enrique over Bassong on the left as Enrique gives you more of an option going forward. We don't get much attack out of our centre mids, so additional attacking options down the wing are necessities.

 

Coloccini looks like being our best signing of recent times. He could have done better with the penalty he gave away, but he's a consistent player who doesn't often get beaten by an opposing player (always seesm to manage to get a touch on the ball at the least). Importantly he's not at all injury prone (touch wood) having played the entire season for Depor last season, and thus far every minute for us.

 

Beye hasn't been up to his standard set last year, but is imporving with each game, and is positionally very good. Unfortunately at his age he's not going to last forever so we have to start blooding a younger fullback to succeed him in a few years time.

[TheInspiration 1]

Coloccini is a bit odd - for a defender who is brilliant the majority of the time, he does seem to find too many schoolboy errors that lead to goals. He needs to cut these out - they were exactly what let big Titus Malachi Bramble down.

[I R Toon Fan 0]

Why you so worried about getting shot down. I talk shit you talk shit we all talk shit... Except Tom...

[LeazesMag 0]

You are right in what you say, but the higher you go , the more important ball retention and dictating the pace of a game becomes, which in itself is a big factor in the defensive aspect of the game.

[OTF 7297]

You are right in what you say, but the higher you go , the more important ball retention and dictating the pace of a game becomes, which in itself is a big factor in the defensive aspect of the game.

 

If you get to the point where your reputation precedes you, your defenders will usually get more time on the ball, and are likely to really only have to defend on the counter attack and against set pieces. You see this with teams like Manchester United, Liverpool and Chelsea where oppossing teams so often sit back trying to weather the storm and consequently the Manchester United (etc) defenders are given acres of space (and consequently time). This in turn gives them confidence and makes them look better than they possibly are. Take Ferdinand out of Manchester United and he'll still be a very good defender, but he'll inevitably make mistakes if he is put under the same amount and volume of attacks that the likes of Coloccini are.

 

That said, it is important to have a defender who you can knock the ball back to and be confident that he'll be able to keep possession by passing the ball around. The onus though doesn't lie entirely with that defender as you need the rest of your team to move around to give him options. I think that Shay Given should also be looking to send more short balls through to our defenders. It's too often in my opinion that he hoofs the ball upfield even when there is no opposing player putting pressure on him.

[Rob W 0]

our BIGGEST problem on the pitch is that we haven't had a back FOUR for years

 

Its been 2 and 2 hangers on most of the time

[Tooj 17]

Bassong deserves a chance in the middle ahead of Whiteus Bramble iyam.

[Craig 6682]

I'd like to see Bassong given a chance in place of Taylor, Taylor is very, very over-rated in my opinion.

 

FYP

[Geordie Boyo 24]

I'd like to see Bassong given a chance in place of Taylor, Taylor is very, very ordinary in my opinion.

 

 

Here, here

 

 

Enrique has delivered some great passing up to the front two in the past, but overall his defending, passing and marking of late has been terrible.

 

 

I don't like seeing Zog at left-back, but he'd be my first choice at the moment. With Bassong playing next to him they can team up on the defence and having Bassong there might let Zog do what he does best and go on the counter attack.

 

 

For me, until we get a really decent left-back it's N'Zogbia Bassong Coloccini Beye, with Taylor on the bench.

[2bias 3]

i like bassong myself i think he should get a run

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

We had this 2 years ago with people saying Faye was the next Bobby Moore. He wasnt! People who think Bassong should be starting ahead of Taylor obviously werent at the derby where he was probably th eworst player on the field. Even JFK rates Cacapa above him

[Tooj 17]

We had this 2 years ago with people saying Faye was the next Bobby Moore. He wasnt! People who think Bassong should be starting ahead of Taylor obviously werent at the derby where he was probably th eworst player on the field. Even JFK rates Cacapa above him

Even though he had a knock? And I don't remember Bassong costing us a goal in the derby match.

 

And two years ago with Faye being the next Bobby Moore? What are you on about?

 

You're also talking about one match with regards to Bassong when otherwise he's looked pretty decent, whereas Taylor has already proven that he's not good enough.

[Guest alex]

We had this 2 years ago with people saying Faye was the next Bobby Moore. He wasnt! People who think Bassong should be starting ahead of Taylor obviously werent at the derby where he was probably th eworst player on the field. Even JFK rates Cacapa above him

I don't think anyone has ever said what you claim about Faye but you always build straw men. Also Kinnear said Bassong wasn't 100% for Fulham away.

[Dr Gloom 21963]

i still think we're short of a top class left back and i'm happy with beye and collocini. basong looks decent and probably deserves a chance ahead of taylor.

 

taylor's a funny one, on his day looks top class but a little too eratic for me.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

From Nufc.com

 

“I wanted Taylor to play theres no doubt about that. We left it until as late as possible to put him in the side, but he pulled out.

 

“He was still feeling his groin, and we had to make a decision.

 

“I know theres Bassong, but it’s easy to say that after the event.

“We feel amongst ourselves that Cacapa is the better player of the two, but he didnt have an exceptionally good game, and the first goal was an error on his part.”

 

Oh and about Faye Alex, short memory

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=438899

Edited November 12, 2008 by Kid Dynamite

[Tooj 17]

From Nufc.com

 

“I wanted Taylor to play theres no doubt about that. We left it until as late as possible to put him in the side, but he pulled out.

 

“He was still feeling his groin, and we had to make a decision.

 

“I know theres Bassong, but it’s easy to say that after the event.

“We feel amongst ourselves that Cacapa is the better player of the two, but he didnt have an exceptionally good game, and the first goal was an error on his part.”

 

Oh and about Faye Alex, short memory

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=438899

Not a mention of Bobby Moore like, and the date certainly wasn't two years ago. Surprisingly.

[Guest alex]

From Nufc.com

 

“I wanted Taylor to play theres no doubt about that. We left it until as late as possible to put him in the side, but he pulled out.

 

“He was still feeling his groin, and we had to make a decision.

 

“I know theres Bassong, but it’s easy to say that after the event.

“We feel amongst ourselves that Cacapa is the better player of the two, but he didnt have an exceptionally good game, and the first goal was an error on his part.”

 

Oh and about Faye Alex, short memory

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=438899

Was that meant to prove my point btw?

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

I dont think anyone actually thought he had been compared to Bobby Moore (apart from maybe you). My point was that people were bigging him up saying he was easiy the best CB at the club when the truth is he wasnt even the best CB on the bench! Same applies to Bassong, and il be happy to gloat when he gets a game at CB and proves it. He like Bambi on ice man

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

From Nufc.com

 

“I wanted Taylor to play theres no doubt about that. We left it until as late as possible to put him in the side, but he pulled out.

 

“He was still feeling his groin, and we had to make a decision.

 

“I know theres Bassong, but it’s easy to say that after the event.

“We feel amongst ourselves that Cacapa is the better player of the two, but he didnt have an exceptionally good game, and the first goal was an error on his part.”

 

Oh and about Faye Alex, short memory

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=438899

Was that meant to prove my point btw?

 

If your point was that Kinnear HAD said he rates Cacapa over Bassong and that you DID think Faye was our best CB when he was here then yes, yes it does prove it.

 

Although i thought it was me who said that and people had called me on it???

[Tooj 17]

I dont think anyone actually thought he had been compared to Bobby Moore (apart from maybe you). My point was that people were bigging him up saying he was easiy the best CB at the club when the truth is he wasnt even the best CB on the bench! Same applies to Bassong, and il be happy to gloat when he gets a game at CB and proves it. He like Bambi on ice man

So why say it then if nobody had actually said it?

 

He was the best CB at the club last season. It wasn't hard like. You'll happily see one of our players fail so you can get bragging rights on the internet. Some fan you are.

[Guest alex]

I dont think anyone actually thought he had been compared to Bobby Moore (apart from maybe you). My point was that people were bigging him up saying he was easiy the best CB at the club when the truth is he wasnt even the best CB on the bench! Same applies to Bassong, and il be happy to gloat when he gets a game at CB and proves it. He like Bambi on ice man

Exactly my point. You were building a straw man argument. Don't know how more clearly I can explain it tbh.

As for my view on Faye, if he was still here I'd be playing him alongside Colo.

As for Bassong, it's my view he's a better CB than Cacapa. Especially alongside Colo. That's hardly massively bigging him up either.

[Guest alex]

From Nufc.com

 

“I wanted Taylor to play theres no doubt about that. We left it until as late as possible to put him in the side, but he pulled out.

 

“He was still feeling his groin, and we had to make a decision.

 

“I know theres Bassong, but it’s easy to say that after the event.

“We feel amongst ourselves that Cacapa is the better player of the two, but he didnt have an exceptionally good game, and the first goal was an error on his part.”

 

Oh and about Faye Alex, short memory

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=438899

Was that meant to prove my point btw?

 

If your point was that Kinnear HAD said he rates Cacapa over Bassong and that you DID think Faye was our best CB when he was here then yes, yes it does prove it.

 

Although i thought it was me who said that and people had called me on it???

See above. And try not to flounce off this time.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

I dont think anyone actually thought he had been compared to Bobby Moore (apart from maybe you). My point was that people were bigging him up saying he was easiy the best CB at the club when the truth is he wasnt even the best CB on the bench! Same applies to Bassong, and il be happy to gloat when he gets a game at CB and proves it. He like Bambi on ice man

So why say it then if nobody had actually said it?

 

He was the best CB at the club last season. It wasn't hard like. You'll happily see one of our players fail so you can get bragging rights on the internet. Some fan you are.

 

no he wasnt. Are you missing my point here? People were saying last season he was the best CB at the club when he wasnt even 3rd best, as was proved when he was sold to the mighty stoke. People are now saying Bassong is the best CB we have (Colo aside) and once again he isnt. JFK obviously rates him as 4th best.

 

one or two people denied either were ever said so I provided you with Alex's quote to prove my first point and a JFK quote to prove my second.

 

Now Alex is getting ratty