US Election 2008

[Tom 14021]

Night

 

I have been watching BBC news for 7 hours

[acrossthepond 878]

Yup John McCain is a class act. He is a decent human being overall. He ran a fair campaign and there was very little mud slinging from him. Unfortunately though, he is a Republican and that party is as dirty as they come at this time.

 

Filthy campaign tbh, it's no surprise that his supporters were booing Obama's name. He himself is still class, but he had unscrupulous people advising him and running his campaign.

 

You guys need to go to bed, by the way

 

Those people with the "wall" are scary like.

[wykikitoon 20929]

Ive just listened to Obamahs speech, man it sent goosebumps through me!

[Guest Stevie]

Fuck them, they call football "soccer".

[wykikitoon 20929]

Fuck them, they call football "soccer".

 

[Meenzer 15745]

Fuck them, they call football "soccer".

Even you'd be called a "liberal" over there Stevie. Now that's scary.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

As much as I cringe when I see the drama a lot of Americans make out of things, I think making a big deal out of this is fair enough. Whether you love/hate Obama,, they voted in an African-American president. Jesse Jackson was balling his eyes out, and whether you like him or not, this day must be one he probably thought he'd never see.

[Guest alex]

I got up through the night and turned on the radio and caught McCain's speech live. Very humble I thought and he came across well. I couldn't help thinking his run for office was at least a decade too late though. Pleased Obama won it, as are most people I think. As much as anything because it will piss off all the racists and the nutters from the religious right. Even more pleased the whole thing's over though to be honest.

[NJS 4418]

I hadn't realised previously that Bush beat McCain in 2000 in the primary - I read this week that a key strategy which tipped the balance was revealing McCain had adopted a kid by woman (A Vietnamese one I think) he'd had an affair with. Typical Republicans and I'd guess why he was uneasy with Palin's attacks on Obama.

[Douggy B 0]

Well done America, they obviously have more about them than I credited them for.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Danny B

[Park Life 71]

Peace the unidiscovered country.

 

Well done Americans for making the right choice.

[Fop 1]

Yup John McCain is a class act. He is a decent human being overall. He ran a fair campaign and there was very little mud slinging from him. Unfortunately though, he is a Republican and that party is as dirty as they come at this time.

 

This is another amusing assumption about the parties in the USA.

 

The difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is about as much as between Thatcher and Tebbit (or at best Portillo).

 

Although admittedly Democratic Presidents seem to have a slightly higher instance of playing away and are slightly better at hiding or deflecting interest away from their commercial interests.

 

 

 

 

Why does Obama want to be President? Same reason as Bush (Jr and Sr), Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy, Carter, Clinton and any other; power.

 

That inherently flaws them as people that should be leading anyone, never mind what public persona they project.

 

 

 

 

So the world won't change, but the spin might be a little better.

[tinofbeans 91]

great news, and i have to admit, the republican party are really sore losers. Mccain comes across as a very decent man.

[Fop 1]

He's not Muslim at all. But a significant proportion of americans thought he was well into the run-up.

 

It's funny he's played an interesting game with that. He's denied it enough to wash with the mainstream vote (he isn't, although he has family members that are), but not enough so that the majority of American muslims don't still think he is a muslim too.

 

Well played by him on that one.

[Guest alex]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

[Fop 1]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

 

It's not that insignificant and ironically many vote republican traditionally. He knew what he was doing and played it very well (sorry to shatter his White er.. Black er... Inclusive Knight persona ).

Edited November 5, 2008 by Fop

[spongebob toonpants 4166]

He's not Muslim at all. But a significant proportion of americans thought he was well into the run-up.

 

It's funny he's played an interesting game with that. He's denied it enough to wash with the mainstream vote (he isn't, although he has family members that are), but not enough so that the majority of American muslims don't still think he is a muslim too.

 

Well played by him on that one.

 

Thats bollocks obviously, amusing bollocks but bollocks none the less.

 

Nice tactic of saying it often enough to gain currency

[NJS 4418]

He's not Muslim at all. But a significant proportion of americans thought he was well into the run-up.

 

It's funny he's played an interesting game with that. He's denied it enough to wash with the mainstream vote (he isn't, although he has family members that are), but not enough so that the majority of American muslims don't still think he is a muslim too.

 

Well played by him on that one.

 

As I understand it his Dad obviously came from a Muslim background but was an Atheist as an adult as was his Mother. That has given me hope that his christianity is "convenient" or at least moderate (as is McCain's).

 

Despite all the understandable rhetoric about this being a victory against the last bastion of prjudice it isn't - he would have failed miserably if he'd been an Atheist.

[Guest alex]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

 

It's not that insignificant and ironically many vote republican traditionally. He knew what he as doing and played it very well (sorry to shatter his White er.. Black er... Inclusive Knight persona ).

Fair enough, remove the 'totally' bit from what I said and replace it with largely and I stand by what I said. Regarding the bit in bold, I didn't buy into that anyway or a lot of his other rhetoric. But it doesn't really have much to do with my point anyway. I agree mostly with what you say about him. I think he'll end up just like everybody else once they get in, hence my previous 'Tommy Carcetti' quip.

I just think, in terms of votes, he would have had much more to gain by making it far clearer he wasn't a Muslim (perhaps I'm doing the US a disservice there though, I'm just guessing) than the ambiguity/clever manipulation I think you're accusing him of. There aren't that many Muslims in the US. They aren't concentrated in terms of population like the Jewish population in New York which waters down their influence even more. Many US muslims are African-American converts who would have voted for him anyway. The remaining Muslims would surely have tended to favour a Democrat given the last 8 years under Bush and so on.

[Fop 1]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

 

It's not that insignificant and ironically many vote republican traditionally. He knew what he as doing and played it very well (sorry to shatter his White er.. Black er... Inclusive Knight persona ).

Fair enough, remove the 'totally' bit from what I said and replace it with largely and I stand by what I said. Regarding the bit in bold, I didn't buy into that anyway or a lot of his other rhetoric. But it doesn't really have much to do with my point anyway. I agree mostly with what you say about him. I think he'll end up just like everybody else once they get in, hence my previous 'Tommy Carcetti' quip.

I just think, in terms of votes, he would have had much more to gain by making it far clearer he wasn't a Muslim (perhaps I'm doing the US a disservice there though, I'm just guessing) than the ambiguity/clever manipulation I think you're accusing him of. There aren't that many Muslims in the US. They aren't concentrated in terms of population like the Jewish population in New York which waters down their influence even more. Many US muslims are African-American converts who would have voted for him anyway. The remaining Muslims would surely have tended to favour a Democrat given the last 8 years under Bush and so on.

Well 8-15 million isn't going to win it (even with a very high turn out), but any sensible politician knows that all votes count in one way or another.

But I do think he was clever with it, he did deny it enough to for it to not be an issue with the main vote, but left enough to allow the muslim population to believe what they wanted to believe.

 

He did the same with his "race" (he's "Black" when he needs to be and "White" when he needs to be - when in fact he's Blite or Whack ) to be honest, and his policies.

 

Which does make what he will do quite interesting in a way.

[spongebob toonpants 4166]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

 

It's not that insignificant and ironically many vote republican traditionally. He knew what he as doing and played it very well (sorry to shatter his White er.. Black er... Inclusive Knight persona ).

Fair enough, remove the 'totally' bit from what I said and replace it with largely and I stand by what I said. Regarding the bit in bold, I didn't buy into that anyway or a lot of his other rhetoric. But it doesn't really have much to do with my point anyway. I agree mostly with what you say about him. I think he'll end up just like everybody else once they get in, hence my previous 'Tommy Carcetti' quip.

I just think, in terms of votes, he would have had much more to gain by making it far clearer he wasn't a Muslim (perhaps I'm doing the US a disservice there though, I'm just guessing) than the ambiguity/clever manipulation I think you're accusing him of. There aren't that many Muslims in the US. They aren't concentrated in terms of population like the Jewish population in New York which waters down their influence even more. Many US muslims are African-American converts who would have voted for him anyway. The remaining Muslims would surely have tended to favour a Democrat given the last 8 years under Bush and so on.

 

 

In a way the horrible position he is taking over with the economy in ruins and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq might actually liberate him from some extent from the fate of Carcetti. Blair squandered a lot of his honeymoon period by being cautious - Obama has the chance to avoid this as he taking over in such turmoil

 

I know I'm a idealist old lefty romantic, but I watched his acceptance speech live this morning, and found it moving and inspiring. I actually think it is a great day for America. I hate evangelical born again right wing hate America, but I do think America can be a fantastic inspiring place.

[manc-mag 1]

The Muslim vote is totally insignificant in the US and (at a guess) most would have voted for Obama anyway. I'd have thought that he had far more to lose by ambiguity over his religion than he had to gain.

 

It's not that insignificant and ironically many vote republican traditionally. He knew what he as doing and played it very well (sorry to shatter his White er.. Black er... Inclusive Knight persona ).

Fair enough, remove the 'totally' bit from what I said and replace it with largely and I stand by what I said. Regarding the bit in bold, I didn't buy into that anyway or a lot of his other rhetoric. But it doesn't really have much to do with my point anyway. I agree mostly with what you say about him. I think he'll end up just like everybody else once they get in, hence my previous 'Tommy Carcetti' quip.

I just think, in terms of votes, he would have had much more to gain by making it far clearer he wasn't a Muslim (perhaps I'm doing the US a disservice there though, I'm just guessing) than the ambiguity/clever manipulation I think you're accusing him of. There aren't that many Muslims in the US. They aren't concentrated in terms of population like the Jewish population in New York which waters down their influence even more. Many US muslims are African-American converts who would have voted for him anyway. The remaining Muslims would surely have tended to favour a Democrat given the last 8 years under Bush and so on.

Well 8-15 million isn't going to win it (even with a very high turn out), but any sensible politician knows that all votes count in one way or another.

But I do think he was clever with it, he did deny it enough to for it to not be an issue with the main vote, but left enough to allow the muslim population to believe what they wanted to believe.

 

He did the same with his "race" (he's "Black" when he needs to be and "White" when he needs to be - when in fact he's Blite or Whack ) to be honest, and his policies.

 

Which does make what he will do quite interesting in a way.

 

Politician in 'being a politician' shocker. Stop the presses.

 

He's the first black president in history. The rest is just details tbh.

[ChezGiven 0]

The US is a bit of a poisoned chalice at the moment.

[Happy Face 29]

I watched his acceptance speech live this morning, and found it moving and inspiring.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2008 by Happy Face

[Guest alex]

I thought those figures were high Fop, so I checked.

From wikipedia:

"The highest, generally-accepted estimate of Muslims (including children) in the United States is 2.35 million (0.6% of the total population). Some sources mention estimates as high as 6-7 million. Such estimates were accepted by media for some time, but any empirical basis for these higher numbers is not documented."

Hardly the 8-15 million voters you're on about, is it?

Anyway we obviously aren't going to agree but I wasn't just being pernickety. I think you are being unduly harsh on him over this particular matter. It was the Republicans who implied he was a Muslim. He set the record straight but he was hardly then obliged to keep going on about an issue which his opponents wanted to use as a devisive tool.