US Election 2008

[Fop 1]

The ethnicity of Obama is significant because of the recent history of the country he is now president-elect of, don't you think?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

Could you actually put that into plain English please?

That would be racist.

 

Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either.

 

The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials.

 

 

See my sig.

 

I agree though with the first bit though, the second bit I'd goes along with what I've said which suggests "race" is just as much an issue as it ever was, only in a different manner.

[manc-mag 1]

Would love to see Fop try and get away with putting the question to Obama on Newsnight:

 

"How black are you?"

 

"So can you give a percentage?"

 

"Thought not!"

 

*Turns to camera wearing smug grin. Cut to producer, mortified*

 

I'd never ask him that question. In fact I don't even think there should be a question.

 

 

But yet again you make my point for me.

 

 

Woo-hoo! Cake-and-eat-it time already.

 

Full house!

[Fop 1]

Yes, I mean the Muslim populations. Where are you quoting those figures from? I'm not arguing it is difficult to estimate. I'm merely asking where you are quoting those figures from as I suspect you made them up. Wikipedia would tend to back that up. It may not be the most definitive of sites on this matter but at least the figures they give are referenced, unlike yours. You made a big deal out of the numbers btw. I'm only asking where they came from. You still haven't answered.

 

There's a load of estimates, ranging from that to much, much higher (the wiki one seems to be a very specific one based on pretty hardcore practising muslims - which clearly is about as representative as the non-alcohol drinkers don't live as long statistical analysis).

 

Yes there are vague and at times contradictory, but the weight of evidence (as well as just basic immigration maths) comes down on at least 8m and possibly up to double that.

 

 

Don't you think most 'African-Americans' are of mixed race anyway? It hardly means they don't share common experiences does it? It doesn't mean they are less likely to experience racism if they have one white grandparent etc. On top of which you haven't demonstrated how Obama has manipulated how he is perceived. You've just kept repeating the notion he has.

 

Out of interest (and don't look it up) just how "white" or "black" do you think he is?

I know he is of mixed race because his Dad was from Africa and his Grandmother (who just died) was white. I thought it was obvious he was of mixed race.

I note you still avoided supplying a source for your figures which only reinforces my view you made them up.

Like I said "how much"?

I'd assumed half and half (-ish). Not sure in all honesty. Your point? (Being hopeful, obviously given you couldn't supply the source for your made-up stats).

 

Like I said what I stated is quite within the weight of evidence, but you're right I've not personally checked how many muslims currently live in the USA.

 

However plenty of others have.

 

The ethnicity of Obama is significant because of the recent history of the country he is now president-elect of, don't you think?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

Could you actually put that into plain English please?

That would be racist.

Thought not.

I can't put it any plainer than that, it's not my fault if you no comprende, you should have done an English degree or something.

Still no source for those figures then? Thought not.

I ask you to provide an explanation for the other bit in plain English because I genuinely don't know what you meant by it. It's pretty easy and lazy to just say I'm stupid in response to that but it doesn't answer the question or fool anyone into thinking you know what you're on about.

I've explained it, I don't know what you want or think you want.

 

I'm not getting dragged into your usual language semantics no matter how hard you try , you either understand it or you don't, it's your problem not mine.

[Happy Face 29]

The ethnicity of Obama is significant because of the recent history of the country he is now president-elect of, don't you think?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

Could you actually put that into plain English please?

That would be racist.

 

Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either.

 

The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials.

 

 

See my sig.

 

 

 

Wahey.

 

Another WU bites the dust.

[Park Life 71]

My personal highlights from the speech.

 

It's the answer that led those who have been told for so long by so many to be cynical, and fearful, and doubtful of what we can achieve to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day.

 

It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory.

 

He nailed it.

 

 

The first quote is massive, when I heard it I had to really fight back a little man cry.

[Guest alex]

Fop, don't pull that semantics bullshit. I didn't and still don't know what you meant. Several others appear to be in the same boat. And how have you explained it exactly? I asked you what

"he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it."

meant and you implied I was stupid for not understanding it. How is that an explanation?

So, what do you mean by the bit I quoted?

Edited November 5, 2008 by alex

[manc-mag 1]

I've explained it, I don't know what you want or think you want.

 

I'm not getting dragged into your usual language semantics no matter how hard you try , you either understand it or you don't, it's your problem not mine.

 

 

Like shite you have!

[Park Life 71]

I reckon he's just so moved by the result he is rambling.

[Guest alex]

You have to laugh at someone having a pop at politicians for the way they behave then flatly refusing to answer a straight question. What an italicised, bolded hypocrite.

[manc-mag 1]

You have to laugh at someone having a pop at politicians for the way they behave then flatly refusing to answer a straight question. What an italicised, bolded hypocrite.

 

[Park Life 71]

You have to laugh at someone having a pop at politicians for the way they behave then flatly refusing to answer a straight question. What an italicised, bolded hypocrite.

 

 

It must be a fantastically complex point as it seems to have no recourse in common parlance.

[Happy Face 29]

Writes his own speeches too.

 

Incredible to contrast them with Bush's turgid victory speeches.

 

With the "Ashley" speech he's already created two moments to push "I have a dream" and "Ask not what your country can do for you..." in the public conscious.

 

Looking forward to the inauguration speech like an Only Folls and Horses christmas special when i was 12.

[Park Life 71]

Writes his own speeches too.

 

Incredible to contrast them with Bush's turgid victory speeches.

 

With the "Ashley" speech he's already created two moments to push "I have a dream" and "Ask not what your country can do for you..." in the public conscious.

 

Looking forward to the inauguration speech like an Only Folls and Horses christmas special when i was 12.

[Fop 1]

Yes, I mean the Muslim populations. Where are you quoting those figures from? I'm not arguing it is difficult to estimate. I'm merely asking where you are quoting those figures from as I suspect you made them up. Wikipedia would tend to back that up. It may not be the most definitive of sites on this matter but at least the figures they give are referenced, unlike yours. You made a big deal out of the numbers btw. I'm only asking where they came from. You still haven't answered.

 

There's a load of estimates, ranging from that to much, much higher (the wiki one seems to be a very specific one based on pretty hardcore practising muslims - which clearly is about as representative as the non-alcohol drinkers don't live as long statistical analysis).

 

Yes there are vague and at times contradictory, but the weight of evidence (as well as just basic immigration maths) comes down on at least 8m and possibly up to double that.

 

 

Don't you think most 'African-Americans' are of mixed race anyway? It hardly means they don't share common experiences does it? It doesn't mean they are less likely to experience racism if they have one white grandparent etc. On top of which you haven't demonstrated how Obama has manipulated how he is perceived. You've just kept repeating the notion he has.

 

Out of interest (and don't look it up) just how "white" or "black" do you think he is?

I know he is of mixed race because his Dad was from Africa and his Grandmother (who just died) was white. I thought it was obvious he was of mixed race.

I note you still avoided supplying a source for your figures which only reinforces my view you made them up.

Like I said "how much"?

I'd assumed half and half (-ish). Not sure in all honesty. Your point? (Being hopeful, obviously given you couldn't supply the source for your made-up stats).

 

Like I said what I stated is quite within the weight of evidence, but you're right I've not personally checked how many muslims currently live in the USA.

 

However plenty of others have.

 

Must be fellow freemasons as you are so coy to actually name them...

 

Well..... there was Hugh and Alfie they both definitively surveyed the number of muslims in the USA, although they were in the Boys Brigade I think, not the freemasons.

[Guest alex]

You have to laugh at someone having a pop at politicians for the way they behave then flatly refusing to answer a straight question. What an italicised, bolded hypocrite.

 

 

It must be a fantastically complex point as it seems to have no recourse in common parlance.

Or English. And people say politics is boring.

[Fop 1]

The ethnicity of Obama is significant because of the recent history of the country he is now president-elect of, don't you think?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

Could you actually put that into plain English please?

That would be racist.

 

Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either.

 

The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials.

 

 

See my sig.

 

 

 

Wahey.

 

Another WU bites the dust.

 

 

Did you really think I couldn't put it more plainly because it was racist? Or did I just you as usual?

[Fop 1]

My personal highlights from the speech.

 

It's the answer that led those who have been told for so long by so many to be cynical, and fearful, and doubtful of what we can achieve to put their hands on the arc of history and bend it once more toward the hope of a better day.

 

It was built by working men and women who dug into what little savings they had to give five dollars and ten dollars and twenty dollars to this cause. It grew strength from the young people who rejected the myth of their generation's apathy; who left their homes and their families for jobs that offered little pay and less sleep; from the not-so-young people who braved the bitter cold and scorching heat to knock on the doors of perfect strangers; from the millions of Americans who volunteered, and organized, and proved that more than two centuries later, a government of the people, by the people and for the people has not perished from this Earth. This is your victory.

 

He nailed it.

 

Fop even gets a namecheck. Can't say fairer than that tbh.

 

Word are not actions, never have been never will be. Your obsession is still clearly obsession though.

[Fop 1]

So assuming for a minute that Obama has finally acheived his goal of acheiving power, using his Afro American/White/Christian /Muslim perceived appearance and backround in a totally cynical fashion. Appearing as a race warrior and pioneer to those who seek one, an Uncle Tom to those who dont want to be threatened, an intellectual crusader to those searching for a humanist hero (I guess this is your point even though you same incapable of expressing it)

 

wtf does

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

 

actually mean

 

You answer your own question.

[Fop 1]

Would love to see Fop try and get away with putting the question to Obama on Newsnight:

 

"How black are you?"

 

"So can you give a percentage?"

 

"Thought not!"

 

*Turns to camera wearing smug grin. Cut to producer, mortified*

 

I'd never ask him that question. In fact I don't even think there should be a question.

 

 

But yet again you make my point for me.

Why did you ask me that question about Obama then (more or less)? You didn't tell what your point was when I answered it either.

Perception, but I think you peeked.

[manc-mag 1]

So assuming for a minute that Obama has finally acheived his goal of acheiving power, using his Afro American/White/Christian /Muslim perceived appearance and backround in a totally cynical fashion. Appearing as a race warrior and pioneer to those who seek one, an Uncle Tom to those who dont want to be threatened, an intellectual crusader to those searching for a humanist hero (I guess this is your point even though you same incapable of expressing it)

 

wtf does

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

 

actually mean

 

You answer your own question.

 

[Park Life 71]

So assuming for a minute that Obama has finally acheived his goal of acheiving power, using his Afro American/White/Christian /Muslim perceived appearance and backround in a totally cynical fashion. Appearing as a race warrior and pioneer to those who seek one, an Uncle Tom to those who dont want to be threatened, an intellectual crusader to those searching for a humanist hero (I guess this is your point even though you same incapable of expressing it)

 

wtf does

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

 

actually mean

 

You answer your own question.

 

Fop man explain your position on this in normal words so we can all follow it.

[Fop 1]

Would love to see Fop try and get away with putting the question to Obama on Newsnight:

 

"How black are you?"

 

"So can you give a percentage?"

 

"Thought not!"

 

*Turns to camera wearing smug grin. Cut to producer, mortified*

 

I'd never ask him that question. In fact I don't even think there should be a question.

 

 

But yet again you make my point for me.

 

 

Woo-hoo! Cake-and-eat-it time already.

 

Full house!

[manc-mag 1]

Would love to see Fop try and get away with putting the question to Obama on Newsnight:

 

"How black are you?"

 

"So can you give a percentage?"

 

"Thought not!"

 

*Turns to camera wearing smug grin. Cut to producer, mortified*

 

I'd never ask him that question. In fact I don't even think there should be a question.

 

 

But yet again you make my point for me.

 

 

Woo-hoo! Cake-and-eat-it time already.

 

Full house!

 

[Fop 1]

Fop, don't pull that semantics bullshit. I didn't and still don't know what you meant. Several others appear to be in the same boat. And how have you explained it exactly? I asked you what

"he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it."

meant and you implied I was stupid for not understanding it. How is that an explanation?

So, what do you mean by the bit I quoted?

 

Like I said I can't really put it more plainly, so either you're not trying your usual stuff in which case it's tough, or you are, in which case it's tough.

[Happy Face 29]

The ethnicity of Obama is significant because of the recent history of the country he is now president-elect of, don't you think?

It actually is, but IMO he's polarised into what people want (and he plays to that), rather than what he is (or should be).

 

I actually think he's doing more to sustain racism (perhaps not in the "traditionally" Western perceived way) than he is to destroy it.

Could you actually put that into plain English please?

That would be racist.

 

Obama can't destroy racism, he's not trying to either.

 

The fact that he was even able to run and has succeeded shows that race is now a small enough issue that the fight is already won. Oba has bigger fish to fry now, whatever kind of percentile you insist should be applied to his 'brother' credentials.

 

 

See my sig.

 

 

 

Wahey.

 

Another WU bites the dust.

 

 

Did you really think I couldn't put it more plainly because it was racist? Or did I just you as usual?

 

I was responding to the only "point" I could decipher in your original post, that "he's doing more to sustain racism than he is to destroy it."

 

That's why I started my reponse as i did.

 

I didn't thing you "couldn't put it more plainly because it was racist", I assumed (like everyone else) you don't have a clue what you're on about yourself so have taken to filibustering by responding to older posts rather than respond to what's been asked of you now.