Top 10 Conspiracy theories

[Ken 119]

Don't know if its been mentioned in this thread, but can someone explain to me how it is possible for aliens with technology beyond our imagination to travel hundreds of lightyears across the galaxy and then be so clumsy as to crash land in America? And then be incapable of reclaiming their technology from 20th century earthlings?

You are assuming that any advanced civilisations, providing they exist of course, are perfect and have traveled from one star system directly to here (Nevada, New Mexico).

 

It is quite possible the vehicle could have come from a base underground or on the backside of the moon, in the asteroid belt, the rings of Saturn, on Mars or one of many moons around other planets. Could it be that what crashed at Roswell were small Earth excursion modules rather than the interstellar, very large vehicles (space carriers, mother ships etc) which would have brought them to Earth just as our large aircraft carriers carry 80 or so small airplanes whose mode of propulsion is distinctly different from that of the carrier.

 

Also, for example when we examine major investigations to determine the cause of aircraft crashes, we often find, after much effort, that it was simple unexpected things ranging from loose bolts, to ingested birds, to faulty wiring, to pilot error, to ice in the wrong place. It could have been very high atmospheric electricity levels because of storms or the great dryness of the desert air. Perhaps it was shot down, by accident or on purpose. We know a radar set was on over at White Sands because of an impending rocket launch and the fact that it used vacuum tubes. Perhaps crossing the beam might have led to a small hiccup in the control system which led to a malfunction on the flying disks (there were two that came down in Roswell ) which caused them to collide. Perhaps the high radioactivity around the Trinity site (where the first atomic bomb blast occurred) caused a malfunction. We certainly have no reason to believe that aliens never make mistakes, or never run into the unexpected.

 

Some day perhaps the government will release the report that was undoubtedly written as to the causes of the crashes. Just because we don’t have that report, it doesn’t mean the event didn’t take place. In fact evidence like two affidavits released after these ex-military people passed away who state that it wasn't just a soviet atomic detecting balloon, but an interplanetary vehicle, and testimony like that from astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell clearly suggest that there is more to this than just earthly explanations.

 

You just need an open mind to come up with many plausible reasons for the crashes though. Of course if you don't have one than these ideas would obviously sound absurd.

 

 

Does that really strike anyone as plausible? Or is it not more likely Area 51 was a secret facility developing new (earth made) technologies for the US air force (e.g. stealth fighters etc) and people with over active imaginations (lets face it there's enough in that part of the world, as well as on here) have misinterpretted what they've seen? I know what my money would be on.

Aye, we know for a fact that such things like Stealth fighters, the U-2, SR 71, and various UAV's etc have been developed there. As Parky says, to put things into perspective the Stealth bomber was developed in the early 80's. Who knows what has been developed there since... the Aurora, scram jet technology, even yes, anti-gravitational vehicles. Witnesses from the area before it was properly closed off from any sort of public view in the mid 90's details accounts of things maneuvering in the sky which go against the current laws of physics.

 

This doesn't mean that Area 51 was specifically using alien technology, it could all have been the continuation of Van Braun's projects which began after WW2. However I do believe that crashed alien craft had once been taken there and other secret locations and airforce bases in the USA and Australia. They had to go somewhere right??

 

Being sceptical makes me open minded, not closed minded. You've given quite a lot of speculation there without presenting a single shred of evidence to back it up. Mother ship or not, the fact remains these aliens would have to possess the technology to allow interstellar travel, yet you are now suggesting they may have crashed because of faulty wiring or a human made SAM? How does this tie in with Parky's ants/motorway analogy or the failings of SETI, does it not seem contradictory?

 

I think your coming from an assumption that contact has been made, and this has consequently shaped your following thought process. I'd prefer some real evidence first. But, out of interest, how many people do you think might be 'in' on this? Wouldn't it have to be hundreds, even thousands? This is the fundamental reason I think all big conspiracy theories fall down, we like to gossip too much, and with modern technology (mobile phones etc) it would be easy to back the gossip up with some form of evidence. Yet there isn't any.

I wasn't personally calling you close minded, I was stating that those who think we are the only species in the universe/s would think my above theories and ideas are ridiculous. As for lack of evidence, well it takes an awful lot of time to dig up. I have read many books, visited many sites and watched many documentaries (some good, a lot of it rubbish) over about a 15 year period.

Anyway here's a few I've dug up rather quickly. The first is in regards to the sworn affidavit;

Affadavit realeased after death

 

This one I posted earlier in the thread, which you may have missed. It is astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell's take on Roswell and ET visitation;

Mitchell on radio

 

The points I was making earlier comparing crashes of airplanes to possible ET vehicle crashes was that I think it's wrong to assume ET's are perfect and mistake free. That was the only correlation that should be made between the two examples.

 

As for SETI, well, I can't really see any contradictions I've made. I think they're wasting their time, and I'll maintain that opinion. An AM radio doesn’t pick up FM signals. The Germans just before the start of World War II in Europe noted that we were building a whole array of tall (more than 200') towers with cross pieces which he figured had to be part of a radar net. The Graf Zeppelin slowly moved parallel to the array and listened and found no signals. The frequency being used was 10 times higher than what the Germans were using and they fortunately were never aware of how well their planes were being tracked.

If civilisations, with a great deal of common heritage and similar background and access to similar science, can’t correctly predict the technique to be used by similar people a few hundred miles away, why even assume we can second-guess aliens?

 

The crux of your argument is you need solid scientific evidence, which is obviously a fair point. The crux of mine is reading between the lines.

 

In regards to the secrecy involved and how it hasn't been leaked out, I'll give you a few examples here;

- The Manhattan Engineering District employed 130,000 people to develop the atomic bomb at a cost of several billion dollars in total secrecy during World War II.

- The Allies broke the German code during World War II and had 12,000 people working at Bletchley Park intercepting, decoding and translating German military communications. If the secret had come out, the Germans would have changed their codes. There was really nothing in public until 25 years later despite the obviously great improvements in technology.

- Same thing with the Japanese.

- The Soviets had shot down a number of military reconnaissance aircraft probing Russia, North Korea, and China causing the loss of 166 crew members. Their families were lied to: unfortunate accident, crashed at sea, etc. It was not until 2001 that the USA had a meeting with families of the crew members that they were told what happened, even though most of the losses occurred in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s.

- The Americans first admitted in 2005 that it had launched 7 satellites between 1962 and 1971. Their function was to conduct very sophisticated monitoring of electronic and radar installations on Soviet ships. Thousands of people were involved.

- The annual US black budget is estimated to be approximately US$30 Billion, 30 times the amount CERN spends. That's an awful lot of money to spend on research. People can only guess/fantasise what it is spent on, and only see unusual shadows/lights and here funny noises in the night's sky as evidence.

 

It doesn't matter how developed civilian communication lines are and will get, there will always, in my opinion, be a solid wall of silence at the very top. So long as the top brass get these government/military workers to pledge a patriotic oath of allegiance, and threaten to withdraw a very generous pension if they breach their contract, secrecy is maintained.

 

Example of bitterness at losing retirement benefits. Spilling the beans

[Renton 21392]

Good post Ken, nice to have a discussion with someone who knows their stuff and has their head firmly screwed on their shoulders for once.

 

Interesting point re: 'successful' cover ups involving the military in the past, but how applicable are they really? The first two were top secret projects in WWII for instance, I think it is much easier to keep classified information secret during a life and death war. Nevertheless, details of the Manhattan project were leaked to the Russians at the time iirc, explaining them very quickly catching up in the nuclear arms race. The possibility of a nuclear weapon being developed was never in serious doubt either, unlike alien artifacts.

 

Of course though the main difference between these examples and Area 51 is by definition the fact that they have come to light, before this they could merely be speculated on. So I guess what I am saying is I'll believe it when it becomes fact, and not before (incidentally isn't there some time limit the US government can hold on to classified information for before it is published, or do you believe there may be another tier of government, or above government, involved?). Unfortunately personal anecdote, statements, or even affidavits don't really count as evidence for me and therefore I don't put much weight on them, the person involved could have all sorts of motives for lying or may indeed just be stark raving mad (and, incidentally, why aren't they eliminated by the men in black in any case?).

 

And the difficulty with the fallability of the aliens still remains, I will always find it hard to accept aliens with the technology of interstellar travel would ever allow their technology to fall into human hands voluntarily, I'm happy to be proved wrong though.

[Ken 119]

Cheers Renton.

 

I believe the points I made in regards to successful coverups in wartime hold true and have relevance. Espionage is always most active during this period, and as you say the Soviets managed to shorten their development time of the A-bomb by about a year. 130,000 worked on the project, and at least one of them had to have been tempted to spill the beans for financial gain.

One of the greatest military coverups of all time was possibly relating to Unit 731 and Shiro Ichii. The whitewashing in the West in regards to their actions is astounding. He, and those who worked under him should have been the first to front the War Crimes Tribunal and been the first to be executed.

I know it's wiki, but it's a decent summary

 

As I've mentioned thousands work at Groom Lake Nevada, various other bases in the US like in Utah, Woomera base in Australia, and many of the installations are deep underground. Funded by a US$30 billion black budget, nobody in the US Senate questions it.

Also, read up on ECHELON. OK, it's a global surveillance operation, but really, does anyone know what its true mission statement is and what it really is up to?

I know it's wiki, but it's a decent summary

 

Aye it's all speculative, but it's speculative because they manage to keep it so secretive.

 

As for the US Freedom of Information Act, yes, information is subject to release after a time period of 25 years under the Clinton Administration iirc (this may have changed since Bush Jr's been in power though), however there are stipulations that need to be met for it to be released. Generally it's a wide scope of stipulations, like it cannot be released if it is deemed to be against national security policy, it cannot be released if it can be used as a tool to aid another country technologically or industrially, or it cannot be released if it is stamped "classified". It doesn't really leave much does it?

Much of what has been released has been blacked out, leaving full page documents with two or three lines of read-worthy material.

 

I really don't know whether there is a government within a government, or whether there is protocol that needs to be adhered to whenever a new govt is formed. There's been a lot of stuff that's been written about that and you can't make out authenticity from shit. Jimbo's example a few posts above is a classic example. Is it genuine, or just a good story???

MJ-12, I believe is genuine but some documents released relating to the issue have proved to be fake. If one piece of information can be debunked then everything else relating to the subject generally is, unfortunately - guilty by association.

 

But what is true is that the US government has consistently lied. So have the FBI, CIA and the NSA. The NSA released 156 documents relating to UFO's in 1980, forced to by the FOIA. 75% of its total content was blacked out.

 

The lies regarding the Roswell crash have been astounding if not comical. First it was a flying saucer, the day after it was a weather balloon. The alien bodies which witnesses described seeing was explained away as being crash test dummies, yet crash test dummies were not used in experiments until 1953, 6 years after the event. After admitting its mistake the US government then decided that they were monkeys.

Then in 1996 a govt endorsed book was released which explained it to be a high altitude balloon designed to detect Soviet atomic activity. It was laughed off by witnesses and the book had many contradictory points in it. Why all the secrecy for something which wasn't even cutting edge???

 

Ref. The F.B.I. Files: The FBI’s UFO TOP SECRETS EXPOSED - Nick Redfern

Majestic 12 Documents Update - Stanton Friedman

Crash at Corona: The Definitive Study of the Roswell Incident - Don Berliner.

The Roswell Report: Truth vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert -Col. Richard Weaver, USAF

 

 

Fascinating subject, but at times quite confusing. Truly, there is more to this than meets the eye

[Park Life 71]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

[Fop 1]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

 

It was not beating Chelsea that finally did it.

[Guest alex]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

So having knowledge of that got him killed but you're happy with bandying it about on a messageboard?

[Renton 21392]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

So having knowledge of that got him killed but you're happy with bandying it about on a messageboard?

 

 

Parky's living existence is contradictory to his beliefs.

[Park Life 71]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

So having knowledge of that got him killed but you're happy with bandying it about on a messageboard?

 

 

Parky's living existence is contradictory to his beliefs.

 

 

It's a strange thing with this presidents lark. As they are appointees and there for a short time, their level of top secret clearance is ridiculously low (they are basically not trusted and you can't shoot all of them). If we were looking at a scale of say 1-20 they'd be about a 12. The rumours are that the presidents that were briefed slightly higher were Reagan (Star Wars kerfuffle), Nixon (Nixon became part of 'the joint' based in N.Y.) and Bush Snr. Bush Snr knew a little more but that was due to his C.I.A days so he knew what to ask and when. If one considers there are 12 levels of 'Above Top Secret' above that scale of 20 you can see how clueless most presidents are.

 

 

The story with JFK is that there were a rather unfortunate conjunction of interlinking no no's where he refused to back down.

 

1. Inspections of Damona (the Israeli reactor) as they started to tool up.

2. Some low level disclosure regarding ET (maybe Roswell?)

3. He wanted to dismantle the C.I.A. to levels where there would be more oversight. (Particularly dodgy). He saw the C.I.A.

as actually a threat to the nation state when he couldn't reign them in regard to Vietnam etc...JFK was the first president

to come up against 'the insiders' who were growing in confidence. Of course guns, war, drugs and money laundering

is a very good way of making your own budget without bothering with those pesky congress sit downs.

[Fop 1]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

So having knowledge of that got him killed but you're happy with bandying it about on a messageboard?

 

 

Parky's living existence is contradictory to his beliefs.

 

 

It's a strange thing with this presidents lark. As they are appointees and there for a short time, their level of top secret clearance is ridiculously low (they are basically not trusted and you can't shoot all of them). If we were looking at a scale of say 1-20 they'd be about a 12. The rumours are that the presidents that were briefed slightly higher were Reagan (Star Wars kerfuffle), Nixon (Nixon became part of 'the joint' based in N.Y.) and Bush Snr. Bush Snr knew a little more but that was due to his C.I.A days so he knew what to ask and when. If one considers there are 12 levels of 'Above Top Secret' above that scale of 20 you can see how clueless most presidents are.

 

 

The story with JFK is that there were a rather unfortunate conjunction of interlinking no no's where he refused to back down.

 

1. Inspections of Damona (the Israeli reactor) as they started to tool up.

2. Some low level disclosure regarding ET (maybe Roswell?)

3. He wanted to dismantle the C.I.A. to levels where there would be more oversight. (Particularly dodgy). He saw the C.I.A.

as actually a threat to the nation state when he couldn't reign them in regard to Vietnam etc...JFK was the first president

to come up against 'the insiders' who were growing in confidence. Of course guns, war, drugs and money laundering

is a very good way of making your own budget without bothering with those pesky congress sit downs.

 

ET's run Damona as well as the CIA.

[Guest alex]

There were two to or three things that got JFK killed one of the main ones was his plans (in their infancy) to release information about Amercas contacts with ET.

So having knowledge of that got him killed but you're happy with bandying it about on a messageboard?

 

 

Parky's living existence is contradictory to his beliefs.

 

 

It's a strange thing with this presidents lark. As they are appointees and there for a short time, their level of top secret clearance is ridiculously low (they are basically not trusted and you can't shoot all of them). If we were looking at a scale of say 1-20 they'd be about a 12. The rumours are that the presidents that were briefed slightly higher were Reagan (Star Wars kerfuffle), Nixon (Nixon became part of 'the joint' based in N.Y.) and Bush Snr. Bush Snr knew a little more but that was due to his C.I.A days so he knew what to ask and when. If one considers there are 12 levels of 'Above Top Secret' above that scale of 20 you can see how clueless most presidents are.

 

 

The story with JFK is that there were a rather unfortunate conjunction of interlinking no no's where he refused to back down.

 

1. Inspections of Damona (the Israeli reactor) as they started to tool up.

2. Some low level disclosure regarding ET (maybe Roswell?)

3. He wanted to dismantle the C.I.A. to levels where there would be more oversight. (Particularly dodgy). He saw the C.I.A.

as actually a threat to the nation state when he couldn't reign them in regard to Vietnam etc...JFK was the first president

to come up against 'the insiders' who were growing in confidence. Of course guns, war, drugs and money laundering

is a very good way of making your own budget without bothering with those pesky congress sit downs.

That's a brilliant post Parky, whether it's all made up or not.

[The Fish 10776]

I'm fully prepared to believe there are aliens mooching about this planet, I'm quite sure there are life forms dotted about the universe. I don't believe they crashed in Roswell, I don't believe there's a mass government conspiracy and I don't believe Jim-Bob gets abducted and a probe shoved up his arse. There are much better ways to get information about a creature than buggering it... autopsy for one.

 

I'm sure if the little green men had sufficiently mastered a method of interstellar travel they'd have no reason to abduct a creature as ill-evolved as an American.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

I'm fully prepared to believe there are aliens mooching about this planet, I'm quite sure there are life forms dotted about the universe. I don't believe they crashed in Roswell, I don't believe there's a mass government conspiracy and I don't believe Jim-Bob gets abducted and a probe shoved up his arse. There are much better ways to get information about a creature than buggering it... autopsy for one.

 

I'm sure if the little green men had sufficiently mastered a method of interstellar travel they'd have no reason to abduct a creature as ill-evolved as an American.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

Heard a theory re. JFK that the final "head burst shot" came from the driver,using a pistol.

This clip certainly shows the possibility it may have

[Jimbo 174]

My instincts have always been that the final shot came from the front, I presume the book depository was behind the vehicle ?

[Guest alex]

My favourite JFK theory was when the viz implicated 'The King' aka Elvis by placing him at the grassy knoll at the time of the assasination. You probably had to have read it like.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

Aye, at all points when the shots start, Depository was behind and to the right of the car.

I've always thought there had to be multiple shooters, and as you say, the last shot seems to come from in front of JFK.

Given some of the more "leftfield" theories, this one seems fairly plausible to me.

Multiple eye witnesses reported a smell of gunpowder from the vehicle. If all the shots came from Oswald in the Depository, they wouldn't smell it by the car.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

My favourite JFK theory was when the viz implicated 'The King' aka Elvis by placing him at the grassy knoll at the time of the assasination. You probably had to have read it like.

Many people did report a smell of fried peanut butter & banana sandwiches from that area

[The Fish 10776]

I like the Theory put forward by the Red Dwarf team.

[Jimbo 174]

Aye, at all points when the shots start, Depository was behind and to the right of the car.

I've always thought there had to be multiple shooters, and as you say, the last shot seems to come from in front of JFK.

Given some of the more "leftfield" theories, this one seems fairly plausible to me.

Multiple eye witnesses reported a smell of gunpowder from the vehicle. If all the shots came from Oswald in the Depository, they wouldn't smell it by the car.

 

The movement of Kennedy's head, the infamous "back and to the left", along with the misting of blood seem to suggest the shot was from a forward angle.

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

Tangent Time....

Anyone read Underworld by Graham Hancock? He has a theory that relatively advanced (Ancient Egypt level of advancement for e.g.)societies existed previous to the last Ice Age, the physical traces of which were submerged by the melt water.

Good read that covers alot more than I can post here, answers alot of "land Mysteries"

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

I like the Theory put forward by the Red Dwarf team.

Remind me....

[spongebob toonpants 3956]

Tangent Time....

Anyone read Underworld by Graham Hancock? He has a theory that relatively advanced (Ancient Egypt level of advancement for e.g.)societies existed previous to the last Ice Age, the physical traces of which were submerged by the melt water.

Good read that covers alot more than I can post here, answers alot of "land Mysteries"

 

 

OMG I had forgotten the old Atlantis theories- I used to love all of that stuff. I used to love arguing that it was true with people to wind them up (foptastic) and ended up believing it myself. my personal favourite theory being the Antarctica once having been Atlantis and for Hapgood's Earth Crustal Shift hypothesis

[The Fish 10776]

I like the Theory put forward by the Red Dwarf team.

Remind me....

They travelled through time and knocked Oswald out of the window, the future that then transpired was of nuclear terror and mafia control, the America that developed was nothing like the one that the crew knew to have existed, so they travelled through time and space again, breaking Kennedy out of police custody, told him of the inevitable future, took him to the grassy knoll and gave him a gun and got him to shoot himself. He then disappeared without a trace.

 

 

... there's probably a better way of explaining that...

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

I like the Theory put forward by the Red Dwarf team.

Remind me....

They travelled through time and knocked Oswald out of the window, the future that then transpired was of nuclear terror and mafia control, the America that developed was nothing like the one that the crew knew to have existed, so they travelled through time and space again, breaking Kennedy out of police custody, told him of the inevitable future, took him to the grassy knoll and gave him a gun and got him to shoot himself. He then disappeared without a trace.

 

 

... there's probably a better way of explaining that...

Sounds about as rational as most JFK theories tbh

[Monkeys Fist 42129]

Tangent Time....

Anyone read Underworld by Graham Hancock? He has a theory that relatively advanced (Ancient Egypt level of advancement for e.g.)societies existed previous to the last Ice Age, the physical traces of which were submerged by the melt water.

Good read that covers alot more than I can post here, answers alot of "land Mysteries"

 

 

OMG I had forgotten the old Atlantis theories- I used to love all of that stuff. I used to love arguing that it was true with people to wind them up (foptastic) and ended up believing it myself. my personal favourite theory being the Antarctica once having been Atlantis and for Hapgood's Earth Crustal Shift hypothesis

You got me there...

Never heard that one