If Thaksin is a hero why isnt Ashley?

[Fop 1]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

 

Why? The club was in a position of having overextended a bit, not about to go bankrupt, a bit of belt tightening would have done the same job, just taken longer.

 

Ashley coming in seemed like a saviour, without a doubt, but he's managed to do as much or more damage to the club in a season as FFS, Feckless Hall and a totally not interested John Hall did in a decade.

 

Even now I don't fully understand how he's managed it.

[Douggy B 0]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

 

 

 

Why? The club was in a position of having overextended a bit, not about to go bankrupt, a bit of belt tightening would have done the same job, just taken longer.

 

Ashley coming in seemed like a saviour, without a doubt, but he's managed to do as much or more damage to the club in a season as FFS, Feckless Hall and a totally not interested John Hall did in a decade.

 

Even now I don't fully understand how he's managed it.

 

By putting you in a position that someone with real money was willing to spend real money on you?

 

Sounds like you are sitting pretty to me.

[Geordieboyo 0]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

And you think this because?

 

Let me guess, you read that Ashley said unless he came in the club would sink (a claim dismissed by the previous owners), yeah, because everything MA said was true wasn't it

 

I remember looking at your accounts a few years back under Shepherd.

 

You gearing was terminal and you were carrying a mountainous overdraft that could have been called in at any time.

 

Anybody who knows about finance knows that debt should be manageable and structured.

 

Having a Overdraft at 17% rather than a loan at 5% tells me that the markets were no longer willing to lend to NUFC as a long term concern.

 

I doubt many of you understand the above but in short it was a recipe for disaster.

 

There is a thread on Newcastle-online called 'Shepherds Legacy'. Read the analysis of the accounts then come back and explain how we were about to do a Leeds.

[JawD 99]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

And you think this because?

 

Let me guess, you read that Ashley said unless he came in the club would sink (a claim dismissed by the previous owners), yeah, because everything MA said was true wasn't it

 

I remember looking at your accounts a few years back under Shepherd.

 

You gearing was terminal and you were carrying a mountainous overdraft that could have been called in at any time.

 

Anybody who knows about finance knows that debt should be manageable and structured.

 

Having a Overdraft at 17% rather than a loan at 5% tells me that the markets were no longer willing to lend to NUFC as a long term concern.

 

I doubt many of you understand the above but in short it was a recipe for disaster.

 

I know all about gearing But, I'm not saying the finances or the structuring of the debt was good, I'm disputing your suggestion we were about to go into administration (and hence the -10 points or no club statement).

[Fop 1]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

 

 

 

Why? The club was in a position of having overextended a bit, not about to go bankrupt, a bit of belt tightening would have done the same job, just taken longer.

 

Ashley coming in seemed like a saviour, without a doubt, but he's managed to do as much or more damage to the club in a season as FFS, Feckless Hall and a totally not interested John Hall did in a decade.

 

Even now I don't fully understand how he's managed it.

 

By putting you in a position that someone with real money was willing to spend real money on you?

 

Sounds like you are sitting pretty to me.

 

 

No one will spend £480m on us.

 

I doubt anyone will spend £350m or £300m on us.

 

I'd be surprised if anyone will spend £280m on us or even the £250m Ashley has supposedly put in.

 

 

 

 

In the meantime we're haemorrhaging points and have a squad that is going to struggle with the best manager in the world and the most stable ownership, simply because it's too thin and still has gaping holes.

 

Outside of DIC coming in (which is unlikely I guess), I think the best anyone can realistically hope for is to avoid relegation this season.

[Douggy B 0]

The south africans already have a bid on the table.

[Douggy B 0]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

And you think this because?

 

Let me guess, you read that Ashley said unless he came in the club would sink (a claim dismissed by the previous owners), yeah, because everything MA said was true wasn't it

 

I remember looking at your accounts a few years back under Shepherd.

 

You gearing was terminal and you were carrying a mountainous overdraft that could have been called in at any time.

 

Anybody who knows about finance knows that debt should be manageable and structured.

 

Having a Overdraft at 17% rather than a loan at 5% tells me that the markets were no longer willing to lend to NUFC as a long term concern.

 

I doubt many of you understand the above but in short it was a recipe for disaster.

 

There is a thread on Newcastle-online called 'Shepherds Legacy'. Read the analysis of the accounts then come back and explain how we were about to do a Leeds.

 

Link?

[Tom 14021]

Post it because you need a log in for N-O.

[Geordieboyo 0]

You really need to read the whole thread to see where this came from, but here's the post I was on about........

 

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

[acrossthepond 896]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

 

 

 

Why? The club was in a position of having overextended a bit, not about to go bankrupt, a bit of belt tightening would have done the same job, just taken longer.

 

Ashley coming in seemed like a saviour, without a doubt, but he's managed to do as much or more damage to the club in a season as FFS, Feckless Hall and a totally not interested John Hall did in a decade.

 

Even now I don't fully understand how he's managed it.

 

By putting you in a position that someone with real money was willing to spend real money on you?

 

Sounds like you are sitting pretty to me.

 

Can you tell me where the "real" money that was spent on us was? You're so big on net spending - how about our 0 net spend this summer.

Or do you mean clearing the debts. Well to be honest I'd rather still be in debt with a better squad that had seen some investment rather than this shower, which offer us the very "real" possibility of "real" relegation which will lose us a lot of "real" money and bring that Leeds scenario you discussed that Ashley saved us from much closer to "reality."

[Exiled 0]

Thaksin is not exactly a hero but he is well liked by us fans at Man City. The club was in slow decline and he initially saved the day. There was a lot of dissent towards him in the 2nd half of last season, when it was on the cards that Sven was to be dumped. Then we find out that the Thai courts were not going to free up his money. So he sold.

 

Here comes the main difference..

 

He didn't go too far trying to be the friend of the fans. He knew his place - up in the directors box.

 

He didn't recruit what is essentially one of the club's family (KK in your case). Sven was undermined true, and the fans didn't like it one bit. But he was just another manager. Then he installed Mark Hughes during the close season. Great move.

 

He continued to show his face at the ground, rather than cry off at the first moment of dissent.

 

He sold the club to an owner who has the money to take the club further (hopefully), without the circus that Ashley's now created at your place.

 

I like Newcastle Utd a lot but the circumstances of the events over the last year differ. In the end, Thaksin stepped aside with good grace, got some profit but without screwing over the fans. We got what we wanted - stability and an opportunity to go higher.

 

After years of supporting a team that are forever screwing up, I'm over the moon about what has happened during the last couple of months. I hope Newcastle also come through this in better shape and able to compete again.

[Douggy B 0]

You really need to read the whole thread to see where this came from, but here's the post I was on about........

 

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

What he was saying was, the danger wasn't imminent (ie within a year) but it did say that if the situation got worse then it could happen.

 

The situation certainly want making you any more attractive as a potential target and my point about not being able to get long term finance was clarified in there.

[Tom 14021]

The power of nightmares + good PR

[Douggy B 0]

in fact it took a 45m injection from Mort to ensure you didnt go to the wall.

[Douggy B 0]

Thaksin is not exactly a hero but he is well liked by us fans at Man City. The club was in slow decline and he initially saved the day. There was a lot of dissent towards him in the 2nd half of last season, when it was on the cards that Sven was to be dumped. Then we find out that the Thai courts were not going to free up his money. So he sold.

 

Here comes the main difference..

 

He didn't go too far trying to be the friend of the fans. He knew his place - up in the directors box.

 

He didn't recruit what is essentially one of the club's family (KK in your case). Sven was undermined true, and the fans didn't like it one bit. But he was just another manager. Then he installed Mark Hughes during the close season. Great move.

 

He continued to show his face at the ground, rather than cry off at the first moment of dissent.

 

He sold the club to an owner who has the money to take the club further (hopefully), without the circus that Ashley's now created at your place.

 

I like Newcastle Utd a lot but the circumstances of the events over the last year differ. In the end, Thaksin stepped aside with good grace, got some profit but without screwing over the fans. We got what we wanted - stability and an opportunity to go higher.

 

After years of supporting a team that are forever screwing up, I'm over the moon about what has happened during the last couple of months. I hope Newcastle also come through this in better shape and able to compete again.

 

They will, thanks to Mike Ashley and his "cockney mafia"

Edited October 3, 2008 by Danny B

[Geordieboyo 0]

in fact it took a 45m injection from Mort to ensure you didnt go to the wall.

 

Which only became payable due to the takeover.

 

Therefore no takeover = no need to inject the £45m

[AmericanMag 0]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

And you think this because?

 

Let me guess, you read that Ashley said unless he came in the club would sink (a claim dismissed by the previous owners), yeah, because everything MA said was true wasn't it

 

I remember looking at your accounts a few years back under Shepherd.

 

You gearing was terminal and you were carrying a mountainous overdraft that could have been called in at any time.

 

Anybody who knows about finance knows that debt should be manageable and structured.

 

Having a Overdraft at 17% rather than a loan at 5% tells me that the markets were no longer willing to lend to NUFC as a long term concern.

 

I doubt many of you understand the above but in short it was a recipe for disaster.

 

 

Wow.. you are sad, aren't you?

 

Someone compared Danny to an STD... I was thinking Herpes. He is slightly irritating all the time but once a month he flares up and becomes unbearable.

[bawan 0]

Some one fucking ban Danny or stop him from starting topics, am sick of fucking reading the shit he writes, hes clueless and doesn't have the slightest bit of football intelligence in him.

 

 

Tom its all up to you to stop him

Edited October 3, 2008 by bawan

[Douggy B 0]

either way we are picking round the point rather than taking on the big issue.

 

Why is Ashley hated by toon fans (apart from the fact he fell out with KK)

 

He has saved you.

 

 

He has?

 

 

Have you seen where we are now?

And did you see where we were with Keegan?

 

 

I think we could do with out being saved like this, and I'd really hate to see him actively try to destroy a club.

 

At least you have got a rubbish club to watch. You may have had no club, or at the very least, one with -10 points.

 

And you think this because?

 

Let me guess, you read that Ashley said unless he came in the club would sink (a claim dismissed by the previous owners), yeah, because everything MA said was true wasn't it

 

I remember looking at your accounts a few years back under Shepherd.

 

You gearing was terminal and you were carrying a mountainous overdraft that could have been called in at any time.

 

Anybody who knows about finance knows that debt should be manageable and structured.

 

Having a Overdraft at 17% rather than a loan at 5% tells me that the markets were no longer willing to lend to NUFC as a long term concern.

 

I doubt many of you understand the above but in short it was a recipe for disaster.

 

 

Wow.. you are sad, aren't you?

 

 

because I spend my time furthering my knowledge?

[AmericanMag 0]

If your pusuit of knowledge consists of looking into the accounts of teams that you don't support... then yes, I would say that is sad.

[Douggy B 0]

If your pusuit of knowledge consists of looking into the accounts of teams that you don't support... then yes, I would say that is sad.

 

I found it amazing how we kept on losing out on players like Parker and Duff to you lot due to the massive wages you offered. That prompted my interest.

 

Perfectly valid imo.

[AmericanMag 0]

Alright then.

[sammynb 3640]

If your pusuit of knowledge consists of looking into the accounts of teams that you don't support... then yes, I would say that is sad.

 

I found it amazing how we kept on losing out on players like Parker and Duff to you lot due to the massive wages you offered. That prompted my interest.

 

Perfectly valid imo.

 

Bullshit, you were just hoping Jena's mobile number was printed in there by mistake.

[Tom 14021]

Some one fucking ban Danny or stop him from starting topics, am sick of fucking reading the shit he writes, hes clueless and doesn't have the slightest bit of football intelligence in him.

 

 

Tom its all up to you to stop him

 

Everyone Always asks me

 

I might try and put a topic preview on so pointless wind up threads can be avoided.

[sammynb 3640]

Some one fucking ban Danny or stop him from starting topics, am sick of fucking reading the shit he writes, hes clueless and doesn't have the slightest bit of football intelligence in him.

 

 

Tom its all up to you to stop him

 

Everyone Always asks me

 

I might going put a topic preview on so pointless wind up threads can be avoided.

And if he persists, let's just sing the Sol Campbell song at the twat because it's just banter.

 

FYP