Who are the British creationists?

[Fop 1]

Who are the British creationists?

 

 

By Julian Joyce

BBC News

 

Widely believed in America, creationism - the belief that God created the earth and man in six days - is enjoying a resurgence of support in the UK, say its believers and its critics.

 

At first glance the Genesis Expo museum, in the naval town of Portsmouth, looks like any other repository of natural history exhibits: fossils of dinosaurs and unusual rock formations.

 

But focus on the narrative of the information panels alongside them, and you start to realise this is a museum with a difference - one dedicated to the theory of creationism.

 

The revelation that US vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin is a "creationist" has raised few eyebrows in the US. Like Ms Palin, an estimated 47% of Americans reject outright Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, accepting instead the Bible's account of the creation of the universe - as laid out in the first chapter of Genesis.

 

If we came from nothing and go into nothing... that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles

Rev Greg Haslam, Westminster Chapel, London

Call for creationism in science

 

But in Britain, where a portrait of Darwin appears on the back of the £10 note, his theory of life evolving from primitive to complex structures by means of natural selection appears to be unchallenged orthodoxy.

 

Not so, say those on both sides of the creationist divide - a point amply proved by the existence of the Genesis Expo museum, to date Britain's only creationist museum. The museum is the work of Britain's oldest creationist group, the Creation Science Movement, which has built Genesis Expo to visibly challenge the theory of evolution .

 

In its walk-though display, fossils in glass cases purport to show that ancient animals - including man - did not evolve from lower creatures but were instead divinely created "after their kind" (Genesis Chapter 1, verse 21).

 

A picture of a landslide-causing volcano is used to counter the scientific understanding that rock strata took millions of years to build up.

 

And throughout the display are scattered examples of "intelligent design" - complex creatures that "could not have evolved" as the result of natural selection.

 

Gravestone exhibit

 

Leading British scientist and author Dr Richard Dawkins has warned of creationist "brainwashing" in the UK - spurred on by an unwillingness of the authorities to offend religious sensibilities. His creationist adversaries say their ideas are beginning to gain wider acceptance within these shores as dissatisfaction grows with "materialist" evolutionary explanations of how life began.

The pocket evolutionist - Charles Darwin, on the back of a £10 note

 

Museum curator Ross Rosevear describes himself as a "Young Earth" creationist, who believes that the earth was created in six days "less than 10,000 years ago."

 

Standing before the museum's prize exhibit - a mock gravestone inscribed: "Here lies the Theory of Evolution" - he rejects as "unreliable" the scientific tests that fix the age of the earth at more than four billion years. While he concedes his convictions are intimately connected with his Christian faith, he insists the evidence presented in the displays could convince even non-believers of the "fatal flaws" in Darwin's theory of evolution.

 

"All we are saying is that it is not unreasonable to present an alternative explanation of how life began," he says.

 

For some, it's an explanation that has gained a surprisingly wide acceptance in the UK.

 

A 2006 survey for the BBC found that more than a fifth of those polled were convinced by the creationist argument. Less than half - 48% - chose evolution.

 

And while the Church of England this week issues a formal apology to Charles Darwin, after long publicly disassociated itself from the creation story as a scientific fact, other churches - mostly on the evangelical Christian wing - adhere to old beliefs.

 

Growing support

 

Justin Thacker, head of theology for the Evangelical Alliance, says research in 1998 found one third of the Alliance church members were "literal six-day creationists." The other two thirds embraced evolutionary theory to a "greater or lesser degree" he says.

Ross Rosevear

British creationist and curator of Genesis Expo, Ross Rosevear

 

"Since that survey was done, I'd say fewer of our members are out-and-out creationists - it has become more acceptable to embrace some form of Darwinism," he says.

 

But Keith Porteous Wood of the Secular Society is unconvinced.

 

"There is no question that creationism is growing," he says. "It is increasingly well funded, and well organised."

 

The society says Britain is beginning to follow the lead of the US where supporters and opponents of creationism have joined battle - in the school classroom. Two years ago the government sought to clarify the rules on creationist teaching, following revelations that the head of science at one of its new academies was the director of an anti-evolution pressure group.

 

A spokeswoman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families says creationism is not included in the science curriculum because "it has no scientific basis... but it can be discussed in [religious education] lessons".

 

But that ruling was questioned last week by an influential figure. The Rev Professor Michael Reiss, director of education at the Royal Society, says science teachers ought to be willing to talk about creationism if students brought the subject up.

 

Creationist schools

 

He told the British Association Festival of Science in Liverpool that while making clear creationism is not accepted by the scientific community, teachers should convey a message of respect that does not "denigrate or ridicule" children's beliefs.

 

Charles Darwin - 200 years from your birth (1809) the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you

Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, of CofE's mission and public affairs department

 

Church of England - On the origin of Darwin

 

It's a sentiment that inflames the anti-creationist lobby, which sees any compromises in the classroom as a betrayal of children's interests.

 

"Creationism is anti-science," says Mr Porteous Wood. "Teaching it to children is a form of intellectual child abuse, because it gives them the wrong facts about life." His passionate views eco those of Prof Dawkins last month, who accused teachers of "bending over backwards" to respect "prejudices" that children have been brought up with at home.

 

And secular groups also point out that while state school pupils are "protected" from creationist teaching, similar guidelines do not exist to cover children who attend private religious schools - Christian, Jewish and Muslim.

 

One such school that teaches creationism as a science is the respected Islamic Karimia Institute in Nottingham.

 

"We teach what it says in the Koran," says institute director Dr Musharraf Hussain. "...that God created Adam and Eve, and from them came the rest of humanity. "We do not teach that man is descended from a lower animal - we say that God created the different species on their own."

 

This shared belief in the origins of man - and the universe - is uniting unlikely bedfellows in the anti-evolution cause.

 

The Rev Greg Haslam, who preaches the creationist Christian creed to his 400-strong congregation at Westminster Chapel in London, welcomes the determination of Muslims to impart a religious-based view of the world.

 

"Science does not have to be taught in conflict with faith or religion," he says. "I believe the current debate over creationism versus evolution is beginning to draw more and people over to our side of the argument

 

"The materialist explanation of the creation has nothing to offer - if we came from nothing and go into nothing, then that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles.

 

"Evolution is a world-view that leads to futility. It's no wonder people are dissatisfied with it."

 

 

USA you expect it, but the UK.

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Warning sounded on web's future

By Pallab Ghosh

Science correspondent, BBC News

 

Some feared firing up the LHC would doom the Earth

 

The internet needs a way to help people separate rumour from real science, says the creator of the World Wide Web.

 

Talking to BBC News Sir Tim Berners-Lee said he was increasingly worried about the way the web has been used to spread disinformation.

 

Sir Tim was speaking in advance of an announcement about a Foundation he has helped create that will vet websites.

 

The Foundation will brand sites that it has found to be trustworthy and reliable sources of information.

 

Future proof

 

Sir Tim talked to the BBC in the week in which Cern, where he did his pioneering work on the web, turned on the Large Hadron Collider for the first time.

 

The use of the web to spread fears that flicking the switch on the LHC could create a Black Hole that could swallow up the Earth particularly concerned him, he said. In a similar vein was the spread of rumours that the MMR vaccine given to children in Britain was harmful.

 

Sir Tim told BBC News that there needed to be new systems that would give websites a label for trustworthiness once they had been proved reliable sources.

 

"On the web the thinking of cults can spread very rapidly and suddenly a cult which was 12 people who had some deep personal issues suddenly find a formula which is very believable," he said. "A sort of conspiracy theory of sorts and which you can imagine spreading to thousands of people and being deeply damaging."

 

Sir Tim and colleagues at the World Wide Web consortium had looked at simple ways of branding websites - but concluded that a whole variety of different mechanisms was needed.

Sir Tim wants to help get the web to people who are cut off from it.

 

"I'm not a fan of giving a website a simple number like an IQ rating because like people they can vary in all kinds of different ways," he said. "So I'd be interested in different organisations labelling websites in different ways".

 

Sir Tim spoke to the BBC to publicise the launch of his World Wide Web Foundation which aims to improve the web's accessibility.

 

Alongside this role it will aim to make it easier for people to get online. Currently only 20% of the world's population have access to the web

 

"Has it been designed by the West for the West?" asked Sir Tim.

 

"Has it been designed for the executive and the teenager in the modern city with a smart phone in their pocket? If you are in a rural community do you need a different kind of web with different kinds of facilities?"

 

Creative medium

 

The Web Foundation will also explore ways to make the web more mobile-phone friendly. That would increase its use in Africa and other poor parts of the world where there are few computers but plenty of handsets.

 

The Foundation will also look at how the benefits of the web can be taken to those who cannot read or write.

 

"We're talking about the evolution of the web," he said. "Perhaps by using gestures or pointing. When something is such a creative medium as the web, the limits to it are our imagination".

 

The Foundation will also look at concerns that the web has become less democratic, and its use influenced too much by large corporations and vested interests.

 

"I think that question is very important and may be settled in the next few years," said Sir Tim.

 

"One of the things I always remain concerned about is that that medium remains neutral," he said.

 

"It's not just where I go to decide where to buy my shoes which is the commercial incentive - it's where I go to decide who I'm going to trust to vote," he said.

 

"It's where I go maybe to decide what sort of religion I'm going to belong to or not belong to; it's where I go to decide what is actual scientific truth - what I'm actually going to go along with and what is bunkum".

[Tooj 17]

Your thoughts Fop?

[The Fish 11090]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

[Fop 1]

Your thoughts Fop?

Pay attention the are already there.

[Fop 1]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

[The Fish 11090]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

Not a full and reasoned one, no.

But I'm sure if he were asked to clarify, he would.

[tinofbeans 91]

I loathe creationism. it doesn't work for me.

[Fop 1]

I loathe creationism. it doesn't work for me.

Give it about a week and try it again.

[Lazarus 0]

i dont have a problem with it tbh - as long as its taught in a religeous education lesson rather than a science lesson.

[The Fish 11090]

I wouldn't mind if it was taught in Classical Mythology. Because, as mythology goes, it's pretty classic.

[Fop 1]

i dont have a problem with it tbh - as long as its taught in a religeous education lesson rather than a science lesson.

 

That's not how they do it though.

 

It's all about picking a point and sowing doubt, never mind that the point in question is usually irrelevant and wrong anyway (like the example given about volcano's and a 6000 year old Earth).

 

Or indeed portraying Evolution as a single "theory" - which is as valid as portraying Chemistry as a single "theory".

[TheInspiration 1]

It's an idea that shouldn't pose a problem taught in religious studies classes. School students don't have the right to be taught alternative views instead of science, but I don't see the problem of it being taught as an idea alongside evolution. Is it because people are worried it will be taught as fact in Christian schools and evolution as a lie?

[Tooj 17]

Your thoughts Fop?

Pay attention the are already there.

Ah right. So your name is actually Pallab Ghosh then?

[Fop 1]

Your thoughts Fop?

Pay attention the are already there.

Ah right. So your name is actually Pallab Ghosh then?

 

Could be, could be.

 

 

If I were I'd probably be working on new story "Ouch - fact or fiction and it's relation to schrodinger's cat".

[Fop 1]

It's an idea that shouldn't pose a problem taught in religious studies classes. School students don't have the right to be taught alternative views instead of science, but I don't see the problem of it being taught as an idea alongside evolution. Is it because people are worried it will be taught as fact in Christian schools and evolution as a lie?

 

That's how it works, that's the only way it can work.

 

There's nothing to "teach" about creationism other then literal acceptance, the rest is just smoke and mirrors (such as ID).

[Guest alex]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

You accused me of nepotism the day you signed up iirc.

[Fop 1]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

You accused me of nepotism the day you signed up iirc.

 

Probably, it's rampant.

 

 

The problem is now if I put any opinion "I" become the story, if I don't "I" become the story (even though loads of other people do exactly the same thing, often for the same reason). I don't mind though really it's pretty funny in the end.

[Guest alex]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

You accused me of nepotism the day you signed up iirc.

 

Probably, it's rampant.

 

 

The problem is now if I put any opinion "I" become the story, if I don't "I" become the story (even though loads of other people do exactly the same thing, often for the same reason). I don't mind though really it's pretty funny in the end.

You love the attention like.

[Fop 1]

You love the attention like.

I accept it, and make do.

[Meenzer 15872]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

Homophobe.

[Fop 1]

We've just asked Fop a straight forward question.... let see what happens..

 

Can I ask one too?

 

 

Does "ouch" count as an opinion?

Homophobe.

It doesn't have to be painful.

[Guest alex]

Humourphobe more like.

[TheInspiration 1]

It's an idea that shouldn't pose a problem taught in religious studies classes. School students don't have the right to be taught alternative views instead of science, but I don't see the problem of it being taught as an idea alongside evolution. Is it because people are worried it will be taught as fact in Christian schools and evolution as a lie?

 

That's how it works, that's the only way it can work.

 

There's nothing to "teach" about creationism other then literal acceptance, the rest is just smoke and mirrors (such as ID).

Unfortunately, atheist teachers will be biased and will teach things as fact. In fact at the school I went to, my headteacher rejected applicants for teaching jobs purely on the basis they were Christian, no matter how bad the teacher they choose instead may be. Having a majority of atheist teachers teaching a majority of atheist students won't favour the Christians.

[The Fish 11090]

It's an idea that shouldn't pose a problem taught in religious studies classes. School students don't have the right to be taught alternative views instead of science, but I don't see the problem of it being taught as an idea alongside evolution. Is it because people are worried it will be taught as fact in Christian schools and evolution as a lie?

I think the problem is that it uses words like evidence and fact, when it's a faith-based theory. And there is neither fact nor evidence in religious theory.

 

It shouldn't be taught alongside evolution, it should be taught alongside Christianity, Judaism and the like.