Over a barrel ??

[snakehips 0]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

[snakehips 0]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

i'd assume that'd mean he couldn't really sell the club though, shooting himself in the foot a bit

the glazers had to from being a bit up shit creek from what i remember

 

Sounds like you're right, Ant. Unless someone else knows different, you have allayed my fears.

 

Keep boycoutting folks

[Offshore Toon 0]

Say what you want about Ashley, but had he not come in, we may have become the Fiorentina of England.

[Park Life 71]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

[snakehips 0]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I guess there are structures in place but how have the Glazer's managed to put all the debt at Man U onto Man U itself??

 

Oh, and my original post meant that ultimately he didn't have to sell the club at all - making us even more pissed off that we are now.

[JonGoodwyn 1]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I guess there are structures in place but how have the Glazer's managed to put all the debt at Man U onto Man U itself??

 

Oh, and my original post meant that ultimately he didn't have to sell the club at all - making us even more pissed off that we are now.

They haven't, half the debt has been put onto the club, the other half on to the family, around 330million each I think

[Park Life 71]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I guess there are structures in place but how have the Glazer's managed to put all the debt at Man U onto Man U itself??

 

Oh, and my original post meant that ultimately he didn't have to sell the club at all - making us even more pissed off that we are now.

 

The Glazers have personally underwritten the Man U debt. If it was called in they would be liable.

[snakehips 0]

Cheers folks. I was just thinking that the best efforts would still have Ashley laughing all the way to the bank.

 

btw, I'm still not sure that Ashley is the main problem at SJP.

[Park Life 71]

Cheers folks. I was just thinking that the best efforts would still have Ashley laughing all the way to the bank.

 

btw, I'm still not sure that Ashley is the main problem at SJP.

 

Ashley will leave primarily due the psychological pressure of knowing many thousands don't want him, this will hurt him long before financial issues.

[ewerk 31593]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I'm assuming that the club is still a limited company and if so then he wouldn't be liable for debts unless he has personally guaranteed them. But given the amounts he has already invested in buying the club and supposedly paying the debts off then it wouldn't make any sense to run the club into the ground.

[Park Life 71]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I'm assuming that the club is still a limited company and if so then he wouldn't be liable for debts unless he has personally guaranteed them. But given the amounts he has already invested in buying the club and supposedly paying the debts off then it wouldn't make any sense to run the club into the ground.

 

 

This is a myth about Ltd's if it can be proven you've mishandled your priveledges/responsibilities as a director you and your assets are still liable.

[Matt 0]

Here's how a leveraged buy-out works (or worked seeing as very few get done in the current economic climate).

 

The potential buyers set up a BidCo (for example Red Football Ltd at Man Utd). The investors have to inject equity (their own hard cash) into the BidCo and must arrange with banks or other investors (such as hedge funds) to provide the remainer of the money required to buy and run the club. The more debt to each bit of equity the more leveraged it is said to be. As you can always choose not to pay a dividend- but always must pay your interest on debt* then the more debt, the more pressure on the business to perform and generate the cash required to keep people paid. The banks and other debt investors are granted security over the shares of the company BidCo bought so that if they default on the loans, the borrowers get to effectively repossess the club, they may also be given security over specific assets (this can include players registrations).

 

While there's nothing to stop Ashley from putting a more debt-oriented capital structure in place, from his point of view it makes no sense. As he is sole owner, the club and his wealth are all tied up. The more cash the club has, the more the club is worth and therefore the more he can sell it for. He's nothing to gain by taking on debt to improve cashflow as this is more expensive for him than simply raiding the piggy bank. So I don't think this is a likely outcome.

 

* Man Utd have a thing called a toggle, where you can choose to pay interest or roll it over so it's somewhere in between debt and equity. The rates are exhorbitant and I don't think Red Football have paid it once yet. It's a bit like a massive credit card really.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Matt

[ewerk 31593]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I'm assuming that the club is still a limited company and if so then he wouldn't be liable for debts unless he has personally guaranteed them. But given the amounts he has already invested in buying the club and supposedly paying the debts off then it wouldn't make any sense to run the club into the ground.

 

 

This is a myth about Ltd's if it can be proven you've mishandled your priveledges/responsibilities as a director you and your assets are still liable.

 

It is not a myth, the veil of incorporation will only be pierced in exceptional circumstances e.g. carrying on business knowing that you've no chance of avoiding liquidation, even then it is very hard to prove. You have to be pretty fucking stupid to be caught out by it.

[Park Life 71]

Firstly, I must point out I'm not a financial expert.

 

Anyway, what I was thinking is this:

 

Most NUFC supporters are advocating not buying tickets for the cup games; not purchasing anything inside the ground; not buying anything from Sports Direct, as a means of cutting of the cash supply to Mike Ashley in the hope of forcing him to sell the club as his cash mountain diminishes.

 

Now then, the thing is, surely Ashley can just re-finance monies to his pockets using NUFC as the main debtor (as the Glazers did at Man U) meaning he wouldn't be losing a fuckin' dime and laughing at the supporters even more? He could line his pockets to the tune of £150m+, unless I'm mistaken.

 

I'd be grateful if someone with better knowledge of how the system works can allay my fears.

 

Since he took it into private ownership (not sure of the structure) he will be liable for debts. There are very strong rules in the U.K. reg best practice and director responsabilities.

 

I'm assuming that the club is still a limited company and if so then he wouldn't be liable for debts unless he has personally guaranteed them. But given the amounts he has already invested in buying the club and supposedly paying the debts off then it wouldn't make any sense to run the club into the ground.

 

 

This is a myth about Ltd's if it can be proven you've mishandled your priveledges/responsibilities as a director you and your assets are still liable.

 

It is not a myth, the veil of incorporation will only be pierced in exceptional circumstances e.g. carrying on business knowing that you've no chance of avoiding liquidation, even then it is very hard to prove. You have to be pretty fucking stupid to be caught out by it.

 

It's what I said without all the technical spiel.