The F1 2008 thread

[Ketsbaia 0]

Is it next year or the one after that barge boards, mini wings and a lot of the other aerodynamics detritus are being banned? Combined with the reintroduction of slicks, hopefully mechanical grip will overcome downforce again. I'd also ban carbon-fibre and kevlar suspension parts to encourage Arnoux-Villeneueve style overtaking battles.

 

It's proposed to be...

 

Have a look at this month's F1 Racing. They've got a piece on the differences between 2008 and 2009. Something like higher, narrower rear wings, wider adjustable front wings, no more excess airfix pieces fitted to the body work and slick tyres!!!

 

It's a start but there's more work to be done IMO. Shame they've dispensed with the split rear wing theory which would have encouraged more overtaking. I'd ban refuelling too while we're at it then overtaking is bound to be more prevelent.

 

Hopefully the KERS technology should sort out overtaking

[Craig 6701]

That's a tricky one. Fuel strategy has become such a big part of modern F1.

 

It's fucking shite though... and IMO is the direct cause of the lack of overtaking in the modern era of the sport. Back in the late 80s/early 90s you all started off the same... if you ran the tits off the car in the early part of the race, there was a good chance you'd run out of fuel if you kept up the same mixture.

 

You had situations where the leaders had to 'ease off' towards the end of the race allowing the chasing pack to catch up.

 

Control the wings, control the fuel, we've got the sticky tyres back (yay!) and let the drivers do the talking IMO.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Have a look at this month's F1 Racing. They've got a piece on the differences between 2008 and 2009. Something like higher, narrower rear wings, wider adjustable front wings, no more excess airfix pieces fitted to the body work and slick tyres!!!

Had a look at that in Smiths today. Next years cars should certainly be easier on the eye.

 

I'll be interested to see how the adjustable wings work out, but I'll reserve judgement on KERS technology for now. Like most things in F1, the teams with the biggest budgets will get the most out of it soonest (with the exception of Toyota).

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Terrific start from Massa.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Hamilton is off, looks like a flat tyre. Trying to limp back to the pits.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

First win for Kovalainen, Massa's engine let go with 3 laps to go.

[2bias 3]

Anyone watching?

Lewis doesnt seem to interested today..

[triggy99 0]

havnt been watching it but turned it on to see raikonens pit stop go wrong and see that man get stretchered off

[2bias 3]

Yeah that was nasty, been an incident with massa too could get time penalty. should do really unsafe exit from pits

[JawD 99]

Anyone watching?

Lewis doesnt seem to interested today..

 

Yet he still finished in 2nd

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Incredible last couple of laps at Spa, the best circuit of the year.

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

wow

[Meenzer 15870]

Spa + rain = always genius. Hamilton a bit lucky I suppose, but Raikkonen really can't hack it when the conditions get slippery. Very much Scary Evil Dad's Son's title to lose now.

[snakehips 0]

Great finish to the race.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Spa + rain = always genius. Hamilton a bit lucky I suppose, but Raikkonen really can't hack it when the conditions get slippery. Very much Scary Evil Dad's Son's title to lose now.

Ferrari have to throw all their weigh behind Massa now.

[Brock Manson 0]

What a fucking disgrace Ferrari.

 

Exactly how did Hamilton gain an advantage? He didn't overtake Raikkonen did he? No advantage at all.

 

Ferarri are cheats. Nothing but lying, slimey italian twats. Fuck right off.

[Meenzer 15870]

What a fucking disgrace Ferrari.

 

Exactly how did Hamilton gain an advantage? He didn't overtake Raikkonen did he? No advantage at all.

 

Ferarri are cheats. Nothing but lying, slimey italian twats. Fuck right off.

He kind of did get an advantage though. He let Raikonnen back through but was very much in his slipstream and poised to re-overtake right away. That area of F1 law is far too open to interpretation mind.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

By pulling behind Kimi then immediately overtaking him he left himself open to a stewards interpretation that he was still carrying momentum from the short-cut, I thought that at the time. Having said that, it does smack of the authorities wanting to keep the championship artificially close.

[Craig 6701]

It's bollocks Dr Ken... and I was fully expecting it.

 

What is expected in that situation is for the driver who gained and advantage to relinquish his position which he duly did. The fact that he was straight back on it and got the lead again before the next corner is co-incidence.

 

Raikkonen was having a fucking mare in the wet and proved it for the remainder of that lap until he stuffed it in the wall. Momentum or not, Raikkonen was not driving at full pelt and you can't punish Hamilton simply because he was... It was a race after all.

 

How long did they expect him to relinquish the lead for exactly? A whole 3 laps??

 

It stinks to high heaven but even more sadly, it's predictable beyond belief.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

It turns the fantastic climax of the race into a farce unfortunately. If the rulebook says the car that has gained an unfair advantage can't pass until after the next corner, that is how the stewards are going to interpret it. It's easy to say in hindsight, but Lewis should have been more patient.

 

The trouble is, the rule book must be bigger that the Encyclopaedia Britannica by now, and it is over-sanitising the racing and leading to races and championships decided in courts rather than out on the track.

[Meenzer 15870]

Steve Ryder on the highlights just now man. I can only assume he's gone black and never wants to go back.

[Craig 6701]

The FIA stewards' decision to apply a retroactive 25-second penalty to Lewis Hamilton has stripped the McLaren driver of victory in the Belgian Grand Prix and handed the win to Felipe Massa.

 

Below is the statement from the stewards explaining their verdict.

 

 

From: The stewards of the meeting

 

To: The team manager, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

 

The stewards, having received a report from the Race Director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to.

 

No./driver: 22, Lewis Hamilton

 

Time: 15:21:33

 

Facts: Cut the chicane and gained an advantage

 

Offence: Breach of Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA Formula 1 sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.

 

Penalty: Drive-through penalty (Article 16.3 (a)), since this is being applied at the end of the race, 25 seconds will be added to the driver’s elapsed race time.

 

FIA Stewards of the Meeting

 

Received by: Lewis Hamilton, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

 

Source: http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&id=43855

 

30.3 a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the

provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.

 

Source: http://www.f1-live.com/f1/img/regulations/2008sport_en.pdf

 

So if that's the case, where are the penalties for all that lot who ran wide at La Source on the first lap... and also those who went wide at Blanchimont towards the end?

 

They were racing for fuck's sake and the playback shows that at the first element of the bus stop chicane, Lewis was slightly ahead and therefore had the right to take the apex. Knowing that Kimi wasn't going to lift though he went for the outside. Kimi then chopped across the apex of the second chicane leaving Lewis nowhere to go! What was he supposed to do? Stop, reverse back on to the track and then keep going?

 

I'm in no-way a Lewis fan - I think he's a jumped up little shit with an ego waaaay to big for his shoulders..... but he's been stitched up good and proper here.

 

If anything, Kimi was in the wrong for not giving enough room.

 

While we're at it, I've scoured the regulations and I can't find any ruling whatsoever that states that an advantage gained by leaving the circuit has to be given back at all, let alone being specific about it has to be handed back until the next corner. As far as I can see, it's a gentlemen's agreement.

 

I'm willing to be proven wrong on that one though if someone can pull up a sporting reg to prove otherwise.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Lewis Hamilton shrugs off failed appeal

 

Lewis Hamilton said he was "disappointed but not depressed" after a court rejected McLaren's appeal to have the Formula One leader reinstated as the Belgian Grand Prix winner.

 

The decision left the 23-year-old Briton just one point clear of Ferrari’s Brazilian Felipe Massa with four races remaining. Motor sport’s governing body, the International Automobile Federation (FIA), said in a statement that the court of five judges had “concluded that the appeal is inadmissible” after Hamilton gave his version of events at the hearing in Paris on Monday.

 

“Article 152 of the International Sporting Code states that drive-through penalties are ‘not susceptible to appeal’,” the FIA added.

 

Hamilton’s retrospective penalty was imposed after the race because his offence took place only two laps from the end.

 

Drive-through penalties, which oblige drivers to pass through the pits at low speed before rejoining the track, are not susceptible to appeal because by their nature they can affect the outcome of a race, and the fortunes of other drivers, in an almost infinite variety of ways.

 

The FIA court of appeal’s decision suggests that a retrospective 25-second penalty will in future be counted as a drive-through; a point of view that the FIA’s legal department was allegedly keen to pursue in controversial emails sent out before the Paris hearing took place. There is no further recourse for Hamilton and McLaren, but the ramifications of the appeal and the FIA’s tactics may rumble on yet. Hamilton, who was demoted from first to third in Belgium after cutting a chicane, will now start Sunday’s Singapore Grand Prix - the first F1 race to be held under floodlights - with 78 points to 77 for Massa. Had McLaren’s appeal been successful, Hamilton would have had a seven-point advantage.

 

“People will probably expect me to be depressed about today’s result, but that isn’t me,” the British driver said after the court’s decision had been announced. “All I want to do now is put this matter behind me and get on with what we drivers do best - racing each other. We’re racers, we’re naturally competitive, and we love to overtake. Overtaking is difficult, and it feels great when you manage to pull off a great passing manoeuvre. If it pleases the spectators and TV viewers, it’s better still. So I’m disappointed, yes, but not depressed.”

 

A Ferrari spokesman said the Italian team would not be commenting on the verdict. The race at Spa was a tremendous contest, enlivened by the rain which fell over the last few laps. But the excitement fell flat when the stewards later ruled that Hamilton had gained an advantage by cutting the Bus Stop chicane while duelling with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen for the lead in the closing stages. Massa, who had finished second, was awarded his fifth win of the season instead.

 

Hamilton, who had handed back the position gained before overtaking Raikkonen again into the next corner, told the court in Paris he felt he had acted according to the rules. McLaren had also pointed out to the court that race control had twice given Hamilton the all-clear at the time. But all of this evidence was irrelevant once the judges had decided that no appeal would be allowed.

 

“We are naturally disappointed with today’s verdict, and to have received no ruling on the substance of our appeal,” said McLaren chief executive Martin Whitmarsh. “No-one wants to win grands prix in court but we felt that Lewis had won the Belgian Grand Prix, on track, in an exciting and impressive manner. Our legal team and witnesses calmly explained this, as well as our belief that the appeal should be admissible, to the FIA International Court of Appeal,” he added.

 

When Hamilton arrived in Singapore, he chatted and joked with fans while watching youngsters drive an F1 simulator in one of the city-state’s plushest shopping centres. Local sources confirmed that the recreational machine was not fitted with electronic stewards.

 

 

This is an interesting 'silly season' story, especially as Santander are one of McLaren and Hamilton's biggest sponsors:

F1: Rumours of link between Fernando Alonso and Ferrari grow

 

Rumours that Fernando Alonso might join Ferrari as soon as next year have gathered force after the Spanish newspaper Marca suggested that Banco Santander would be willing to pay the compensation required for ejecting Kimi Raikkonen from the Italian team.

 

Marca has a reputation for flying kites on Alonso's behalf, but this one has a fair gust of wind behind it. The fact that Raikkonen recently signed a contract extension to 2010 with Ferrari does not necessarily guarantee a seat in one of the red cars next year.

 

Paddock gossips have suggested that Ferrari put forward that deal in order to secure Raikkonen's support for his team-mate Felipe Massa's championship bid.

 

Raikkonen, the reigning world champion, has seemed curiously lacklustre of late, and many Formula One insiders are convinced that he has fallen out of love with the sport.

 

Marca also suggest that Ferrari have lined up a four-year deal for Alonso, which would give him the security he currently lacks. As a free agent at the end of this season, Alonso could choose to renew his deal with Renault, who are currently under performing, or replace Nick Heidfeld at BMW, who are increasingly successful. He may also be tempted by a big-money offer from Honda, where the iconic former Ferrari manager Ross Brawn is reshaping the team.

 

The one team he cannot join is McLaren, where his antics last year have made Alonso permanently persona non grata. Alonso going to Ferrari has a certain compelling logic to it. But with Massa challenging for the world championship with the solid support of Michael Schumacher in the pitlane, Raikkonen may have to be the one to make way for the incoming Spaniard.

 

At this time of year the Formula One paddock is always awash with this sort of rumour as the "silly season" of transfer speculation gets under way. But this item of tittle-tattle is more plausible than most.

[Rob W 0]

Looked amazing during the qualifications.............

 

no wonder Bernie E wants to drop dumps like Silverstone

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

F1's first 'night race' on this afternoon (our time).

 

Should be pretty spectacular, the two championship rivals on the front row of the grid too.