George Best

[snakehips 0]

Catmag, sorry if you thought I was calling you idiotic the other day, I wasn't, I used too strong a word. I was also describing the action not you. I'm also after that tetris crown 

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Too late! I hear that the voodoo doll is already made

 

Talking of George Best, here's a true story:

 

An Irish newspaper reporter went to do and interview with Best shortly after the end of his career. Everyone knew of Best's 'antics' and the less-than-fulfilled football career.

The reporter went into Best's hotel room, found him in bed with Miss World and Champagne bottles here and there.

The reporter says to Best, 'George, where did it all go wrong?' !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Alcoholism is something I have come into contact from time to time (not me personally as I can go for ages without a drink) and is something I couldn't ever give a reason to why it happens.

 

It's easy for us to condemn people when they have a problem as we are not under 'the spell' and don't understand what is going on in these people's heads.

 

Regarding his transplant, I am just glad that I didn't have a relative who needed a liver at the same time as he got his, only to see the one that he got totally wasted.

If I had have been in that position I would be a very angry man today.

 

Edit: I shouldn't have taken so much time to type this!

Edited October 5, 2005 by snakehips

[catmag 337]

From Sue Carroll's column in todays Mirror..

 

 

BOOZY BEST HAS CALLED TIME ON OUR PATIENCE

5 October 2005

 

My friend Tom is an alcoholic. Unlike George Best, who has been cushioned by money and the never-ending assistance of medical science, when Tom hit rock bottom 10 years ago the choice was stark.

 

For him, there was no new liver to replace the one ravaged by booze. The prognosis was straightforward. Continue drinking and die. Or quit and live.

 

Tom crawled out of the gutter - literally. A former radio presenter, he was discovered by an old colleague knocking back meths in a graveyard and hauled into a state-funded clinic. A decade on, he hasn't touched a drop.

 

As the 10th anniversary of his sobriety approached, Tom reckoned on having a bit of a knees-up. But the party has been cancelled. Five weeks ago he was diagnosed with throat cancer.

 

Of all the cruel hands fate could deal, this was one Tom hadn't anticipated. He's melancholy, of course. He's spent a few nights shouting at the sky and remonstrating with "him upstairs" for sending him into yet another debilitating battle.

 

He's also all too aware there's a medicine at his disposal that comes in a bottle labelled "brandy". But he won't succumb. He can't, he says, relinquish 10 years of sobriety. It's not just about survival, it's about self-respect, achievement and dignity.

 

And that's the difference between Tom, an alcoholic awaiting the results of an MRI scan, and George, an alcoholic fighting a drink-induced illness in a West London hospital.

 

One had the courage to face his demons, lay them to rest, gather up the debris of a life almost ruined by drink and make it work against overwhelming odds. The other didn't, simple as that.

 

In truth, fame has afforded George a better chance of recovery than it ever did Tom or thousands of other alcoholics who die unnoticed, friendless, impoverished and in pain.

 

Best has not been abandoned. Fans, obsessed with his footballing genius, still eulogise him. There's a long-suffering manager who remains loyal and, despite outbursts of alleged abuse, girlfriends are still drawn into his orbit - which appears to consist of a few pubs shamefully content to serve drinks to a shambolic wreck.

 

His son, to whom he was a virtual stranger for most of his childhood, has visited him in hospital. Even the medical profession has stood by him. A certain amount of wealth, kudos and goodwill allowed him a liver replacement three years ago when arguably there were more deserving cases.

 

Even then the public, while doubting the wisdom of giving an old soak a new organ, didn't begrudge him a second, third and even fourth chance. But then the patience runs out.

 

It's not hard to imagine how the family of his liver donor feel today, knowing the recipient has already hammered his once- pristine new body part with a relentless diet of white wine and brandy.

 

Friends say he's drinking more than ever, and in fairness he probably wouldn't dispute that.

 

Best's defence has always been to dismiss us as too pedantic to recognise he's a man in the grip of a disease. But it's one he has resolutely refused to tackle in a way that works. All the Antabuse pellets, medication and new organs are in vain if the inside of his head doesn't get treatment.

 

Best has spurned therapy, counselling and Alcoholics Anonymous. He may not be in denial about his disease but he's totally blinkered about accepting it as his responsibility.

 

It's this idiotic refusal to help himself that's brought him to the last-chance saloon. Though I'm not sure he deserves a last chance.

 

 

So if "him upstairs" is listening here's a request. Give it to Tom. Please.

[Renton 22031]

All the Antabuse pellets, medication and new organs are in vain if the inside of his head doesn't get treatment.

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Interesting to see the bit about Antabuse there. If you take this drug, it is almost impossible to drink - it will make you so sick. So really, you only need the will power to take a pill, or you can choose to not take the pills, which is basically premediditated. I wouldn't have to much sympathy for him really, he is planning this.

[Renton 22031]

But what set him on the road to depression? Clearly not being an all-time great footballer (in some peoples opinions) or a shagger of Miss Worlds.

What, if anything, caused his character flaw?

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clinical depression is a mental illness,no trigger is needed,

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That's true, could be a chemical imbalance in the brain. Can be genetic. I read a story about a bloke who was very rich and very successful but suffered from clinical depression. Every so often he'd feel it creeping up and check himself into a clinic for a month or so. I suppose he was lucky that he had the money to deal with it, but it just went to show that his condition was medical rather than circumstantial.

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Most depression is reactive though. Shit things happen in your life, and they eventually alter the biochemistry of your brain so that eventually you simply can't feel happy and look at life objectively - this is when you may need antidepressants. I've never been that low but I've come close - it is a truly horrible feeling.

[adios 717]

From Sue Carroll's column in todays Mirror..

 

BOOZY BEST HAS CALLED TIME ON OUR PATIENCE

5 October 2005

 

Quality piece of journalism that, we've gone from professional, distanced work with multiple corroberating sources to a vitriolic piece with anecdotal evidence from 'My friend Tom'.

[Happy Face 29]

Most depression is reactive though. Shit things happen in your life, and they eventually alter the biochemistry of your brain so that eventually you simply can't feel happy and look at life objectively - this is when you may need antidepressants. I've never been that low but I've come close - it is a truly horrible feeling.

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I'm clueless about any of this, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The most depressing thing about being depressed is the hoplesness, not knowing the cause and the feeling of uselessness in being able to do nothing about it. It's not a case of doing something to cheer yourself up. Happy to be corrected like.

 

WRT the Mirror article above, I only bothered with the first paragraph which was altogether shite. As I understand it George Best got the same ultimatum (stop drinking or die) and he stopped. After a year of sobriety he had a liver transplant. Why should the doctors have refused at that point. Now that he's drinking again I don't think the NHS would give him a transplant. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[catmag 337]

From Sue Carroll's column in todays Mirror..

 

BOOZY BEST HAS CALLED TIME ON OUR PATIENCE

5 October 2005

 

Quality piece of journalism that, we've gone from professional, distanced work with multiple corroberating sources to a vitriolic piece with anecdotal evidence from 'My friend Tom'.

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It's a personal opinion in a column, not a factual article.

Edited October 5, 2005 by catmag

[adios 717]

It's a personal opinion in a column, not a factual article.

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Do you think the readership differentiate? She should save it for the pub, she seems ill informed and someone might actually take her seriously.

[spongebob toonpants 4164]

From Sue Carroll's column in todays Mirror..

 

BOOZY BEST HAS CALLED TIME ON OUR PATIENCE

5 October 2005

 

Quality piece of journalism that, we've gone from professional, distanced work with multiple corroberating sources to a vitriolic piece with anecdotal evidence from 'My friend Tom'.

43223[/snapback]

 

It's a personal opinion in a column, not a factual article.

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Self serving anctimonious shite. The hypocrisy of profitting from other peoples misery in the guise of moral outrage. Cheap nasty and unneccesary

[maggiespaws 0]

Just to add this to the mix - I notice that some people have mentioned the liver transplant the the people who could have benefitted from it instead.

 

IIRC doesn't George Best have an extremely rare blood type? He was incredibly lucky to get a new liver as it is very rare to find one that is compatible with such a rare blood type. Obviously this should be a good incentive not to waste the opportunity.

 

I'd just like to point out however, that he didn't steal it from some other "more deserving" soul. Few would have been able to use the liver anyway.

 

Before I get flamed for being callous, I'm not saying I agree with his decision to start drinking again, I'm just putting some perspective on the "my friend Tom could have had that liver instead" argument.

 

 

We need a tin-hat smiley

Edited October 5, 2005 by maggiespaws

[maggiespaws 0]

From Sue Carroll's column in todays Mirror..

 

BOOZY BEST HAS CALLED TIME ON OUR PATIENCE

5 October 2005

 

Quality piece of journalism that, we've gone from professional, distanced work with multiple corroberating sources to a vitriolic piece with anecdotal evidence from 'My friend Tom'.

43223[/snapback]

 

It's a personal opinion in a column, not a factual article.

43231[/snapback]

 

Self serving anctimonious shite. The hypocrisy of profitting from other peoples misery in the guise of moral outrage. Cheap nasty and unneccesary

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Typical of modern day journalism though isn't it? Look at the Kate Moss example.

[Renton 22031]

Most depression is reactive though. Shit things happen in your life, and they eventually alter the biochemistry of your brain so that eventually you simply can't feel happy and look at life objectively - this is when you may need antidepressants. I've never been that low but I've come close - it is a truly horrible feeling.

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I'm clueless about any of this, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The most depressing thing about being depressed is the hoplesness, not knowing the cause and the feeling of uselessness in being able to do nothing about it. It's not a case of doing something to cheer yourself up. Happy to be corrected like.

 

WRT the Mirror article above, I only bothered with the first paragraph which was altogether shite. As I understand it George Best got the same ultimatum (stop drinking or die) and he stopped. After a year of sobriety he had a liver transplant. Why should the doctors have refused at that point. Now that he's drinking again I don't think the NHS would give him a transplant. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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The point I'm trying to make is that most depression is caused by a triggering factor - the breakdown of a relationship, bereavment, unemployment, living with a chronic illness etc. Hence it's reactive. It is actually a person's situation which phyically changes the biochemical function of their brain, once this has happened you are unable to "cheer yourself up".

 

As for Best having quit drinking for a year, so what? His liver was so knackered at that stage he would have very quickly died (and he did relapse even then iirc). Obviously the prognostic tests they did to establich whether he would start drinking again were wrong.

[Happy Face 29]

Most depression is reactive though. Shit things happen in your life, and they eventually alter the biochemistry of your brain so that eventually you simply can't feel happy and look at life objectively - this is when you may need antidepressants. I've never been that low but I've come close - it is a truly horrible feeling.

43172[/snapback]

 

I'm clueless about any of this, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. The most depressing thing about being depressed is the hoplesness, not knowing the cause and the feeling of uselessness in being able to do nothing about it. It's not a case of doing something to cheer yourself up. Happy to be corrected like.

 

WRT the Mirror article above, I only bothered with the first paragraph which was altogether shite. As I understand it George Best got the same ultimatum (stop drinking or die) and he stopped. After a year of sobriety he had a liver transplant. Why should the doctors have refused at that point. Now that he's drinking again I don't think the NHS would give him a transplant. Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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The point I'm trying to make is that most depression is caused by a triggering factor - the breakdown of a relationship, bereavment, unemployment, living with a chronic illness etc. Hence it's reactive. It is actually a person's situation which phyically changes the biochemical function of their brain, once this has happened you are unable to "cheer yourself up".

 

As for Best having quit drinking for a year, so what? His liver was so knackered at that stage he would have very quickly died (and he did relapse even then iirc). Obviously the prognostic tests they did to establich whether he would start drinking again were wrong.

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So we should just let reformed addicts die? Just in case they've got the cheek to have another drink?

[Renton 22031]

So we should just let reformed addicts die?  Just in case they've got the cheek to have another drink?

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No, you make an assessment on how likely they are to drink again, because this is directly related to the chances of their organ donation being put to good use (i.e. the recipient leading a long and healthy life). Clearly whatever assessment tools they used in Best's case didn't work.

 

Its not about morality, its about finding the most suitable person for a transplant who will get the most of it.

[Gemmill 46175]

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of him wasting the new opportunity he was given, I'm just sick of hearing about the bloke's trips in and out of hospitals. Bit callous and I wish him no ill but I'm just bored of George Best.

[Happy Face 29]

So we should just let reformed addicts die?  Just in case they've got the cheek to have another drink?

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No, you make an assessment on how likely they are to drink again, because this is directly related to the chances of their organ donation being put to good use (i.e. the recipient leading a long and healthy life). Clearly whatever assessment tools they used in Best's case didn't work.

 

Its not about morality, its about finding the most suitable person for a transplant who will get the most of it.

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Well, nowts going to be 100%. I'd say, if a bloke's stayed off the drink for a year, waited that long for a donor and then is lucky enough to match a donor, good luck to them.

[Renton 22031]

So we should just let reformed addicts die?  Just in case they've got the cheek to have another drink?

43267[/snapback]

 

No, you make an assessment on how likely they are to drink again, because this is directly related to the chances of their organ donation being put to good use (i.e. the recipient leading a long and healthy life). Clearly whatever assessment tools they used in Best's case didn't work.

 

Its not about morality, its about finding the most suitable person for a transplant who will get the most of it.

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Well, nowts going to be 100%. I'd say, if a bloke's stayed off the drink for a year, waited that long for a donor and then is lucky enough to match a donor, good luck to them.

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I agree completely,as long as there were not more deserving recipients, which according to Maggiespaws there weren't, so fine.

[Gemmill 46175]

I wouldn't listen to maggiespaws tbh. He thinks Pease Pudding was invented by Dr. Albert Pea.

[Renton 22031]

I wouldn't listen to maggiespaws tbh.  He thinks Pease Pudding was invented by Dr. Albert Pea.

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Ahh, I'll ignore him then. Only a complete moron would believe that.

[Happy Face 29]

I wouldn't listen to maggiespaws tbh.  He thinks Pease Pudding was invented by Dr. Albert Pea.

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That's crazy, everyone know it was Professor Albert Pea.

 

[sweetleftpeg 0]

The point I'm trying to make is that most depression is caused by a triggering factor - the breakdown of a relationship, bereavment, unemployment, living with a chronic illness etc. Hence it's reactive. It is actually a person's situation which phyically changes the biochemical function of their brain, once this has happened you are unable to "cheer yourself up".

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Oh yeah, I'd agree with that, but what I'm saying is that it can also be genetic. People can have a great life, be brought up in excellent circumstances, good education, lots of friends, success etc, but because they have a chemical imbalance they have bouts of depression, brought on by the medical condition rather than the circumstances. Like you say though, most are circumstantial where people reach a point that's difficult to get out of.

Edited October 5, 2005 by sweetleftpeg

[Renton 22031]

The point I'm trying to make is that most depression is caused by a triggering factor - the breakdown of a relationship, bereavment, unemployment, living with a chronic illness etc. Hence it's reactive. It is actually a person's situation which phyically changes the biochemical function of their brain, once this has happened you are unable to "cheer yourself up".

43259[/snapback]

 

Oh yeah, I'd agree with that, but what I'm saying is that it can also be genetic. People can have a great life, be brought up in excellent circumstances, good education, lots of friends, success etc, but because they have a chemical imbalance they have bouts of depression, brought on by the medical condition rather than the circumstances. Like you say though, most are circumstantial where people reach a point that's difficult to get out of.

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Well manic depression (bipolar disease) is an example of that, there may be others, but they are relatively rare. You're right about them though - not a lot you can if you're affected other than take the relevant medication.

[maggiespaws 0]

I wouldn't listen to maggiespaws tbh.  He thinks Pease Pudding was invented by Dr. Albert Pea.

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I can see I'm going to have to endure this for some time to come so I'm not going to bite as I'm only encouraging you.

 

I know I didn't believe him and I rather suspect you do too.

 

 

Edit: Of course, by posting the above I have bitten and therefore encouraged you....

 

 

 

I'll just stop typing now.......

Edited October 5, 2005 by maggiespaws

[Smooth Operator 10]

I've got George Best in a Celebrity Deathmatch sweepstake at work, basically we all pick 3 celebs, put in a quid a week and whoevers celeb pops their clogs first wins the pot. So i've got a vested interest in Best's condition!!!

 

Of late both Richard Whitley and Ronnie Barker have caught us by suprise as no one has picked them.

 

We could set one up on here like, i don't think i have the IT know-how like, any offers, obviously there'd be no money at stake just pride and some sort of deathmatch league table to keep score?