AbsolutKazakh 0 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I don't know much about Kazakhstan, so pardon my ignorance but is that the country where the head of state built a new capital city from scratch. Supposed to be a smashing city, and the work done (infrastructure, buildings etc) rivals that of Dubai??? As for Turkey, yes luckily they are a secular state, with modern thinking people, but there is support for a religious head of state... very dangerous if that happens. Yeah, Astana. It's very nice, but no city on Earth rivals Dubai. We're in the process of building ourselves up, though not where I am from. I lived in the mountainous region, where if you don't have any contact with the outside world, you would think you're living in B.C. times. Turkey and the UAE should be models for Muslim countries. You don't need a religious government and you can still have your Muslim faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 But on a more serious note, this has been going on for a long time...Russia has just decided to raise the stakes. It may have something to do with the fact Georgia has recently made moves to join NATO thus taking them out of Russia's sphere of influence. They've done a good job at keeping Azerbaijan in their realm. I would not be surprised if Russia makes some violent moves against Armenia in the near future...no wait, nevermind...they have Turkey doing that. Turkey has a pact with Israel and 2 U.S. airforce bases. Doubt they're doing anything for Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Excellent point. Aside from the sphere of influence bit, Russia wants it to be known they are a world power once again... And they do that by attacking countries much weaker than themselves. This situation can get really ugly, very fast. I know the West feels like something needs to be done, but what can you do? If you step in, you make Turkey, Russia, us, and the rest of Central Asia very uneasy...and people forget how close Iran is to all of this. Granted, Iran's relations with Georgia aren't the best, but they are good friends with Azerbaijan. All the countries you've mentioned, well I know Russia, Turkey and Iran (I'll add China to that as well) would sacrifice thousands and thousands of men to achieve objectives. It's the type of war Western Europe and the USA would not favour, hence why they would virtually be left alone, or at least why disputes would not be met with force but only diplomatic protests. Turkey may not, they're still after the EU bid, but Russia, China, and Iran would. They are preparing themselves for that. As far as Kazakhstan and the other 'stans, what we do with our military is for defense. I highly doubt we would get involved in this particular, hypothetical conflict because we really don't have any bad relations with anyone. We would be neutral, but that would mean no free airspace. Did the Kazacs manage to steal any nukes before the got shipped back to Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutKazakh 0 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 But on a more serious note, this has been going on for a long time...Russia has just decided to raise the stakes. It may have something to do with the fact Georgia has recently made moves to join NATO thus taking them out of Russia's sphere of influence. They've done a good job at keeping Azerbaijan in their realm. I would not be surprised if Russia makes some violent moves against Armenia in the near future...no wait, nevermind...they have Turkey doing that. Turkey has a pact with Israel and 2 U.S. airforce bases. Doubt they're doing anything for Russia. Not for Russia, but for themselves involving the Caucasus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 BBC are saying Georgia have withdrawn from South Ossetia, probably for the best! Georgian sources are saying Russia is attacking other contested areas outside of the direct area, don't think there's any independent verification yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 874 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Admitting to no specialty in Caucuses affairs, my take on it: South Ossetia is part of Georgia, which is a sovereign nation. This entire incident is therefore a flagrant violation of Georgia's territorial integrity by Russia (whether or not S. Ossetians actually do want to be part of Russia, they are officially Georgians and if they want to secede there are other ways to go about it) which should be condemned. Sadly, these days "territorial integrity" doesn't appear to count for too much. I think this is just a test case for Russia. If there is no major outcry and South Ossetia is absorbed into Russia in the end, I think we'll be finding out about many more "oppressed Russian minorities" who need to be "protected" in places like Latvia, Estonia, Azerbaijan, etc. What precedent does this set? Next we might have Iran invading Iraq to "protect" the "oppressed Shi'a population." As for Turkey, any country where you're actually forbidden to wear the headscarf is no Muslim country. How is forbidding it any better than forcing people to wear it? But one is roundly condemned while the other violation of personal freedom is considered "progressive." I have no time for Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutKazakh 0 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Admitting to no specialty in Caucuses affairs, my take on it: South Ossetia is part of Georgia, which is a sovereign nation. This entire incident is therefore a flagrant violation of Georgia's territorial integrity by Russia (whether or not S. Ossetians actually do want to be part of Russia, they are officially Georgians and if they want to secede there are other ways to go about it) which should be condemned. Sadly, these days "territorial integrity" doesn't appear to count for too much. I think this is just a test case for Russia. If there is no major outcry and South Ossetia is absorbed into Russia in the end, I think we'll be finding out about many more "oppressed Russian minorities" who need to be "protected" in places like Latvia, Estonia, Azerbaijan, etc. What precedent does this set? Next we might have Iran invading Iraq to "protect" the "oppressed Shi'a population." As for Turkey, any country where you're actually forbidden to wear the headscarf is no Muslim country. How is forbidding it any better than forcing people to wear it? But one is roundly condemned while the other violation of personal freedom is considered "progressive." I have no time for Turkey. Have you read about Nagorno-Garabagh (or Karabakh if you will)? It's kind of a similar situation involving Azerbaijan and Armenia that Russia has been behind the curtain on. They supplied both sides with weapons and money. Latvia and Estonia are getting into Europe and I will admit I don't know too much about Europe so I can't comment on those two, but I see what you're saying. I called Turkey a Muslim country because the majority of its citizens are. It's not any better at all. France just turned away a woman from Africa I believe because she refused to stop wearing the headscarf. They denied her citizenship. Why not let people choose their own lives? It is her option to wear it, not the government's. This is an entirely different issue though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 As for Turkey, any country where you're actually forbidden to wear the headscarf is no Muslim country. How is forbidding it any better than forcing people to wear it? But one is roundly condemned while the other violation of personal freedom is considered "progressive." I have no time for Turkey. You're not forbidden (unlike being gay for example ), just you're not allowed to in some places, and rightly so. Religion has no place in education for example (although religion will always try to get into education as it's a prime place to brainwash your population and spread), Turkey (like France) is quite right in their beliefs about that. One of the bizarre things in the UK is that some religious paraphernalia is allowed, yet for everyone else similar things in the same situation are banned for Health and Safety reasons. (maybe god does protect ) And that Jedi isn't a recognised religion in the UK, despite being the 3rd most populous given answer on the last census. (Forceophobia is rampant in the UK) Not that this has anything to do with Russia and Georgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Anyone who put down 'Jedi' on their census form is a cockknocker. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 it seemed zany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Anyone who put down 'Jedi' on their census form is a cockknocker. That is all. Racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoda Kid 1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Anyone who put down 'Japseye' on their census form is a cockknocker. That is all. FYP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Anyone who put down 'Jedi' on their census form is a cockknocker. That is all. Racist. It's this kind of entrenched bigotry that makes it hard to be proud of your religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 874 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 As for Turkey, any country where you're actually forbidden to wear the headscarf is no Muslim country. How is forbidding it any better than forcing people to wear it? But one is roundly condemned while the other violation of personal freedom is considered "progressive." I have no time for Turkey. You're not forbidden (unlike being gay for example ), just you're not allowed to in some places, and rightly so. Religion has no place in education for example (although religion will always try to get into education as it's a prime place to brainwash your population and spread), Turkey (like France) is quite right in their beliefs about that. You're having a laugh. Religion has no place in education because religion will brainwash the students and thus spread? So a piece of cloth wrapped around some brown bird's head in front of you in Physics 101 at Northumbria University is going to emit gamma rays that will slowly cause you to shun pork, get circumcised, and give you a strange guilty feeling five times a day? And if that's true, then what about the cross around the neck of the white bird behind you? Christmas trees? Pastrami sandwiches? Cows? Are these all dangerous religious iconography that should be banned from education for fear of brainwashing? They're symbols. Nothing more. And people in free countries should be allowed to wear whatever symbols they should so want, whenever they should so want. Bringing a headscarf into university isn't bringing religion into the schools, end of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 As for Turkey, any country where you're actually forbidden to wear the headscarf is no Muslim country. How is forbidding it any better than forcing people to wear it? But one is roundly condemned while the other violation of personal freedom is considered "progressive." I have no time for Turkey. You're not forbidden (unlike being gay for example ), just you're not allowed to in some places, and rightly so. Religion has no place in education for example (although religion will always try to get into education as it's a prime place to brainwash your population and spread), Turkey (like France) is quite right in their beliefs about that. You're having a laugh. Religion has no place in education because religion will brainwash the students and thus spread? So a piece of cloth wrapped around some brown bird's head in front of you in Physics 101 at Northumbria University is going to emit gamma rays that will slowly cause you to shun pork, get circumcised, and give you a strange guilty feeling five times a day? And if that's true, then what about the cross around the neck of the white bird behind you? Christmas trees? Pastrami sandwiches? Cows? Are these all dangerous religious iconography that should be banned from education for fear of brainwashing? They're symbols. Nothing more. And people in free countries should be allowed to wear whatever symbols they should so want, whenever they should so want. Bringing a headscarf into university isn't bringing religion into the schools, end of. All religious symbols are about marking out difference (just like dogs pissing on their territory), them and us, with us or against us. You can belong to something so long as you conform to our demands. All religion is built on such basic psychology..... and yes there is no place for such brainwashing in education (just like political symbolism and gang symbolism, it all the same principle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Anyone who put down 'Jedi' on their census form is a cockknocker. That is all. Racist. It's this kind of entrenched bigotry that makes it hard to be proud of your religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) But on a more serious note, this has been going on for a long time...Russia has just decided to raise the stakes. It may have something to do with the fact Georgia has recently made moves to join NATO thus taking them out of Russia's sphere of influence. They've done a good job at keeping Azerbaijan in their realm. I would not be surprised if Russia makes some violent moves against Armenia in the near future...no wait, nevermind...they have Turkey doing that. Turkey has a pact with Israel and 2 U.S. airforce bases. Doubt they're doing anything for Russia. russian - Turkish emnity goes back a long way before NATO the Azeris like to snuggle uo to the Yanks without straying too far out of Russia;s circle Georgia has a little oil & gas but S Ossetia has bugger all of anything as far as I know Edited August 11, 2008 by Rob W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Russia is on the move. They came to me and told me that MVB is now a key advisor and he says Go! Go! Go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Oil or gas. Or both. According to the news. Surprised Rob doesn't know about it. Supposedly the only way of getting said resources out of that part of the world and to Europe without going through (and being held to ransom by) Russia. I expect we'll get an expert response once google is up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Oil or gas. Or both. According to the news. Surprised Rob doesn't know about it. Supposedly the only way of getting said resources out of that part of the world and to Europe without going through (and being held to ransom by) Russia. I expect we'll get an expert response once google is up to speed. It's a significant part of the reason Russia is interested in the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Oil or gas. Or both. According to the news. Surprised Rob doesn't know about it. Supposedly the only way of getting said resources out of that part of the world and to Europe without going through (and being held to ransom by) Russia. I expect we'll get an expert response once google is up to speed. It's a significant part of the reason Russia is interested in the place. No shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Oil or gas. Or both. According to the news. Surprised Rob doesn't know about it. Supposedly the only way of getting said resources out of that part of the world and to Europe without going through (and being held to ransom by) Russia. I expect we'll get an expert response once google is up to speed. It's a significant part of the reason Russia is interested in the place. No shit? Yup, see my first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? Oil or gas. Or both. According to the news. Surprised Rob doesn't know about it. Supposedly the only way of getting said resources out of that part of the world and to Europe without going through (and being held to ransom by) Russia. I expect we'll get an expert response once google is up to speed. It's a significant part of the reason Russia is interested in the place. My question was more a retort to Rob's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 I thought an oil pipeline ran through the Ossetia region? near brothers near thats a thereat - the russians can "acciently" bulldoze it I guess which really WOULD leave BP up the spout. just heard they've (BP) closed it until things calm down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now