Keegan and Ashley row over Everton move for Smith

[Happy Face 29]

If you don't talk to the media you're a "recluse" by their reckoning.

 

Ashley never did and still doesn't. The only difference is he's become far more famous and noticeably non-reclusive.

 

I imagine Ashley went to the pub before buying Newcastle, continuing to do so is no tactical masterplan.

[Kitman 2204]

I think he had a reputation as being reclusive from Sports Direct. He built the company up from 'flying under the radar' and keeping a low profile. He may have bought the toon to have a bit of fun and get out more. That's my theory anyway. There's no doubt in my mind there were some PR stunts (and no more than Quinn did with the mackems by the way), but from what I've read he was genuinely low profile before he came to us.

Edited August 8, 2008 by Kitman

[LeazesMag 0]

I reckon he portrayed himself as a recluse well upon his arrival. Then it was all ' the previously reclusive Mike Ashley drinking with the Toon fans' etc. I mean, he wouldn't be in the papers much (beyond the odd bit in the business pages) before he bought the club / the takeover bid, would he? I reckon the 'reclusive' thing was a nice bit of propaganda on his part so it would seem his mixing with the locals was out of character and a sign of how he'd taken the club to his heart and all that shite.

 

Do you credit him with that kind of media savvy?

I just have, haven't I?

 

Indeed but my question was really asking you to reconsider what you had just wrote.

I got that thanks.

 

And?

And what? I haven't changed my mind.

Oh dear.

It's just a theory I have. I don't know that it's true but it would hardly have required a masterstroke of PR would it? He's a bit of a recluse in the eyes of the majority of the sports media because they don't know much about him, yes? Beyond his involvement in Sports Direct that is. He then does a few PR stunts like buying drinks in Blu Bambo and going in the away end and all of a sudden he's carried away by the enthusiasm of the Geordie fans? I don't quite buy it myself. I fully accept I may be being overly cynical.

 

I'm with you there Alex

[LeazesMag 0]

I think he realised that you cant hide away if your a football club owner. I dont think he was trying to con anyone just show his enthusiasm for the club.

Ashley is NOT a newcastle fan, he doesn't even have a football club.

 

But having a fan in charge is not always the best way to run one.

Where did I say it was? Honestly you miss the fucking point every time I make a post. Even when I explain and clarify what I meant.

 

Where did I say that you said it was

 

The whole Ashley being a fan was an add on to my original point (highlighted).

 

Jeez this is hard work.

 

you still here you fuckin pleb

[LeazesMag 0]

Amazing, Why do people disbelieve things that doesn't suit them ?

 

This is highly likely.

 

The Keegan mark 1 of 15 years ago would have walked out at least 3 times by now, he can't be happy with the summer, so why are you choosing to disbelieve it ?

 

lack of quotes and the fact that the press have had generally fuck all idea whats been going on inside the club this summer

 

if the press have had generally fuck all idea whats been going on inside the club this summer, thats because it appears that fuck all has been going on inside the club this summer.

 

Thats the clubs fault for poor communication to the supporters. Very important, ignore it at their peril.

 

The only hard factual information we have, and the press have, is a shit small squad and a huge failure so far to get the managers transfer targets and appear to make an effort to compete and get back to competing with other clubs of our standing.

 

So what do you want the press to say ? That we've signed players we haven't ?

 

LM you're wrong

 

Poor communication? How many times have they got to come out and say stuff? They have said the club is not being sold but are looking for investment, they have said they are not looking for "Trophy" signings, Im not sure what else you want them to come out and say?

 

How had there been a huge failure to get the managers targets? I know you are not nieive enough to think we will land each one we target? If the failure was that huge surely we wouldn't have signed anyone? The signings he has made so far, Im pretty happy with. Certainly more so than in recent times. Fine, they are not £15M+ players, but is that was KK is like? Is KK not one to bring on lesser known players as well as putting an arm around the bigger names? I know Im looking forward to seeing how Guthrie develops, how Bassong develops and if Jonas can pick up the pace of the Premiership quickly. Then we know we have Coloccini on his way in. And the window isnt closed yet?

 

Look at the players we have let go? Carr, Ramage, Rozenhal, to name a few. Would you have kept any of these? Smith? would you really keep him?

 

Personally, while I do think our squad is thread bare (and was before KK came along), Im happy with the additions and my perceived quality of them.

 

You might look back at us getting in to Europe but consider this. We made Champions league a couple of times. That rocketted the clubs income. That meant we could go out and spend bigger on players and wages. Then the Partizan game happened. We were out on our ear and the income fell. Yet, we maintained our spending and the wages ratio increased to an unhealthy level. Yet, we continue to bring in big wage players. Now do you think this was good business? I think FS gambled, I think he thought by making sure we spent the money we would get into europe and it would pay off. The problem? his managers. Roeder, Souness and Allardyce. Look at what they spent and the money that was wasted.

 

I'm no apologist for MA, but from a business perspective and the long term vision for the club I can understand the reasoning behind what he is doing and while it may be painful short term, I think its up to supporters to bare with the new set up, certainly this season, and just get behind the team.

 

Of course I'd like to see more players coming in, Id like to see us competing for the best. But is it realistic? Not if we want a sensible wage structure. Step 1, push up the table, this season make sure we finish top half and maybe 8+. Getting into Europe would be a bonus. Then if so, look to improve the squad again.

 

Really, Id like to know exactly what your big issues are?

 

well written, so I'll try to reply.

 

I'm being quite honest here, I've never felt so unmotivated in Newcastle for years. I mean that. Even when the fuckpig was selling Bellamy etc it pissed me off, but I knew that he would eventually go, and so I would look forward again.

 

When you know the board have ambition, it gives you hope. I just don't feel that what they have done since they came, gives me much optimism, in the long run. I know Keegan is here and I think he will do a good job with the tools they give him, we'll be better off when he leaves than when he came, however much of his 3 years he sees out.

 

I've just got a nagging feeling that these 3 years will end up being underachieved, and we will look back on it as 3 years where we had a good manager that would have done better.

 

See mate, I remember managers like Gordon Lee, Arthur Cox, who both pissed off because they knew they weren't going to be allowed to take Newcastle to where they should be. Cox went to Derby and Lee resigned to take the job at Everton.

 

These 2 things have fuckin irked me for years, especially Lee.

 

You realise that this sort of thing happens everywhere, not just here, but its the 2 major times its happened to Newcastle in my time.

 

Keegan isn't going to bugger off to another club, but this job will be his last, and so I feel the way I do because I sene an air of something, not lethargy, but something that makes me feel that the whole thing is going to end up being frustrating and a huge opportunity lost. I only hope that I am wrong.

 

I can see the point of putting the club on an even financial keel again - I did say along with one or two others what Souness was doing to the club and that he should be sacked long before they gave him all that money - but Newcastle United are big enough to rebuild without being hindered and strapped while they do it.

 

Basically, as in most businesses, Ashley must have known that an input of fresh capital is needed to help the club get itself running again, it doesn't stop him getting rid of the high earners if he and the manager between them feel this is the way to go ie the manager is happy to sell them on footballing grounds too.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't expect him to bankroll the club like Abramovic on a smaller scale, just give it a kick start, and the fact that it hasn't happened just makes me wonder if he in fact views the club as a business to make money, or sell on, rather than launch a successful venture into the playing side of things.

 

Call me cynical, ref my earlier comments about ex managers, but these are things I've seen, you see the signs, and it doesn't make me feel very good about the club.

 

I also agree with the comments Alex has made in the other thread that I've just replied too.

Edited August 8, 2008 by LeazesMag

[Park Life 71]

"but Newcastle United are big enough to rebuild without being hindered and strapped while they do it." LM2008

 

I've always believed that.

[LeazesMag 0]

"but Newcastle United are big enough to rebuild without being hindered and strapped while they do it." LM2008

 

I've always believed that.

 

so you agree then ?

[Park Life 71]

"but Newcastle United are big enough to rebuild without being hindered and strapped while they do it." LM2008

 

I've always believed that.

 

so you agree then ?

 

Yes.

 

With KK this is a special window of opportunity. I sense everyone was ready for a big push.

[LeazesMag 0]

"but Newcastle United are big enough to rebuild without being hindered and strapped while they do it." LM2008

 

I've always believed that.

 

so you agree then ?

 

Yes.

 

With KK this is a special window of opportunity . I sense everyone was ready for a big push.

 

yes, that is EXACTLY what I think too.

[JawD 99]

I know where you are coming from, I think you maybe want or expect that while KK is here, they take advantage of that and push hard now and take their foot off once the club is lifted and perhaps in more of a position to stand on its own too feet. In some ways, we'd all love that but I think rightly or wrongly MA wants to get there without that initial push and that now that he has propped up the club so to speak he wants it to stand up itself. Its just a more frustrating way for the fans for it to happen. Its not to say it wont, just it may take longer. So much so that it could be once KK has been and gone.

 

Then again, we may stand up, wobble, and fall on our face, such are the guarantees in football (ie none).

[Fop 1]

I'm hoping we're not going to waste Keegan (again - because I think the club wasted him in the end the first time) this time.

 

Although looking objectively a lot of clubs seem to be struggling a bit with signings this summer, and some others are paying stupid money for players (like West Ham did last season for not much gain).

[ChezGiven 0]

Well as fop will tell you, i'm an evil duplicitous cunt who knows a good PR campaign when he sees one and Ashley's focus intitially was on this completely. This view is wholly supported by Mort's comments on his own role and where his focus lay in the first few months and in all honesty, his full tenure at the club.

 

What is so fitting about this thread is the notion of lost opportunity. I think Ashley mis-read and mis-judged more than just the financial side of things when he took the club over. His priority was to win over the geordie public as an outsider, he was a non-football, non-local trying to take over a loyal and very local club. He knew Shepherd was unpopular but what he failed to realise was that simply replacing him as a personailty and as a business leader would bring stable support. People have been hungry for success for too long and are not going to be won over by words in the new official magazine, they want proof that he can take the club forward. Its no surprise that the PR wizard has just broken our record for a defender the week this article is released.

 

That said, cant wait for my copy tomorrow.

[JawD 99]

Well as fop will tell you, i'm an evil duplicitous cunt who knows a good PR campaign when he sees one and Ashley's focus intitially was on this completely. This view is wholly supported by Mort's comments on his own role and where his focus lay in the first few months and in all honesty, his full tenure at the club.

 

What is so fitting about this thread is the notion of lost opportunity. I think Ashley mis-read and mis-judged more than just the financial side of things when he took the club over. His priority was to win over the geordie public as an outsider, he was a non-football, non-local trying to take over a loyal and very local club. He knew Shepherd was unpopular but what he failed to realise was that simply replacing him as a personailty and as a business leader would bring stable support. People have been hungry for success for too long and are not going to be won over by words in the new official magazine, they want proof that he can take the club forward. Its no surprise that the PR wizard has just broken our record for a defender the week this article is released.

 

That said, cant wait for my copy tomorrow.

 

Indeed.

 

Replacing Sam with KK

Paying off the Debt

Putting a footballing structure in place

Starting to get rid of alot (and we still have alot) of dead wood

 

These are all steps forward.

 

Now for the important one. How we do this season.

[Snake 0]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...nt-manager.html

 

The Mail have solved that mystery

[JawD 99]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...nt-manager.html

 

The Mail have solved that mystery

 

Aye nailed on facts eh

[Park Life 71]

Is it significant the Cox leaving or not?

[Fop 1]

Is it significant the Cox leaving or not?

Depends on the reason, of course we have no real idea what the reason is (could be internal issues, could be at his age he just wants to play golf and was just doing a favour for Keegan till he was settled and running).

[tinofbeans 91]

he has been with keegan, as his number 2 or thereabouts pretty much all through his career in management.

 

I wouldn't worry. we've still got the worlds best bookies runner (terry mac)....

[LeazesMag 0]

I know where you are coming from, I think you maybe want or expect that while KK is here, they take advantage of that and push hard now and take their foot off once the club is lifted and perhaps in more of a position to stand on its own too feet. In some ways, we'd all love that but I think rightly or wrongly MA wants to get there without that initial push and that now that he has propped up the club so to speak he wants it to stand up itself. Its just a more frustrating way for the fans for it to happen. Its not to say it wont, just it may take longer. So much so that it could be once KK has been and gone.

 

Then again, we may stand up, wobble, and fall on our face, such are the guarantees in football (ie none).

 

 

Sort of.....but I've seen nothing to suggest that in a few years time the gloves will come off. People are saying this will happen because its what they hope, well we ALL hope this will happen but maybe its how its always going to be ? Why not ? Why aren't they now running the club the way they intend to run it ? Which leads you to reason that if this is the case, then any other manager after Keegan who has real ability will also be prevented from realising their potential with the club.

 

The club is big enough to take it, if they aren't prepared to take risks and recognise they have a manager who has been there and is capable of doing it, then how will they recognise it the next time ?

 

Anyway, it all starts again next week, and while I'm looking forward to seeing the 2 Argies particularly, I've not got the same buzz that you usually have.

[LeazesMag 0]

Is it significant the Cox leaving or not?

Depends on the reason, of course we have no real idea what the reason is (could be internal issues, could be at his age he just wants to play golf and was just doing a favour for Keegan till he was settled and running).

 

I can't see Cox doing anything other than football. Unless there is reports of his health not being good, there's a reason for this alright.

Edited August 9, 2008 by LeazesMag

[Guest alex]

Is it significant the Cox leaving or not?

Depends on the reason, of course we have no real idea what the reason is (could be internal issues, could be at his age he just wants to play golf and was just doing a favour for Keegan till he was settled and running).

 

I can't see Cox doing anything other than football. Unless there is reports of his health not being good, there's a reason for this alright.

Think it's possible KK just wanted to bring in someone he trusted short-term with him being out the game a while etc. As you've alluded to in the past though - a bit of communication wouldn't go amiss. I'm all for keeping quiet about transfers / targets etc. until deals are concluded but this is different.

[JawD 99]

Until we see quotes from Cox we wont know why he left. Ill ask the question this afternoon and see what I get told (We have either Beardo or Beresford coming into our room for a while).

 

Thing is, we are investing in players, we are moving forward. Its just that in the old regime, we were used to buying big names and worrying about it later. While now we are being more cautious. I can see why people dont like this approach, but to me its make good business sense. Its a shame, but we cant get away from football being a business and thats how it needs to be ran. Perhaps having someone run it as a business rather than a supporter running it to prod his own ego will be better for us long term.

 

Just maybe.

[Park Life 71]

Until we see quotes from Cox we wont know why he left. Ill ask the question this afternoon and see what I get told (We have either Beardo or Beresford coming into our room for a while).

 

Thing is, we are investing in players, we are moving forward. Its just that in the old regime, we were used to buying big names and worrying about it later. While now we are being more cautious. I can see why people dont like this approach, but to me its make good business sense. Its a shame, but we cant get away from football being a business and thats how it needs to be ran. Perhaps having someone run it as a business rather than a supporter running it to prod his own ego will be better for us long term.

 

Just maybe.

 

Broadly agree. Irritating as it is, with KK in place, we have to stick it out. The real frustration for a lot of us is that we are only 2/3 good first team players short of having decent season.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Didn't Cox suffer greatly with his back? Pretty sure it was always going to be fairly short-term.

 

What is Fazackerley doing now he's left Citeh?

[@yourservice 67]

With Cox he never took any shite, he's probably in the shadows watching Keegan go to pot with Cashley ( ) taking the prov crap out of him and he has went before KK