Rafa Clueless Benitez?

[luckyluke 2]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

[Fop 1]

Spurs should be laughing all the way to the bank. £20m for Robbie Keane is daylight robbery.

 

I agree. If they got £20m for Keane then how much will they get for Berbatov?

 

I wonder if that's why things seem to have cooled down over him.

[Guest alex]

Liverpool should've just bought Berbatov instead.

[Fop 1]

Liverpool should've just bought Berbatov instead.

For a Billion?

[Park Life 71]

Liverpool should've just bought Berbatov instead.

 

Hence the thread title.

[Guest alex]

Liverpool should've just bought Berbatov instead.

For a Billion?

If there's any truth in the stories Spurs are prepared to sell to anyone but Man Utd then I doubt if he'd be much more than the £20m or so for Keane. Even if he was, say £25 - 30m he'd be a better buy in terms of the 'taking the next step' I've mentioned recently. Depends whether he'd go there though. He might just sulk and end up at Man Utd in January.

[Fop 1]

Liverpool should've just bought Berbatov instead.

For a Billion?

If there's any truth in the stories Spurs are prepared to sell to anyone but Man Utd then I doubt if he'd be much more than the £20m or so for Keane. Even if he was, say £25 - 30m he'd be a better buy in terms of the 'taking the next step' I've mentioned recently. Depends whether he'd go there though. He might just sulk and end up at Man Utd in January.

 

Aye, just that if you can get £20m for Keane, then you should be able to get a lot more for him (maybe not quite a Billion, but going from Keane I would say £40m was "reasonable" ).

[Redshadow 0]

Seems a lot of money to me for Keane.

 

Anyway, all of that's a side issue. The really important question is whether Keane's goal celebration is the worst in the Prem and possibly the entire world? A combination of crappy movements into one great big crappy & embarrassing whole....the sort of thing you do with your trousers round your ankles when you've had a few too many. And all yours for 20 mill

 

 

Can't argue with any of that.

[Redshadow 0]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

 

 

And I asked whether you felt the same about Rafa buying Torres last summer, not how he's turned out.

 

Crouch was a good player for us and did what he was brought in to do at the time, you can't ask more from a player than that. 4m profit makes it good business in my eyes, but of course, you're far superior to Rafa aren't you?

 

Where did I say that we were in the title race last season? My points were aimed at your superior attitude rather than what you said. It's laughable that you think you know better who is and isn't a good buy for another club. Keane ticks all the boxes for Benitez, I think he's overpriced myself, but then I don't know what role he'll play and if at the end of the season he helps us get nearer to our goal then he will have been worth 20 million, just like Crouch was in his first season with us.

[Guest alex]

It's hardly a fair comparison anyway since Torres was a good player who was unproven in the PL. The same doesn't apply to Barry and Keane who've been plying their trade in the PL for years now.

[luckyluke 2]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

 

 

And I asked whether you felt the same about Rafa buying Torres last summer, not how he's turned out.

 

Crouch was a good player for us and did what he was brought in to do at the time, you can't ask more from a player than that. 4m profit makes it good business in my eyes, but of course, you're far superior to Rafa aren't you?

 

Where did I say that we were in the title race last season? My points were aimed at your superior attitude rather than what you said. It's laughable that you think you know better who is and isn't a good buy for another club. Keane ticks all the boxes for Benitez, I think he's overpriced myself, but then I don't know what role he'll play and if at the end of the season he helps us get nearer to our goal then he will have been worth 20 million, just like Crouch was in his first season with us.

 

 

I don't know where you've got this 'superior attitude' stuff from. All I did was express my opinion that Benitez won't win you the title, and gave the reasons why I thought this. What's more laughable is your righteous indignation that I've dared to criticise your supposedly all-knowing manager.

[Torres 0]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

It is not that you are less qualified than me, it's simply that you're not making any sense at all.

[Fop 1]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

It is not that you are less qualified than me, it's simply that you're not making any sense at all.

 

Yup, logic and the truth = no sense.

[Torres 0]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

 

 

It is not that you are less qualified than me, it's simply that you're not making any sense at all.

 

Yup, logic and the truth = no sense.

 

 

Except for the mere fact that what he says contains no logic whatsoever.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Torres

[Fop 1]

Just the truth then, eh?

Edited July 30, 2008 by Fop

[Redshadow 0]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

 

 

And I asked whether you felt the same about Rafa buying Torres last summer, not how he's turned out.

 

Crouch was a good player for us and did what he was brought in to do at the time, you can't ask more from a player than that. 4m profit makes it good business in my eyes, but of course, you're far superior to Rafa aren't you?

 

Where did I say that we were in the title race last season? My points were aimed at your superior attitude rather than what you said. It's laughable that you think you know better who is and isn't a good buy for another club. Keane ticks all the boxes for Benitez, I think he's overpriced myself, but then I don't know what role he'll play and if at the end of the season he helps us get nearer to our goal then he will have been worth 20 million, just like Crouch was in his first season with us.

 

 

I don't know where you've got this 'superior attitude' stuff from. All I did was express my opinion that Benitez won't win you the title, and gave the reasons why I thought this. What's more laughable is your righteous indignation that I've dared to criticise your supposedly all-knowing manager.

 

Try reading back through your posts.

 

Your reasoning was flawed, that was the problem. Benitez buys players to fit in to his team, not neccesarily star players, and I have to say he's upped the quality of the TEAM every season he's been here. Your question mark and the word please after Crouch's name shows how very little you know about the subject you're trying to hold forth on.

 

My righteous indignation, as you call it, has far less to do with Benitez's knowledge and more to do with your very obvious lack of it.

[Ayatollah Hermione 14046]

He can buy players to fit his side all he likes but the fact is, they're not good enough to win you the league. It tickles me when Liverpool spend so much, only to see Arsenal romping to third with a team comprised of young players who cost a tenner and a steak bake. But, every new year is "the season for them", despite the team being stocked with more mediocrity (Voronin, Degen; I understand they cost nothing but the point still stands) and really not enough real quality to create a squad capable of winning the league.

 

And I've heard that they're looking to sell Benayoun; heard anything about that? Because if so, I'd love to see him here because he's a quality little player with some real creative spark. I'd probably rate him better than Pennant fwiw.

[luckyluke 2]

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

 

 

And I asked whether you felt the same about Rafa buying Torres last summer, not how he's turned out.

 

Crouch was a good player for us and did what he was brought in to do at the time, you can't ask more from a player than that. 4m profit makes it good business in my eyes, but of course, you're far superior to Rafa aren't you?

 

Where did I say that we were in the title race last season? My points were aimed at your superior attitude rather than what you said. It's laughable that you think you know better who is and isn't a good buy for another club. Keane ticks all the boxes for Benitez, I think he's overpriced myself, but then I don't know what role he'll play and if at the end of the season he helps us get nearer to our goal then he will have been worth 20 million, just like Crouch was in his first season with us.

 

 

I don't know where you've got this 'superior attitude' stuff from. All I did was express my opinion that Benitez won't win you the title, and gave the reasons why I thought this. What's more laughable is your righteous indignation that I've dared to criticise your supposedly all-knowing manager.

 

Try reading back through your posts.

 

Your reasoning was flawed, that was the problem. Benitez buys players to fit in to his team, not neccesarily star players, and I have to say he's upped the quality of the TEAM every season he's been here. Your question mark and the word please after Crouch's name shows how very little you know about the subject you're trying to hold forth on.

 

My righteous indignation, as you call it, has far less to do with Benitez's knowledge and more to do with your very obvious lack of it.

 

Crouch has done quite well at Liverpool. But he's not the kind of player who will help you challenge the top two, or even Arsenal. I thought that was obvious. He may well have upped the quality of the team, but the teams ahead of you upped the quality of theirs even more.

 

You can keep the condescending comments coming btw but it won't get you any closer to a title that you're never going to win.

[Redshadow 0]

He can buy players to fit his side all he likes but the fact is, they're not good enough to win you the league. It tickles me when Liverpool spend so much, only to see Arsenal romping to third with a team comprised of young players who cost a tenner and a steak bake. But, every new year is "the season for them", despite the team being stocked with more mediocrity (Voronin, Degen; I understand they cost nothing but the point still stands) and really not enough real quality to create a squad capable of winning the league.

 

And I've heard that they're looking to sell Benayoun; heard anything about that? Because if so, I'd love to see him here because he's a quality little player with some real creative spark. I'd probably rate him better than Pennant fwiw.

 

Arsenal have been at it a lot longer, Wengers been there for 11 years now and so the younger players he was buying years ago should be coming through season on season. Benitez has brought in 25 young players in the last 4 years for both the academy and the reserves. Those and the natural catchment of local players should see us bring a few through over the next couple of seasons.

Out of his 4 seasons Benitez has finished above Wenger twice so Arsenal have been far from romping in to 3rd, except for last season which I'd describe more as them rapidly dropping to 3rd myself. Neither can Wenger cut it in Europe. That's not to say I think Wenger isn't a great manager, of course he is.

 

Why mention squad players and fourth choice strikers? There's plenty of quality in the squad to make up a great 1st team but you're right in as much as in a few positions the players coming in behind aren't good enough quality, but you can only do what your budget says you can and each season has seen an upgrade.

 

As far as Yossi goes, he seems confident that he's staying, but Rafa wants Barry and will have to sell to buy which could see Yossi, Pennant and Voronin going, failing someone coming in for Xabi Alonso. I'd like to see both Yossi and Pennant staying but I'd also rather have kept Luis Garcia than buy Yossi in the first place.

 

I am not one of those who say this is our season. If the top two teams have 25m+ players all over the place it's bound to be hard to compete but I'd be more than happy with a real challenge and to carry on winning other trophies. 2 CL finals and 1 semi in four years isn't bad to be going on with.

[Redshadow 0]

:

As I've said previously in this (or another thread) Keane and Barry are both good players but I'm not convinced either will take Liverpool to the 'next level' as it were. Both ovepriced as well.

 

That's partially why I believe Benitez won't win the title - Torres aside, he seems unable to sign players of the quality that Man Utd and Chelsea have. His desire to spend nearly £40m on two very good but not great premiership players reinforces this. It's a bit puzzling because I thought previously that he was trying to do it on the cheap, but apparently Liverpool are willing to splash the cash - just on the wrong players!

 

Liverpool will never win the title with Benitez.

 

 

Like you'd know!

 

Why am I any less qualified to comment than you? You haven't been seriously in the title race for years, Rafa can't or won't sign players that are good enough also has his rotation system that may save legs for end of season cup runs but is impossible to win the league with.

 

Bet you were saying the same this time last year when he bought Torres or the year before when he bought Crouch. Why do you think you're superior to Rafa and know better than him what players will fit in to his team?

 

He lost 4 games last season, two of which were against Manure, one of the top teams we have to beat to be in with a chance. Having watched his team building progress for the last 4 years I think he can do it, given the time.

 

I did say "Torres aside". And Crouch? Please.

 

You may have only lost four games, compared to "Manure's" (original!) five, but you drew 13 times, along with Blackburn the most in the premiership last season. To win the title you need to take the points from the smaller teams, and not just the big three. You didn't, and finished 11 points behind Man Utd, and 7 points behind Arsenal in third. Never in the race.

 

 

And I asked whether you felt the same about Rafa buying Torres last summer, not how he's turned out.

 

Crouch was a good player for us and did what he was brought in to do at the time, you can't ask more from a player than that. 4m profit makes it good business in my eyes, but of course, you're far superior to Rafa aren't you?

 

Where did I say that we were in the title race last season? My points were aimed at your superior attitude rather than what you said. It's laughable that you think you know better who is and isn't a good buy for another club. Keane ticks all the boxes for Benitez, I think he's overpriced myself, but then I don't know what role he'll play and if at the end of the season he helps us get nearer to our goal then he will have been worth 20 million, just like Crouch was in his first season with us.

 

 

I don't know where you've got this 'superior attitude' stuff from. All I did was express my opinion that Benitez won't win you the title, and gave the reasons why I thought this. What's more laughable is your righteous indignation that I've dared to criticise your supposedly all-knowing manager.

 

Try reading back through your posts.

 

Your reasoning was flawed, that was the problem. Benitez buys players to fit in to his team, not neccesarily star players, and I have to say he's upped the quality of the TEAM every season he's been here. Your question mark and the word please after Crouch's name shows how very little you know about the subject you're trying to hold forth on.

 

My righteous indignation, as you call it, has far less to do with Benitez's knowledge and more to do with your very obvious lack of it.

 

Crouch has done quite well at Liverpool. But he's not the kind of player who will help you challenge the top two, or even Arsenal. I thought that was obvious. He may well have upped the quality of the team, but the teams ahead of you upped the quality of theirs even more.

 

You can keep the condescending comments coming btw but it won't get you any closer to a title that you're never going to win.

 

So speaks the voice of ignorance. As I've stated in another post, I'd be happy with a real challenge, I wouldn't ever be so pompous as to say another team will never win it. Manure went 26 years without a title win, I didn't even think they'd never win it.

 

There you go showing your lack of knowledge about your subject yet again. In Crouchs first season we gained 82 points, our biggest points haul in over 20 years and 1 behind Manure,much of that was down to Crouchs presence in the team and a new GK. Arsenal finished 15 points behind us that season, so no it's not obvious.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Redshadow

[Guest alex]

Why'd Benitez sell him then?

[Redshadow 0]

Why'd Benitez sell him then?

 

He always wanted to play the same system he played at Valencia but never had the right players. Crouch was never going to fit in to the 4-2-3-1 although he'd still liked to have kept him. Crouch wouldn't sign a new contract and Rafa needed to raise money.

[Guest alex]

Why'd Benitez sell him then?

 

He always wanted to play the same system he played at Valencia but never had the right players. Crouch was never going to fit in to the 4-2-3-1 although he'd still liked to have kept him. Crouch wouldn't sign a new contract and Rafa needed to raise money.

It was tongue-in-cheek but it suggests he doesn't fit in with Benitez's vision of what is the sort of player needed to challenge for the league. And he'd have signed a new contract if he thought he wasn't going to spend another season warming the bench for you lot, I'd have thought.

Edited July 30, 2008 by alex

[Redshadow 0]

Why'd Benitez sell him then?

 

He always wanted to play the same system he played at Valencia but never had the right players. Crouch was never going to fit in to the 4-2-3-1 although he'd still liked to have kept him. Crouch wouldn't sign a new contract and Rafa needed to raise money.

It was tongue-in-cheek but it suggests he doesn't fit in with Benitez's vision of what is the sort of player needed to challenge for the league. And he'd have signed a new contract if he thought he wasn't going to spend another season warming the bench for you lot, I'd have thought.

 

I'd agree to an extent but Benitez likes to have lots of options and to change the system in the middle of a match if it's not working. Crouch fell in to the option category. Nobody gets guarantees not to warm the bench, even before they sign they are put straight on his rotation policy.

[luckyluke 2]

What the hell is your problem?

 

That Stiva guy posted pretty much what I said and you responded quite reasonably, including this:

 

"I am not one of those who say this is our season. If the top two teams have 25m+ players all over the place it's bound to be hard to compete but I'd be more than happy with a real challenge and to carry on winning other trophies. 2 CL finals and 1 semi in four years isn't bad to be going on with."

 

I said as much in the same post you started to get all arsey with me! You agree with me, you mental!