Getting tough on knife crime

[Tooj 17]

I dont think the answer to the problem is giving these violent youths a gun and sending them to iraq with a blank cheque to shoot or rape anything that moves.

 

 

Who said owt about a gun, I was thinking more along the lines of minefield clearance, blindfolded.

In magnetic diving boots.

On acid.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

I dont think the answer to the problem is giving these violent youths a gun and sending them to iraq with a blank cheque to shoot or rape anything that moves.

 

 

Who said owt about a gun, I was thinking more along the lines of minefield clearance, blindfolded.

In magnetic diving boots.

On acid.

 

And sniffing glue with boxing gloves on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'll get my coat

[The Fish 11098]

Chatting to a girl I know who's teaching in Thailand. We think we've got problems with kids bringing knives into schools? She's concerned because kids bring snakes into class and one threw a fucking cobra* at another... A FUCKING SNAKE!

 

 

 

 

 

 

* it may or may not have been a cobra, her "Elapidae" knowledge is, by her own admission, not up to much.

[Fop 1]

Another (ill-considered) future ban?

 

 

 

 

The point of knives

 

 

By Alan Connor

BBC News

 

Most fatal stabbings involve a weapon that is easy to obtain and sharp with it - a kitchen knife. Would stopping the sale of long blades with sharp points help save lives?

 

What would reduce the number of fatal stabbings? England and Wales' Chief Inspector of Probation Andrew Bridges has warned against "spectacular innovations" and wants the debate to focus on "mundane truths".

Graph of homicides by sharp instrument

 

One idea, first proposed in 2005, is a response to a grisly mundane truth expressed by Met chief Ian Blair this week - that "the most common knife involved in these deaths is a knife from a kitchen".

 

The proposal came from three emergency medicine specialists, and it's a simple one: getting rid of the points on the ends of longer kitchen knives.

 

Drs Emma Hern, Will Glazebrook and Mike Beckett wrote an editorial in the British Medical Journal, suggesting that since "many assaults are impulsive", government action could "drastically reduce the availability" of a "potentially lethal weapon".

 

So what would the effect have been if, in 2003, the government had persuaded knife manufacturers to offer a greater range of styles, with the pointed-end, long-blade design no longer the default?

 

Dr Beckett puts it simply: if long pointed knives had become less available, we would have seen fewer deaths from knife injuries.

 

Of course, there would have been other effects. Other readers of the BMJ were quick to list dishes which need a pointed knife during preparation: butterflying a leg of lamb, carving a forerib of beef, and so on.

 

The self-styled maverick American chef Anthony Bourdain went further, saying that for chefs, knives "are extensions of our arms, and in many ways, our personalities", adding "where there is no risk, there is no pleasure".

 

Tools of trade

 

However, the idea of pointed knives disappearing completely is not a plausible one - still less the image of policemen requiring every law-abiding home cook to hand over their beloved kitchenware.

 

AWT

For everyday cooking, a square-end or blunt-ended knife is OK

Anthony Worrall Thompson

 

In their original article, the doctors argue that most preparation can be done using a combination of a "blunt, round nose" knife and another which, although sharp, is also short enough (under 5cm) to render it less likely to be lethal if used as a weapon.

 

TV chef Anthony Worrall Thompson agrees, observing that in the Far East, pointed knives are used very rarely and that "for everyday cooking, a square-end or blunt-ended knife is OK".

 

However, objections to the doctors' proposal have not just been culinary.

 

A common response has been to point out that inflicting a knife injury is already illegal, and that government effort would be better expended on enforcing existing laws.

 

This is unsurprising, since the initial article explicitly called for "banning the sale of long pointed knives" - and a call for a ban rarely does more than add another item to the "call to ban..." list.

 

Roger Gale

I would suggest the much more basic but practical response is capital punishment

Conservative MP Roger Gale

 

Calls for bans are also rarely watertight solutions. So while Mothers Against Knives are pro-ban, they are in the minority. West Yorkshire police chief Tom McGhie says it would be "probably impractical and unenforceable in practice".

 

And MP Roger Gale says that if long pointed knives were banned, "then a panoply of carpenters' and plumbers' 'weapons', such as hammers and screwdrivers, will have to be taken out of circulation".

 

Reduce opportunity

 

Dr Beckett denies that this analogy holds, and says that long pointed knives will not always be replaced by similarly fatal weapons. He cites an unintended effect of the switch from coal gas to non-toxic North Sea gas: fewer suicides.

 

KNIFE LAW

Law prohibits possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority

Except folding pocket knife with blade no more than three inches

Individual has to demonstrate good reason for possession in public place eg sporting purposes, part of a profession

 

"People said, 'oh, if you want to commit suicide, you will find a way.' But it did reduce the rate."

 

Another unintended reduction in suicide rates has been associated with the introduction of catalytic converters to car. And another drop in suicides came, this time intentional, following the reduction in the quantities in which paracetemol can be bought.

 

Today, Dr Beckett talks about a change in kitchen culture rather than solely about a ban - and that may be the more intriguing possibility.

 

It remains a grim picture - the doctors would prefer to deal with non-fatal attacks from cleavers or short pointed knives rather than fatal stabbings.

 

It's nowhere near a complete solution to the complex problem of knife crime - but neither is it meant to be. Why people carry knives and how they are prosecuted remain different questions.

 

'THE IDEAL WEAPON'

A short thin-bladed knife, with a stiff blade, about 7cm in length - many lock knives and small sheath knives fall into this group. Larger knives (ornamental daggers, militaria) require far greater force

Stab Wound Dynamics, Journal Forensic Science Society

 

Rather, says Dr Beckett, it's a possibility for design to help save lives.

 

"Car manufacturers constantly refine their product to make them less likely to cause harm. Razor blades have been redesigned so as not to slit your throat.

 

"Kitchen knives could be redesigned so that they retain their cooking function, but are not lethal. But as it stands, you can go into a supermarket and buy for £10 something that's a murder weapon - no questions asked."

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

U-turn Gordon has already decided the hospital thing won't happen.

Fuel duty u-turn today, hopefully road tax will be next.