Charities

[Fop 1]

The truly strange thing though is that 90% of the users of say this forum will be able to do everything they do on their PC without using any MS products and likely without having to pay for any software and yet they don't know it and perhaps never will. That's not geek that's just not plain ignorant.

I think far more than 10% of them know it, they just can't be bothered. I'm one of them.

 

Same here. Worried about hassle.

Aye I know what you mean, but you can download and burn a liveCD and mess around without having to install anything at all, which is a good way to test the water (although if you're on Mac hardware maybe not, it's possible but probably more hassle than it's worth).

 

Won't help the fight against malaria much though.

[Park Life 71]

The truly strange thing though is that 90% of the users of say this forum will be able to do everything they do on their PC without using any MS products and likely without having to pay for any software and yet they don't know it and perhaps never will. That's not geek that's just not plain ignorant.

I think far more than 10% of them know it, they just can't be bothered. I'm one of them.

 

Same here. Worried about hassle.

Aye I know what you mean, but you can download and burn a liveCD and mess around without having to install anything at all, which is a good way to test the water (although if you're on Mac hardware maybe not, it's possible but probably more hassle than it's worth).

 

Won't help the fight against malaria much though.

 

Could try it on the laptop. So just boot from disk you say?

[Fop 1]

The truly strange thing though is that 90% of the users of say this forum will be able to do everything they do on their PC without using any MS products and likely without having to pay for any software and yet they don't know it and perhaps never will. That's not geek that's just not plain ignorant.

I think far more than 10% of them know it, they just can't be bothered. I'm one of them.

Aye there's that too. Although short of gaming and some soundcards it's not that hard now, about as easy as installing windows XP anyway (baring wireless in some cases).

 

Which is sad as the world would greatly benefit from some genuine

for MS to push things along.

 

I've started using the alternative free version of Word recently. But some things don't recognise the docs.

Yeah which largely goes back to MS trying to control file formats. Although they have moved away from this recently back towards more open formats ([cynic]probably as much because they were putting a lot of effort into and still losing the race to stay ahead[/cynic]).

 

 

Could try it on the laptop. So just boot from disk you say?

Yeah so long it can or can be set to boot from CD, it'll be a little slow running like that and maybe not completely fully featured (unfortunately the 2008 full version isn't out yet), you can dual boot install but I wouldn't bother until you're pretty sure you want to genuinely have a good mess around (and that's with XP, Vista really doesn't like sharing - possibly purposely).

 

And if that one is not for you, there's many other flavours.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Fop

[Rob W 0]

"Microsoft are built upon the most "unethical" (i.e. most ruthless, illegal, destructive, and self-centred) business model around."

 

compared to say Dassault or Gazprom or FN or Oerlikon or BAT or Union Carbide at Bophal???? I think not

Sounds like you just object to paying for your software to me TBH

 

That's the thing, broadly I don't have too (not that I begrudge MS their money, anyway, well up until WinME anyway and then again with Vista).

 

 

The irony is that I imagine you don't have to either, you're just far too ignorant to know it.

 

 

Doubtful that last statement

 

I've been involved in computing since 1967 Dear Boy and have had a personal computer since the late 70's

[Rob W 0]

The truly strange thing though is that 90% of the users of say this forum will be able to do everything they do on their PC without using any MS products and likely without having to pay for any software and yet they don't know it and perhaps never will. That's not geek that's just not plain ignorant.

I think far more than 10% of them know it, they just can't be bothered. I'm one of them.

 

Same here. Worried about hassle.

 

 

same with cars - I understand the Laws of Thermodynamics but I'm buggered if I'm going to go on a welding course to build my own Ford Focus

[Fop 1]

The truly strange thing though is that 90% of the users of say this forum will be able to do everything they do on their PC without using any MS products and likely without having to pay for any software and yet they don't know it and perhaps never will. That's not geek that's just not plain ignorant.

I think far more than 10% of them know it, they just can't be bothered. I'm one of them.

 

Same here. Worried about hassle.

 

 

same with cars - I understand the Laws of Thermodynamics but I'm buggered if I'm going to go on a welding course to build my own Ford Focus

 

Nothing like the same, more like utterly refusing to drive anything BUT a Ford Focus.

 

Even if there's something out there cheaper and better for what you want than a Ford Focus out there.

 

Admittedly Linux (and other similar OS's) were a bit technical a few years ago, but these days most are pretty straight forward, especially ones that are specifically newbie friendly like K/Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS (which is built around the premise of just using a GUI [like windows] and not needing to use the CLI at all).

[Fop 1]

"Microsoft are built upon the most "unethical" (i.e. most ruthless, illegal, destructive, and self-centred) business model around."

 

compared to say Dassault or Gazprom or FN or Oerlikon or BAT or Union Carbide at Bophal???? I think not

Sounds like you just object to paying for your software to me TBH

 

That's the thing, broadly I don't have too (not that I begrudge MS their money, anyway, well up until WinME anyway and then again with Vista).

 

 

The irony is that I imagine you don't have to either, you're just far too ignorant to know it.

 

 

Doubtful that last statement

 

I've been involved in computing since 1967 Dear Boy and have had a personal computer since the late 70's

 

Well frankly you're just daft then I guess.

 

Like I said check out this (or another flavour) burn it to a liveCD, run it off a liveCD (it's still very hard to get Win98 to do that on a modern system - compare that to Knoppix) and tell me you "need" Microsoft to do most of the things most people do on a PC?

 

 

 

 

You can even make it look like Windows XP if that helps.

 

 

All you got to do is remember there is a world outside of what Mr Gates wants to sell you.

[Park Life 71]

"Microsoft are built upon the most "unethical" (i.e. most ruthless, illegal, destructive, and self-centred) business model around."

 

compared to say Dassault or Gazprom or FN or Oerlikon or BAT or Union Carbide at Bophal???? I think not

Sounds like you just object to paying for your software to me TBH

 

That's the thing, broadly I don't have too (not that I begrudge MS their money, anyway, well up until WinME anyway and then again with Vista).

 

 

The irony is that I imagine you don't have to either, you're just far too ignorant to know it.

 

 

Doubtful that last statement

 

I've been involved in computing since 1967 Dear Boy and have had a personal computer since the late 70's

 

Well frankly you're just daft then I guess.

 

Like I said check out this (or another flavour) burn it to a liveCD, run it off a liveCD (it's still very hard to get Win98 to do that on a modern system - compare that to Knoppix) and tell me you "need" Microsoft to do most of the things most people do on a PC?

 

 

 

 

You can even make it look like Windows XP if that helps.

 

 

All you got to do is remember there is a world outside of what Mr Gates wants to sell you.

 

Will one of these run FM faster or at all and can I dual-boot?

[Guest alex]

You don't have to be a nerd to use Linux, but it helps

[Fop 1]

Will one of these run FM faster or at all and can I dual-boot?

 

Yeah there's the only real issue, gaming (which is again down to the windows monopoly issue really, otherwise you'd get more umph for your hardware, but you'll only really see that on games that are directly ported for linux (Quake, Eve, etc.) or that run very well under WINE.

 

WINE is getting pretty good however, and better still the specialist companies that tweak it (cedega or codeweavers), and there's some offical support for Steam games now I think.

 

So it's getting a lot, lot better, but is still a long way off being able to rival windows in gaming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't have to be a nerd or anything more than basically computer literate to use Linux these days.

 

FYP.

[Park Life 71]

windows for gaming

linux for everything else

 

the only difference being for the slightly non techy type people, a problem in windows generally is alot easier to sort out than in linux, pending on distro and the type of problem obsv

 

(and yes i know you can run games in linux it's just alot more hassle than its worth)

 

i'm still stuck in the darkages using slackware compiling/installing everything from source!

 

"You don't have to be a nerd to use Linux, but it helps"

harsh but fair

 

 

Once Vista is installed what can I cut down or remove?

[Rob W 0]

You don't have to be a nerd to use Linux, but it helps

 

 

Exactly

 

Everyone I know who bangs on about Linux systems tells you its easier than MS but when they get in to it it looks more like MSDOS or UNIX than Windows

[Fop 1]

Once Vista is installed what can I cut down or remove?

http://www.vlite.net/download.html can try using something like that to cut out the bloat, tbh i put vista on a dualboot to try force myself into it and it was just dire, after a few days i got rid of the thing.. between all the small annoyances ontop of the nvidia drivers not liking my 32"hdtv i use as a monitor (overscan, wrong refresh rate, couldnt use normal resolution) i got rid of it fairly swiftly

 

Yeah vlite is the only one I know for vista too.

 

But I'm far from sure anything will really help with vista apart from an absolute top spec PC, I was sorting out a pretty high spec laptop with vista on last week, and it would have flew with Win XP on but it nearly got thrown out of the window a few times due to its incessant slowness. Stuck a linux liveCD in just to see, and it flew with that (detected and got wireless up straight away too), the irony was that everything that that laptop was/is needed for was perfectly suited to linux and didn't need any windows OS at all.

 

In all the like for like test vista basically only equals and then pulls away from XP once you approach and go past XP's hardware limits (or with purely artificial limits like directX 10).

[Fop 1]

You don't have to be a nerd to use Linux, but it helps

 

 

Exactly

 

Everyone I know who bangs on about Linux systems tells you its easier than MS but when they get in to it it looks more like MSDOS or UNIX than Windows

 

 

Honestly you're just displaying your complete ignorance on this matter more and more (also you do realise what window "looks" like if you "get into it" don't you?).

Are you sure you're not post this from a Commodore Pet?

 

 

 

 

A few years ago probably had a point. These days not really if you pick one of the flavours that concentrate on the desktop and the user.

 

 

Look at those screen shots above, is that "MSDOS" or "UNIX"? Hardly.

You can make KDE look like vista if you want (only the effects are directly hardware supported in linux rather than software as in vista - making it much, much more efficient and able to run well on much lesser spec PCs).

 

 

Like I said distros like PCLinuxOS are aiming at a full GUI compliance, with no need to go to the CLI unless you want to (the are mostly there IMO), they have a rolling update (no need to reinstall), they have a very simple update manager.

 

But people like you will never even try it (even when all you have to do is download it, burn it onto a CD, still said CD in your PC and set it to boot from it and the whole OS runs from the CD without needing to install anything at all), preferring to swallow the (admittedly very good) marketing and accept that "'ere be dragons" anywhere else.

[Happy Face 29]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

[Fop 1]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

[Happy Face 29]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

[Fop 1]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

You don't get much, in fairness.

 

Out of interest do you actually think Gates or even Microsoft thought up "windows", or are you taking the piss?

[Guest alex]

Didn't Xerox invent the concept of windows but only used it on their internal IT systems? Which is why Apple had little joy when they took Microsoft to court, i.e. Apple pinched the idea too. So a lecturer told me anyway. What a fucking nerd he was btw.

[Park Life 71]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

 

Or a portal to the moon?

[Park Life 71]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

You don't get much, in fairness.

 

Out of interest do you actually think Gates or even Microsoft thought up "windows", or are you taking the piss?

 

 

I was told it was stolen from Ahpple. I miss my Mac classic with the little disks and my old writing shed.

[Happy Face 29]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

You don't get much, in fairness.

 

Out of interest do you actually think Gates or even Microsoft thought up "windows", or are you taking the piss?

 

Yeah, my poindextrousness does leave a lot to be desired.

 

I think they were the first to roll it out en masse.

 

Whether or not they came up with it is moot. Alexander Graham Bell didn't conceive the idea of the telephone, he was just the first to the patent office on an idea that works.

[Fop 1]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

You don't get much, in fairness.

 

Out of interest do you actually think Gates or even Microsoft thought up "windows", or are you taking the piss?

 

Yeah, my poindextrousness does leave a lot to be desired.

 

I think they were the first to roll it out en masse.

 

Whether or not they came up with it is moot. Alexander Graham Bell didn't conceive the idea of the telephone, he was just the first to the patent office on an idea that works.

 

Nah, just your intelligence.

 

 

 

So you were being serious.

 

You've pretty much undermined whatever "point" you were trying to make then..... what was it again?

That open-source linux development shouldn't "follow" windows and ideas that Bill Gates "thought up" [stole] 20 years ago?

 

 

Out of interest do you know how many genuinely original ideas Gates or even Microsoft have "thought up"?

 

Take your beautiful flashy boundary forging vista aero desktop for example.... then nicked that from Linux.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Fop

[Happy Face 29]

Have to say it looks shit. Like someone tried to recreate windows using paint.

Pretty sure that was what was used to create Redmond in the first place.

 

I don't get that, but if companies want their product to usurp microsofts, shouldn't they come at it in an original way rather than just rehashing the concept Gates' brigade thought up 20 years ago?

 

Rather than a desktop with windows why not try to introduce a cabinet with drawers (that rings a bell, has it already been done?) or a walk in closet with shelves.

 

You don't get much, in fairness.

 

Out of interest do you actually think Gates or even Microsoft thought up "windows", or are you taking the piss?

 

Yeah, my poindextrousness does leave a lot to be desired.

 

I think they were the first to roll it out en masse.

 

Whether or not they came up with it is moot. Alexander Graham Bell didn't conceive the idea of the telephone, he was just the first to the patent office on an idea that works.

 

Nah, just your intelligence.

 

 

 

So you were being serious.

 

You've pretty much undermined whatever "point" you were trying to make then..... what was it again?

That open-source linux development shouldn't "follow" windows and ideas that Bill Gates "thought up" [stole] 20 years ago?

 

 

Out of interest do you know how many genuinely original ideas Gates or even Microsoft have "thought up"?

 

Take your beautiful flashy boundary forging vista aero desktop for example.... then nicked that from Linux.

 

You're right. I apologise for my stupidity. I'll get Linux downloaded when I get in.

[Fop 1]

You're right. I apologise for my stupidity. I'll get Linux downloaded when I get in.

 

TBH I wouldn't.