Business told they can discriminate in favour of female and ethnic minority job candidates

[manc-mag 1]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

I do like it when I shut you up, and make you have to grope around for a silly insult instead.

 

 

 

But with my limited knowledge of politics I'm fairly sure they'll try to go ahead despite it being integral to the treaty that all states ratify it - whether they'll succeed or not I don't know, although there's at least one other country looking like dropping another spanner in the EU Constitution.

 

Limited is really stretching it. I`m sure if Ireland votes no again they`ll be left behind whether they like it or not. Should that happen they`ll have deserved to be left out (voting for a group of ex terrorists and a few peados in frocks) ... Europe has to remain and become more competitive if it is to be a real player on the world stage and simply can`t pander to a tiny majority who don`t even know what they voted for.

 

There`s too much at stake. Time to move on.

 

I don't think they'll be given another chance, I think some fudge will be worked.

 

 

Also out of interest how can you crusade for an even more non-democratic EU when you say you live in a non-EU country for purposes of tax avoidance? Although again that does fit in with the new EU rather well, it's about power and making money, NOT democracy.

 

The EU has never been particularly concerned with democracy tbf. It was set up very simply to avoid war in Europe and it's method of going about this was by focussing on creating an economic union. It's always been about the economic benefit of the Member States.

[Meenzer 15873]

Although I do wonder if maybe in 500 years time there won't be some interesting history textbooks writing about a period that makes the break up of Yugoslavia seem like a playground spat.

Nah, you only have to spend a bit of time in the Balkans to realise that they're way past anything we could ever manage in terms of festering regional/racial/religion-based divides.

 

Of course, once Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia and Macedonia are all safely incorporated into the EU, alongside Turkey... anything could happen.

[Torres 0]

Democracy is simple. Majority rule. The rest of Europe votes in favour (according to their constitutions) and the Irish vote against ... it is clear who loses.

 

I don`t think you understand the word democracy ... perhaps you`re confusing it with some other word.

 

And according to the current EU 'constitution' all member states have to be in favour, or is an organisation who ignore their own rules democratic in your opinion?

 

 

 

Yes it would be. Now I think the progressive states should move ahead and leave the backward ones behind, for the good of Europe. The Irish vote should be respected but they in turn should respect the wishes of progressive states and take a back seat.

 

Poor old fop knows as little about politics as he does about football.

 

I do like it when I shut you up, and make you have to grope around for a silly insult instead.

 

 

 

But with my limited knowledge of politics I'm fairly sure they'll try to go ahead despite it being integral to the treaty that all states ratify it - whether they'll succeed or not I don't know, although there's at least one other country looking like dropping another spanner in the EU Constitution.

 

Limited is really stretching it. I`m sure if Ireland votes no again they`ll be left behind whether they like it or not. Should that happen they`ll have deserved to be left out (voting for a group of ex terrorists and a few peados in frocks) ... Europe has to remain and become more competitive if it is to be a real player on the world stage and simply can`t pander to a tiny majority who don`t even know what they voted for.

 

There`s too much at stake. Time to move on.

 

I don't think they'll be given another chance, I think some fudge will be worked.

 

 

Also out of interest how can you crusade for an even more non-democratic EU when you say you live in a non-EU country for purposes of tax avoidance? Although again that does fit in with the new EU rather well, it's about power and making money, NOT democracy.

 

 

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent. That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct? Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Best,

 

Torres.

[Meenzer 15873]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

[Torres 0]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

[Guest alex]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

[Meenzer 15873]

Christ almighty.

[Fop 1]

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent

.

 

Er.... no the idea was to streamline decision making (making it less democratic and less representative) and to try and give the EU a bigger and more combined voice in the world (politically, not economically we do fine as is with that).

 

 

That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct?

No I think every country should get a chance to vote on it, let every EU citizen speak for themselves, not a couple of 100 people (many who are not elected)......... but that will NEVER happen. Again as I said your idea of "democracy" puts you in exalted company.

 

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

They were the only political party to not support it, and yet still the Irish voted no - that is democracy I'm afraid. As much as certain people don't like it.

 

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Maybe if you live in the EU and contributed to it you'd have more of a clue, although I suspect probably not to be fair, and besides that would be more of this democratic nonsense you despise.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Fop

[ewerk 31631]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

[Fop 1]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

I'd be amazed if he were right about anything at this point.

[Torres 0]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

 

Go on then, enlighten me, what credible group were behind this monumental flop?

[Torres 0]

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent

.

 

Er.... no the idea was to streamline decision making (making it less democratic and less representative) and to try and give the EU a bigger and more combined voice in the world (politically, not economically we do fine as is with that).

 

 

That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct?

No I think every country should get a chance to vote on it, let every EU citizen speak for themselves, not a couple of 100 people (many who are not elected)......... but that will NEVER happen. Again as I said your idea of "democracy" puts you in exalted company.

 

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

They were the only political party to not support it, and yet still the Irish voted no - that is democracy I'm afraid. As much as certain people don't like it.

 

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Maybe if you live in the EU and contributed to it you'd have more of a clue, although I suspect probably not to be fair, and besides that would be more of this democratic nonsense you despise.

 

 

Like I`m gonna argue with somebody who by his own admittance has 'limited political knowledge'. :icon_lol:

[Fop 1]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

 

Go on then, enlighten me, what credible group were behind this monumental flop?

Well pretty much the entire Irish political establishment and the EU... and the Irish still voted no, so I guess they were behind the "monumental flop"/exercising of democracy depending on how you look at it.

 

And they'd even been told how they were supposed to vote as well..... disgusting eh?

[Fop 1]

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent

.

 

Er.... no the idea was to streamline decision making (making it less democratic and less representative) and to try and give the EU a bigger and more combined voice in the world (politically, not economically we do fine as is with that).

 

 

That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct?

No I think every country should get a chance to vote on it, let every EU citizen speak for themselves, not a couple of 100 people (many who are not elected)......... but that will NEVER happen. Again as I said your idea of "democracy" puts you in exalted company.

 

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

 

They were the only political party to not support it, and yet still the Irish voted no - that is democracy I'm afraid. As much as certain people don't like it.

 

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Maybe if you live in the EU and contributed to it you'd have more of a clue, although I suspect probably not to be fair, and besides that would be more of this democratic nonsense you despise.

 

 

Like I`m gonna argue with somebody who by his own admittance has 'limited political knowledge'.

 

 

Like you can argue/debate/reason or tie your own shoelaces at all.

 

 

(and again it is rather funny when you turn tail and run )

Edited June 27, 2008 by Fop

[ewerk 31631]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

 

Go on then, enlighten me, what credible group were behind this monumental flop?

 

Libertas were the main group behind it in the no-camp but it the main forces behind the result were in fact the government's ballsed campaign and general scare-mongering that this would hit Ireland economically.

[Torres 0]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

 

Go on then, enlighten me, what credible group were behind this monumental flop?

 

Libertas were the main group behind it in the no-camp but it the main forces behind the result were in fact the government's ballsed campaign and general scare-mongering that this would hit Ireland economically.

 

 

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

[Torres 0]

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent

.

 

Er.... no the idea was to streamline decision making (making it less democratic and less representative) and to try and give the EU a bigger and more combined voice in the world (politically, not economically we do fine as is with that).

 

 

That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct?

No I think every country should get a chance to vote on it, let every EU citizen speak for themselves, not a couple of 100 people (many who are not elected)......... but that will NEVER happen. Again as I said your idea of "democracy" puts you in exalted company.

 

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

 

They were the only political party to not support it, and yet still the Irish voted no - that is democracy I'm afraid. As much as certain people don't like it.

 

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Maybe if you live in the EU and contributed to it you'd have more of a clue, although I suspect probably not to be fair, and besides that would be more of this democratic nonsense you despise.

 

 

Like I`m gonna argue with somebody who by his own admittance has 'limited political knowledge'.

 

 

Like you can argue/debate/reason or tie your own shoelaces at all.

 

 

(and again it is rather funny when you turn tail and run )

 

 

You admitted your knowledge is 'limited' ... my knowledge isn`t. Call it whatever you like ... but your simply not well informed enough.

[Fop 1]

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda

Nah, never heard of them. They haven't had much press on this here island over the years.

 

Political wing of the I.R.A. ... terrorists.

 

If you think that Sinn Fein (a party with just 4 seats in the Dail) were the main reason behind the no vote then you're very much mistaken.

 

 

Go on then, enlighten me, what credible group were behind this monumental flop?

 

Libertas were the main group behind it in the no-camp but it the main forces behind the result were in fact the government's ballsed campaign and general scare-mongering that this would hit Ireland economically.

 

 

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

Given that there's not a lot different on the economic side of things why exactly would that be?

 

 

Of course Ireland (and a lot of other places) have economic issues now or issues on the horizon, but that again has little to do with anything in the Treaty/Constitution.

[Fop 1]

Dear Fop,

 

The main idea of the Lisbon treaty was to make things more democratic and transparent

.

 

Er.... no the idea was to streamline decision making (making it less democratic and less representative) and to try and give the EU a bigger and more combined voice in the world (politically, not economically we do fine as is with that).

 

 

That is the hilarious thing about it. And 840,000 idiots rejected it. Yet they think that 840,000 should speak for nearly 500 million people! Do you think that is correct?

No I think every country should get a chance to vote on it, let every EU citizen speak for themselves, not a couple of 100 people (many who are not elected)......... but that will NEVER happen. Again as I said your idea of "democracy" puts you in exalted company.

 

Are you familiar with sinn feins history or political agenda (the were the main instigators of the 'no' vote)? The Irish people got hoodwinked by a bizarre group and should be relegated if the vote no again. Lisbon must prevail or it will have disasterous consequences for Europe.

 

 

They were the only political party to not support it, and yet still the Irish voted no - that is democracy I'm afraid. As much as certain people don't like it.

 

 

I live in Switzerland not to avoid tax (though 7% is rather cool), I live there because I`m good at what I do. However, I do realize that with a rising China and India, Europe needs to be in better shape.

 

Maybe if you live in the EU and contributed to it you'd have more of a clue, although I suspect probably not to be fair, and besides that would be more of this democratic nonsense you despise.

 

 

Like I`m gonna argue with somebody who by his own admittance has 'limited political knowledge'.

 

 

Like you can argue/debate/reason or tie your own shoelaces at all.

 

 

(and again it is rather funny when you turn tail and run )

 

 

You admitted your knowledge is 'limited' ... my knowledge isn`t. Call it whatever you like ... but your simply not well informed enough.

 

Like I said it is funny.

[ewerk 31631]

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

 

I've never said that the rejection of the Treaty was the correct decision, what I have said is that the EU has put this veto in place for a good reason and can't complain when it works against them.

[Park Life 71]

The most important thing the EU needs is its own army. The Parky Foundation predicts rough waters ahead.

[Fop 1]

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

 

I've never said that the rejection of the Treaty was the correct decision, what I have said is that the EU has put this veto in place for a good reason and can't complain when it works against them.

 

 

That's the thing, whether you want the Constitution/Treaty or not, any sane person should be worried about the methodology going on here.

 

Changing the name, and keeping all the iffy bits, whilst getting rid of some superfluous bits (like a national EU anthem) and then claiming it is a different thing and people don't need referendums to ratify it, even if they were promised/given referendums before, if pretty shocking.

 

But if they just blissful march on and ignore the Irish vote (either in a two tier EU or just crush the Irish vote in some fudge) went it is implicit in the document at ALL members have to agree, then that's even more disturbing.

 

 

The strange thing is the EU is frankly exceeding its worst stereotypes on this issue, and that with a bit of thought and listening to the EU public at large they could probably win referendums in all countries on most of the issues they want changed.... it would probably mean quite a few less snouts in the trough and a lot less trough to start with though.

[Fop 1]

The most important thing the EU needs is its own army. The Parky Foundation predicts rough waters ahead.

Plans afoot eh?

[Torres 0]

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

 

I've never said that the rejection of the Treaty was the correct decision, what I have said is that the EU has put this veto in place for a good reason and can't complain when it works against them.

 

It was done by beurocrats a long time ago who had no idea of the dire consequences it would have today, that is a tragedy for Europe and especially Ireland.

 

Did you vote?

[Fop 1]

It will hit them economically. Just watch. They deserve it too after such an idiotic decision. Let`s see Libertas attracting foreign investment to Ireland.

 

I've never said that the rejection of the Treaty was the correct decision, what I have said is that the EU has put this veto in place for a good reason and can't complain when it works against them.

 

It was done by beurocrats a long time ago who had no idea of the dire consequences it would have today, that is a tragedy for Europe and especially Ireland.

 

Did you vote?

 

You don't know what you are talking about again do you.