manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I have played WWII games in front of my Grandad who was in the war and he wasnt arsed one bit, neither was he arsed watching all those war themed films that you find offensive, as it happens he quite enjoyed them. Why? For one he took it for what it was which is mindless entertainment. If it was setting out to be a accurate representation of what happened then Im sure he'd have been pissed off. As so often happens with these types of arguements is those that find something offensive seem to do so for a group of people they neither have anything in common with or represent. 39731[/snapback] Cool. He's the official spokesperson for that generation then is he? My grandad was in the navy and was deployed to deal with the allied assistance after Hiroshima. He can't talk about things like that-literally, you can't ask him those sorts of questions. Not that he's a spokesperson for his generation either but you get my point. 39736[/snapback] I'm not sure I do get your point. Are we to ban things because they might offend some individuals - that's the bottom line, surely? I think I know your online persona well enough to know you don't think this. Therefore I conclude you just find the concept of these games personally a bit distasteful, and you are dismissive of video games as an art form. Am I right in my thinking? 39744[/snapback] Mate, I've answered the second point already if you scroll back. I don't like video games generally cos i get no enjoyment from them but thats not what's informing my opinions and to be honest theres nothing I've said to have given you that impression. If thats what you think then it's based on a false premise. It's just convenient to your argument to say that. And as for banning anything thats offensive-no I don't think that obviously. I said I found them a bit sick-which is my opinion. You'll also note that I said that if you enjoy them then thats okay. Whats happening here is that you're having a problem with my opinion of what you find enjoyable and you're struggling to justify your enjoyment of it. You've made your case mate and I accept what youre saying. When you start attributing viewpoints to me which I dont hold though, then thats probably where the discussion should end. Start going round in circles then. 39750[/snapback] Fair enough, I respect yourviewpoint. I'm not struggling to justify my enjoyment of CoD though, I literally see nothing wrong in it whatsoever. I fully respect what the veterans have done as well, and, in a way, the freedom to play games like this is ironically all down to them. 39763[/snapback] You've certainly left me under no illusion that you think it's a kick ass game, soldier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You misunderstand. I can accept that some people don't find it sick-it's obvious Renton, Sima you and your grandad don't. This has been about them trying to persuade me of their viewpoint though, which isnt going to happen. Then, when they can't do that, I'm apparently calling for a ban of these sorts of things (Renton and Sima have both accused me of this). Only the point is I haven't done done that-it's just convenient to turn the argument in that direction. In essence its been about those that disagree with my viewpoint trying to justify their alternative viewpoint (which is that of enjoyment.) 39767[/snapback] To be fair Manc Mag, I think you are misrepresenting me. Scroll up a few replies up, and I think you'll find that I said I know your online persona well enough to know that you don't want to ban this game. Just thought I'd clear that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I dont think it was entirely pointless given that you were at that point premising your entire argument on your grandad's experiences of the war. Anyways I think the one thats based on actual battles is a bit sick tbh, seeing as theres ex-servicemen still alive and all that. If that was me and I'd lost mates I'd be devo'd if I saw my grandson and his mates playing that with retarded grins on their faces. 39756[/snapback] I didnt have an arguement your point is based on how you would feel if you were in their position. All I did was give a real example of someone who is. Im not saying he's representative of all but Im sure like most adults he can separate somthing thats meant to be entertainmnet from something serious. So yes that comment was pointless and just looks like you're trying to be a smart arse tbh 39761[/snapback] You misunderstand. I can accept that some people don't find it sick-it's obvious Renton, Sima you and your grandad don't. This has been about them trying to persuade me of their viewpoint though, which isnt going to happen. Then, when they can't do that, I'm apparently calling for a ban of these sorts of things (Renton and Sima have both accused me of this). Only the point is I haven't done done that-it's just convenient to turn the argument in that direction. In essence its been about those that disagree with my viewpoint trying to justify their alternative viewpoint (which is that of enjoyment.) 39767[/snapback] You can get those strategy walkthrough things you know? They tell you point by point how to get past the bit you're stuck on. 39769[/snapback] Who d'you think yee are like, 'Gemsmaster'?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43848 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I have played WWII games in front of my Grandad who was in the war and he wasnt arsed one bit, neither was he arsed watching all those war themed films that you find offensive, as it happens he quite enjoyed them. Why? For one he took it for what it was which is mindless entertainment. If it was setting out to be a accurate representation of what happened then Im sure he'd have been pissed off. As so often happens with these types of arguements is those that find something offensive seem to do so for a group of people they neither have anything in common with or represent. 39731[/snapback] Cool. He's the official spokesperson for that generation then is he? My grandad was in the navy and was deployed to deal with the allied assistance after Hiroshima. He can't talk about things like that-literally, you can't ask him those sorts of questions. Not that he's a spokesperson for his generation either but you get my point. 39736[/snapback] I'm not sure I do get your point. Are we to ban things because they might offend some individuals - that's the bottom line, surely? I think I know your online persona well enough to know you don't think this. Therefore I conclude you just find the concept of these games personally a bit distasteful, and you are dismissive of video games as an art form. Am I right in my thinking? 39744[/snapback] Mate, I've answered the second point already if you scroll back. I don't like video games generally cos i get no enjoyment from them but thats not what's informing my opinions and to be honest theres nothing I've said to have given you that impression. If thats what you think then it's based on a false premise. It's just convenient to your argument to say that. And as for banning anything thats offensive-no I don't think that obviously. I said I found them a bit sick-which is my opinion. You'll also note that I said that if you enjoy them then thats okay. Whats happening here is that you're having a problem with my opinion of what you find enjoyable and you're struggling to justify your enjoyment of it. You've made your case mate and I accept what youre saying. When you start attributing viewpoints to me which I dont hold though, then thats probably where the discussion should end. Start going round in circles then. 39750[/snapback] Fair enough, I respect yourviewpoint. I'm not struggling to justify my enjoyment of CoD though, I literally see nothing wrong in it whatsoever. I fully respect what the veterans have done as well, and, in a way, the freedom to play games like this is ironically all down to them. 39763[/snapback] You've certainly left me under no illusion that you think it's a kick ass game, soldier! 39770[/snapback] In reality, its just above average, but is too scripted for my liking. And despite how I come across in this thread, I'm not really that much into playing games any more. I'm just in the mood for a good argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43848 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. 39781[/snapback] Why like, are you staking a claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You misunderstand. I can accept that some people don't find it sick-it's obvious Renton, Sima you and your grandad don't. This has been about them trying to persuade me of their viewpoint though, which isnt going to happen. Then, when they can't do that, I'm apparently calling for a ban of these sorts of things (Renton and Sima have both accused me of this). Only the point is I haven't done done that-it's just convenient to turn the argument in that direction. In essence its been about those that disagree with my viewpoint trying to justify their alternative viewpoint (which is that of enjoyment.) 39767[/snapback] To be fair Manc Mag, I think you are misrepresenting me. Scroll up a few replies up, and I think you'll find that I said I know your online persona well enough to know that you don't want to ban this game. Just thought I'd clear that up. 39773[/snapback] Nah mate, I realise that. I was referring to the earlier 'ban Saving Private Ryan' comment. I know that was also throw-away, but it was basically making out that my argument was one of censorship. Sima did the same, which was misrepresenting my point of view in fact. That and all the business about me having some petty agenda against computer games generally (again I dunno where that came from and so I once again conclude that it was just a convenient argument to hang your hat on), just seemed to be taking it off in the wrong direction. To clarify (and hopefully summarise then) it's not about censorship, I'm not calling for a ban, I expressed a personal opinion and then I backed that opinion up with argument. Banning and censorship is a different argument entirely and not one that I would subscribe to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. 39781[/snapback] Why like, are you staking a claim? 39783[/snapback] I think anyone doing that would have to beat you off first with a long and very shitty stick. With all nails in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You don't have to try something to disapprove of it. Like necrophilia or crystal meth. I'm with manc-mag to a point. The servicemen and women of this country are the most incredible people who deserve our gratitude. If they didn't like the game I'd be all for banning it. Compared to fighting for your country, increasing growth in the 15-34 gaming sector is hardly something to be proud of! 39707[/snapback] So you're in favour of banning things minority groups (whoever they might be) don't like? Interesting. 39712[/snapback] Yes Renton, that's exactly what I meant. It's a very straightforward opinion. I'll restate it. I would rather a game like this was deemed acceptable by the people it represented before our enjoyment. It's out of respect nothing more. If the war pensioners association think it's ok, then aces! FWIW I love computer games although I prefer things like Zelda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. 39781[/snapback] Why like, are you staking a claim? 39783[/snapback] Ok, let's see. I have an interest in computer games, diesel locomotives, football, astronomy, science fiction, internet message boards, bird watching, and hill walking. Oh fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. 39781[/snapback] Why like, are you staking a claim? 39783[/snapback] Ok, let's see. I have an interest in computer games, diesel locomotives, football, astronomy, science fiction, internet message boards, bird watching, and hill walking. Oh fuck. 39789[/snapback] You'll need that stick I was talking about then cos that is but nothing compared to old ginger pubes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43848 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Now there was a class TV show. Wall to wall geeks and all they wanted was to get humiliated by the king of all geeks for not being able to finish their latest game. 39777[/snapback] I hope your not suggesting Patrick Moore is the king of all geeks. 39781[/snapback] Why like, are you staking a claim? 39783[/snapback] Ok, let's see. I have an interest in computer games, diesel locomotives, football, astronomy, science fiction, internet message boards, bird watching, and hill walking. Oh fuck. 39789[/snapback] You'll need that stick I was talking about then cos that is but nothing compared to old ginger pubes! 39790[/snapback] Knerbjerkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 You don't have to try something to disapprove of it. Like necrophilia or crystal meth. I'm with manc-mag to a point. The servicemen and women of this country are the most incredible people who deserve our gratitude. If they didn't like the game I'd be all for banning it. Compared to fighting for your country, increasing growth in the 15-34 gaming sector is hardly something to be proud of! 39707[/snapback] So you're in favour of banning things minority groups (whoever they might be) don't like? Interesting. 39712[/snapback] Yes Renton, that's exactly what I meant. It's a very straightforward opinion. I'll restate it. I would rather a game like this was deemed acceptable by the people it represented before our enjoyment. It's out of respect nothing more. If the war pensioners association think it's ok, then aces! FWIW I love computer games although I prefer things like Zelda. 39788[/snapback] No, you've lost me. What do you mean by "you'd rather"? Are we talking about an involuntary ban here? Because I'm sue you can see that would have far reaching implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 This argument is going nowhere without Blaydon, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I'd be against banning the games but I can see how some people may find them offensive and disrespectful. Unless CoD is very different to FPS I've played before though, I find the 'educational' claims pretty laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 No, you've lost me. What do you mean by "you'd rather"? Are we talking about an involuntary ban here? Because I'm sue you can see that would have far reaching implications. 39793[/snapback] I feel very strongly (as to be fair we probably all do) that the people who fought for this country should be given special status in society. Without them, nothing of our lives today would be the same. I think it's shameful how quickly we move on and assume it was just history, that's all. In arguments like this we all (myself included) tend to seek a comparison argument like a lawyer would, ie: you think x so it follows that you also think y. Arguments can get a bit carried away and miss the fact that most life is about judgement and compromise. So while I don't find everything offensive, I just feel that in this instance, the feelings of the people involved should come first. Again I don't know for sure whether veteran's groups were consulted first, but I think they should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 This argument is going nowhere without Blaydon, tbh. 39798[/snapback] He's probably here though eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 This argument is going nowhere without Blaydon, tbh. 39798[/snapback] He's probably here though eh 39808[/snapback] Where's Wellsy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20941 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 No, you've lost me. What do you mean by "you'd rather"? Are we talking about an involuntary ban here? Because I'm sue you can see that would have far reaching implications. 39793[/snapback] I feel very strongly (as to be fair we probably all do) that the people who fought for this country should be given special status in society. Without them, nothing of our lives today would be the same. I think it's shameful how quickly we move on and assume it was just history, that's all. In arguments like this we all (myself included) tend to seek a comparison argument like a lawyer would, ie: you think x so it follows that you also think y. Arguments can get a bit carried away and miss the fact that most life is about judgement and compromise. So while I don't find everything offensive, I just feel that in this instance, the feelings of the people involved should come first. Again I don't know for sure whether veteran's groups were consulted first, but I think they should have been. 39804[/snapback] Fair enough, but without some fundamental change in the law, what you're describing is a voluntary ban, which would never happen in practice. Funnily enough, my Dad gets offended by almost all video games (not just the war, which he obviously wasn't in). He once got upset when I started bludgeoning a scientist to death with a crow bar in the original half life. They took that ability away in half life 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Fair enough, but without some fundamental change in the law, what you're describing is a voluntary ban, which would never happen in practice. Funnily enough, my Dad gets offended by almost all video games (not just the war, which he obviously wasn't in). He once got upset when I started bludgeoning a scientist to death with a crow bar in the original half life. They took that ability away in half life 2. 39818[/snapback] I think Dads in general think computer games aren't a manly pursuit. "Indoors on a day like this etc etc!" They probably have a point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 This argument is going nowhere without Blaydon, tbh. 39798[/snapback] He's probably here though eh 39808[/snapback] Where's Wellsy? 39811[/snapback] Surely not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 This argument is going nowhere without Blaydon, tbh. 39798[/snapback] He's probably here though eh 39808[/snapback] Where's Wellsy? 39811[/snapback] Surely not! 39822[/snapback] Stewards inquiry. IP check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43848 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Let's play Global Thermonuclear War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Take your hands off your cock for a second, you're cutting off the blood supply to your brain. 39762[/snapback] I will when you stand up and stop squashing your brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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