Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 There is scant oversight on the security services....I mean scant....Very little.... I reckon they should just take him out. The judge? sorry, I meant those who think they can sue them The bloke wrongly arrested, jailed for 7 years, tortured throughout and released without charge is to blame and deserves to be punished? tell him he's lucky to be out and fuck off. If he wants to sue anybody, he should sue those who imprisoned him. Another example of how soft and stupid we are. He's part of a civil suit in the US too...that doesn't mean the UK shouldn't also be held account for the 7 years of inhumane treatment against a man who'd done nothing beyond surfing the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9421 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 There is scant oversight on the security services....I mean scant....Very little.... I reckon they should just take him out. The judge? sorry, I meant those who think they can sue them The bloke wrongly arrested, jailed for 7 years, tortured throughout and released without charge is to blame and deserves to be punished? tell him he's lucky to be out and fuck off. If he wants to sue anybody, he should sue those who imprisoned him. Another example of how soft and stupid we are. He's part of a civil suit in the US too...that doesn't mean the UK shouldn't also be held account for the 7 years of inhumane treatment against a man who'd done nothing beyond surfing the web. Oh dear, how sad Omellete's/eggs etc etc He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 All this stuff about being accountable is only really for public consumption, cause the general public are programmed essentially in the father (big brother) - child relationship. We are programmed to give consent and we really don't want to know about the nasty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. haven't you just said in the other thread that being "unproven" doesn't necessarily mean "innocent" and advocate the taking out of someone "obviously responsible" You really think we should bear the cost of other countries torturing and imprisoning people ? No wonder this country is losing its way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. haven't you just said in the other thread that being "unproven" doesn't necessarily mean "innocent" and advocate the taking out of someone "obviously responsible" You really think we should bear the cost of other countries torturing and imprisoning people ? No wonder this country is losing its way. Theres a difference bewteen Bin Laden and a few daft students who are misled into trying and failing miserably to join a cause. The point is torture is completely illegal and doesn't even work - as others have said today you either take the moral high ground and obey the law or you go down to the other person's level. If you do the latter then you should be prepared for payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that That would be the Western governments who needed a new bogeyman - you really need to watch The Power of Nightmares. haven't you just said in the other thread that being "unproven" doesn't necessarily mean "innocent" and advocate the taking out of someone "obviously responsible" You really think we should bear the cost of other countries torturing and imprisoning people ? No wonder this country is losing its way. Theres a difference bewteen Bin Laden and a few daft students who are misled into trying and failing miserably to join a cause. The point is torture is completely illegal and doesn't even work - as others have said today you either take the moral high ground and obey the law or you go down to the other person's level. If you do the latter then you should be prepared for payback. We didn't torture him. He should do as toonpack says, or sue those in Pakistan and Afghanistan who did. Why doesn't he ? On another note, you do realise it is your taxes that would go to pay this cunt ? How much money do you think we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 There is scant oversight on the security services....I mean scant....Very little.... I reckon they should just take him out. The judge? sorry, I meant those who think they can sue them The bloke wrongly arrested, jailed for 7 years, tortured throughout and released without charge is to blame and deserves to be punished? tell him he's lucky to be out and fuck off. If he wants to sue anybody, he should sue those who imprisoned him. Another example of how soft and stupid we are. He's part of a civil suit in the US too...that doesn't mean the UK shouldn't also be held account for the 7 years of inhumane treatment against a man who'd done nothing beyond surfing the web. Oh dear, how sad Omellete's/eggs etc etc He should sue the fundamentalist clerics, who by their actions have created the environment where "these things happen". Root cause analysis and all that Aye, the Birmingham 6 should be told to fuck off and find the people that REALLY did it before they get any compen too. The justice system can't be expected to be held accountable when if fucks up completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) point is the governments of various countries around the world bowed to the pressure of the US regimes "with us or agin us" attitude and deported people (justly in some cases and unjustly in some cases) contrary to the laws of the deporting countries themselves and then the US held the accused at a facility with no international jurisdiction (other than "we have the biggest stick") where the detainees were systematically tortured and interogated. While I agree it's a shitty thing that the general populous has to foot the compensation bill, isn't that the best advert for higher voter turn-out to get the proper leadership in place for future decisions? Edited February 17, 2010 by tooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. who are they exactly? good-guys muslim immigrants unjustly deported bad guys muslim immigrants justly deported fill out the other players as you see fit Leazes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. who are they exactly? good-guys muslim immigrants unjustly deported bad guys muslim immigrants justly deported fill out the other players as you see fit Leazes Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. who are they exactly? good-guys muslim immigrants unjustly deported bad guys muslim immigrants justly deported fill out the other players as you see fit Leazes Yawn ...no idea then eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. who are they exactly? good-guys muslim immigrants unjustly deported bad guys muslim immigrants justly deported fill out the other players as you see fit Leazes Yawn ...no idea then eh? I'm basically not interested. You don't need to tell me about security, and things like this. Especially being a yank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Leazes is right like in a way. The Government and those in their employment have fucked up and we'll have to foot the bill. In a very convoluted and unjust sort of way. His solution is to make sure the government cannot be placed on such charges to ensure they get away with it, rather than holding them to account and punishing their misdeeds to put off future governments from repeating and worsening the offences. For someone so opposed to the USSR and their style of government/justice/disappearances in the night it's a confuzzled point of view. get away with what ? Other countries torture him, he thinks he can sue us, and you agree with it ? What planet do you live on If that were the case, he wouldn't have a case and would be told to fuck off. But the facts are.... "MI5 was fully aware of the brutal treatment he received, and" not only "provided information and questions to be asked by his torturers" but also "helped 'interrogate' Mohamed in Pakistan in 2002" "The courts have concluded that British officers were, indeed, deeply enmeshed in the abuse" "MI5 kept files relating to the treatment of Mohamed from the ISC" "It is a crime to commit ‘an act which constitutes complicity in torture." you should go back and read Toonpacks post about the good guys and the bad guys HF. There are a lot of bad guys out there and its about time you recognised who they are and ask yourself again, why WE should foot the bill and others are quite happy to see us do it. We owe him nothing. He will claim from us, because we are the only ones daft enought to contemplate it. who are they exactly? good-guys muslim immigrants unjustly deported bad guys muslim immigrants justly deported fill out the other players as you see fit Leazes Yawn ...no idea then eh? I'm basically not interested. You don't need to tell me about security, and things like this. Especially being a yank. ......i would say you are basic, remedial even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? the government wrongly deported him/them contrary to the governments laws......who bears the responsibility if not the government? had a couple of these happen in Canada where the "deport now ask questions later" came back to bite gov't in the ass to the tune of several million dollars. as for why he thinks it'll be worth it, probably a combination of someone telling him to get on the gravy train and the fact he was betrayed by his own government. Edited February 17, 2010 by tooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? the government wrongly deported him/them contrary to the governments laws......who bears the responsibility if not the government? had a couple of these happen in Canada where the "deport now ask questions later" came back to bite gov't in the ass to the tune of several million dollars. as for why he thinks it'll be worth it, probably a combination of someone telling him to get on the gravy train and the fact he was betrayed by his own government. at least you understand something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? the government wrongly deported him/them contrary to the governments laws......who bears the responsibility if not the government? had a couple of these happen in Canada where the "deport now ask questions later" came back to bite gov't in the ass to the tune of several million dollars. as for why he thinks it'll be worth it, probably a combination of someone telling him to get on the gravy train and the fact he was betrayed by his own government. at least you understand something. so does the bolded bit trump the fact he/they were deported illeagally in your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? the government wrongly deported him/them contrary to the governments laws......who bears the responsibility if not the government? had a couple of these happen in Canada where the "deport now ask questions later" came back to bite gov't in the ass to the tune of several million dollars. as for why he thinks it'll be worth it, probably a combination of someone telling him to get on the gravy train and the fact he was betrayed by his own government. at least you understand something. so does the bolded bit trump the fact he/they were deported illeagally in your eyes? I never said anything about the "legality", I'm saying we are a bunch of soft cunts for putting up with it and for those defending such idiocy to our own cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Well. Back to where we were. Why should we allow someone to sue us for torturing him, when it wasn't us who tortured him, and why does he think it will be worth his while trying ? the government wrongly deported him/them contrary to the governments laws......who bears the responsibility if not the government? had a couple of these happen in Canada where the "deport now ask questions later" came back to bite gov't in the ass to the tune of several million dollars. as for why he thinks it'll be worth it, probably a combination of someone telling him to get on the gravy train and the fact he was betrayed by his own government. at least you understand something. so does the bolded bit trump the fact he/they were deported illeagally in your eyes? I never said anything about the "legality", I'm saying we are a bunch of soft cunts for putting up with it and for those defending such idiocy to our own cost. putting up with being illeagally deported? ..... if it had been a person/persons of a non-identfiable minorty (angry-football forum- anglo-saxon- blue collar worker.... ) that had been deported would you feel the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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