SloopJohn 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 http://metaphilm.com/index.php/main/commen...y-in-the-water/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i can't even begin to fathom how flawed that essay is. that paragraph on the samurai sword. wow. What's wrong with it Sloopie? i think that counter-argument summed up quite nicely. what I find particuarly shallow about all of Tarantino's work is how he lies to the audience by portraying violence as entertainment. it's absurd and shallow, and even though it's usually in a hyper-stylised way, he is portraying acts, that in reality have unfathomable emotional resonance, as something to find glee over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i can't even begin to fathom how flawed that essay is. that paragraph on the samurai sword. wow. What's wrong with it Sloopie? i think that counter-argument summed up quite nicely. what I find particuarly shallow about all of Tarantino's work is how he lies to the audience by portraying violence as entertainment. it's absurd and shallow, and even though it's usually in a hyper-stylised way, he is portraying acts, that in reality have unfathomable emotional resonance, as something to find glee over. Do you have the same problem with the Coens putting people through a wood chipping machine, or shooting someone in the head who mistakes the gun for an inhaler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i can't even begin to fathom how flawed that essay is. that paragraph on the samurai sword. wow. What's wrong with it Sloopie? i think that counter-argument summed up quite nicely. what I find particuarly shallow about all of Tarantino's work is how he lies to the audience by portraying violence as entertainment. it's absurd and shallow, and even though it's usually in a hyper-stylised way, he is portraying acts, that in reality have unfathomable emotional resonance, as something to find glee over. Can't stand the cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i can't even begin to fathom how flawed that essay is. that paragraph on the samurai sword. wow. What's wrong with it Sloopie? i think that counter-argument summed up quite nicely. what I find particuarly shallow about all of Tarantino's work is how he lies to the audience by portraying violence as entertainment. it's absurd and shallow, and even though it's usually in a hyper-stylised way, he is portraying acts, that in reality have unfathomable emotional resonance, as something to find glee over. Do you have the same problem with the Coens putting people through a wood chipping machine, or shooting someone in the head who mistakes the gun for an inhaler? completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 i can't even begin to fathom how flawed that essay is. that paragraph on the samurai sword. wow. What's wrong with it Sloopie? i think that counter-argument summed up quite nicely. what I find particuarly shallow about all of Tarantino's work is how he lies to the audience by portraying violence as entertainment. it's absurd and shallow, and even though it's usually in a hyper-stylised way, he is portraying acts, that in reality have unfathomable emotional resonance, as something to find glee over. Do you have the same problem with the Coens putting people through a wood chipping machine, or shooting someone in the head who mistakes the gun for an inhaler? completely. Hmm. I'm just wondering at what point the line is drawn for you between acceptable violence (in something you've said you like such as The Godfather) which while thrilling has a cost amply shown, and violence as shallow entertainment. I believe the Coen examples above (and the Godfather) punish the perpetrators of violence which lets the audience of the hook for enjoying it. There's a catharsis for the viewer when characters are punished for their acts. Tarantino follows this model too in my opinion (on the simplest level, of the two hitmen, only the one that repents survives). Why does Copolla get off the hook for you, but not the Coens or Taranteeny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) I can't really talk for The Godfather as I've not seen it in quite a while (since I first started filmmaking, when I studied it briefly) and since I consumed it my tastes (and views on violence) have completely changed (I did love it though) so I don't feel qualified to comment on Copolla's portrayal of violence. however. I don't think the audience are ever left off the hook because the perpetrator of the violence has what's, within this supposed 'moral' universe (a real issue I have with American film making that seems to central to the systems core philisophical beliefs), coming to them in terms of death, arrest etc. as in Fargo, the audience perceives Marge's actions of shooting Grimsrud in the leg as a positive thing. i.e this guy is bad now look what happened to him - but the audience is satisfied and finds positives in the fact that he got hurt, that an act of violence was commited upon him. so in fact, the audience finds supposed 'moral' redemption in a violent act. i find this absurd because there is nothing redeeming in an act of violence. I think the most obvious modern day film maker who treat violence as a brutal and terrifying act is Michael Haneke (most obviously in La Pianiste). and Gus Van Sant's Elephant is another film that really resonated with me in terms of it's attitudes towards violence. anyway. enough! Edited April 8, 2008 by SloopJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Titanic is the obvious one for me. Wins a million Oscars and breaks all kinds of box office records and is utter shite. What feels like two weeks of a boat sinking with a dull love story thrown in for good measure. If you want to see a ship sink watch The Poseidon Adventure and if you want romance I can think of a million better films. Forest Gump is also absolutely gash. I really hated The 400 Blows too. It was the most bored I'd ever been watching anything. I'd rather watch Emerdale than be forced to endure that shite again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Shit films in the IMDB top 250... The Third Man - Very good although admittedly not as great as it's made out to be. A Clockwork Orange - Agree, didn't get this at all. Forrest Gump - Agree 100% shite. Requiem For A Dream - Just downloaded this, looking forward to it now Gladiator - Enjoyable but by no means a classic. Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl - Enjoyed more when I watched it again but it's not in the same league as Indiana Jones (or the Mummy for that matter) Usual Suspects is brilliant and personally I had no trouble following it (although I don't think it's at all possible to determine who Kaiser Soze is without a complete guess) and the Matrix is a thoroughly enjoyable action film but by no means a work of genius. The prestige was good but not great by any means. 12 Monkeys is absolutely fantastic though. Great performance from Willis and Pitt and a superb mind bending concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Shit films for me in the top 100 in the IMDB. Haven't heard of some. 12 The LOTR 20 Usual Suspects - never got it and didn't enjoy it (watched it twice) 23 Fight Club - one of the most oiverrated films ever 24 Silence of the Lambs - bored me to tears 28 The LOTR 33 Se7en 36 American Beauty - shite 51 Alien - must be the only person on earth who hated all four 68 Aliens - see above How the fuck is Trainspotting 171, yank cunts not getting it I suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I really hated The 400 Blows too. It was the most bored I'd ever been watching anything. I'd rather watch Emerdale than be forced to endure that shite again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Shit films for me in the top 100 in the IMDB. Haven't heard of some. 12 The LOTR 20 Usual Suspects - never got it and didn't enjoy it (watched it twice) 23 Fight Club - one of the most oiverrated films ever 24 Silence of the Lambs - bored me to tears 28 The LOTR 33 Se7en 36 American Beauty - shite 51 Alien - must be the only person on earth who hated all four 68 Aliens - see above How the fuck is Trainspotting 171, yank cunts not getting it I suspect You're a harsh judge Stevie lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I can't really talk for The Godfather as I've not seen it in quite a while (since I first started filmmaking, when I studied it briefly) and since I consumed it my tastes (and views on violence) have completely changed (I did love it though) so I don't feel qualified to comment on Copolla's portrayal of violence. however. I don't think the audience are ever left off the hook because the perpetrator of the violence has what's, within this supposed 'moral' universe (a real issue I have with American film making that seems to central to the systems core philisophical beliefs), coming to them in terms of death, arrest etc. as in Fargo, the audience perceives Marge's actions of shooting Grimsrud in the leg as a positive thing. i.e this guy is bad now look what happened to him - but the audience is satisfied and finds positives in the fact that he got hurt, that an act of violence was commited upon him. so in fact, the audience finds supposed 'moral' redemption in a violent act. i find this absurd because there is nothing redeeming in an act of violence. I think the most obvious modern day film maker who treat violence as a brutal and terrifying act is Michael Haneke (most obviously in La Pianiste). and Gus Van Sant's Elephant is another film that really resonated with me in terms of it's attitudes towards violence. anyway. enough! As much as I appreciate the point behind films like Irreversible and Funny Games (braying the viewer around the head for having previously laughed at violence or been excited by murder on film) I still don't buy into the notion that as a responsible audience member I should reject thrills and spills altogether. I've had The Piano Teacher on my shelf for at least 2 years now, but still not put it on, I get the impression Haneke is presenting a double standard from what films of his I have seen so far though. In Funny Games he refuses to put any violent acts on screen, only showing the aftermath so the viewer only deals with consequences and never gets the 'fun bit'......but then in Hidden the throat cutting scene is clearly the must heart pumping in the entire film. Brutal and Terrifying, fair enough, but he's still satisfying the bloodlust of a conventional thriller viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 12 Monkeys is absolutely fantastic though. Great performance from Willis and Pitt and a superb mind bending concept. I don't think I've enjoyed any Terry Gilliam. Brazil and Fear and Loathing spring to mind. People cream their pants over them. I see very little to enjoy in any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21760 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Never been a fan of Raising Arizona. that's one of my favourite ever films. the 15 minute intro is priceless in itself. definitely the cohen brothers' best work - they're at their best when they do comedy imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21760 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Never been a fan of Raising Arizona. Me either. They should have done it in colour as well I thought. are you sure you've got the right film here alex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Never been a fan of Raising Arizona. Me either. They should have done it in colour as well I thought. are you sure you've got the right film here alex? I think he means Blood Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Shit films for me in the top 100 in the IMDB. Haven't heard of some. 12 The LOTR 20 Usual Suspects - never got it and didn't enjoy it (watched it twice) 23 Fight Club - one of the most oiverrated films ever 24 Silence of the Lambs - bored me to tears 28 The LOTR 33 Se7en 36 American Beauty - shite 51 Alien - must be the only person on earth who hated all four 68 Aliens - see above How the fuck is Trainspotting 171, yank cunts not getting it I suspect You would have thought that after hating the first three you would have called it a day before watching resurection. I commend you on your persistance though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I really hated The 400 Blows too. It was the most bored I'd ever been watching anything. I'd rather watch Emerdale than be forced to endure that shite again. Absolutely hated, I actually turned it off about ten minutes before the end and it is unheard of for me to do that after trying so hard to stick with it. I felt think punching meself for putting me through it. It has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. And it's not because I can't get films that have no action because I watched Tokyo Story last year in which there is no action at all and even the camera stays in one place for nearly all of the film and I absolutely loved it. I started watching Shoot The Piano Player recently and while I wasn't exactly blown away it had something that kept me far more interested so I will get round to watching the rest of it. But I'm just not certain that Truffaut is someone who's work does anything for me (well appart from his acting in Close Encounters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1217 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 12 Monkeys is absolutely fantastic though. Great performance from Willis and Pitt and a superb mind bending concept. I don't think I've enjoyed any Terry Gilliam. Brazil and Fear and Loathing spring to mind. People cream their pants over them. I see very little to enjoy in any of them. I wouldn't say I love Gilliam, Brazil is good but flawed and Fear and Loathing is quite funny not great for me, but I love 12 Monkeys which I feel is the one film of his that I've seen that seems to pull it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't know where to start!! Pulp Fiction and Terminator are the 2 that jump out straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I think peoples view of the Matrix has been tarnished some what by the sequels. It's an exceptional film, really brought new technologies into play, not to be melodramatic but it did revolutionise the filming of action scenes. I think Stevie has been incredibly harsh on those films too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I think peoples view of the Matrix has been tarnished some what by the sequels. It's an exceptional film, really brought new technologies into play, not to be melodramatic but it did revolutionise the filming of action scenes. I think Stevie has been incredibly harsh on those films too. I've never seen any of the sequels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10674 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Fair enough, but I'm speaking generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil 0 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 The Big Lebowski. Supposed to be great, but I still haven't figured out why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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