Put young children on DNA list, urge police.

[Park Life 71]

Put young children on DNA list, urge police

 

· 'We must target potential offenders'

· Teachers' fury over 'dangerous' plan

Mark Townsend and Anushka Asthana

The Observer, Sunday March 16 2008

 

Primary school children should be eligible for the DNA database if they exhibit behaviour indicating they may become criminals in later life, according to Britain's most senior police forensics expert.

 

Gary Pugh, director of forensic sciences at Scotland Yard and the new DNA spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said a debate was needed on how far Britain should go in identifying potential offenders, given that some experts believe it is possible to identify future offending traits in children as young as five.

 

'If we have a primary means of identifying people before they offend, then in the long-term the benefits of targeting younger people are extremely large,' said Pugh. 'You could argue the younger the better. Criminologists say some people will grow out of crime; others won't. We have to find who are possibly going to be the biggest threat to society.'

 

 

 

Orwell will be turning in his grave.

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar...ustice.children

[luckyluke 2]

Fucking hell, being written off as a criminal at five years old. That'll make you think twice about sabotaging some other kid's finger paintings.

[Ketsbaia 0]

 

Fuck that

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I'd put everyone on a DNA database and collect DNA from newborns.

 

What have you got to hide if you haven't done anything wrong?

 

My only issue would be I wouldn't trust the present government to look after the info seen as though they struggle to keep tabs on discs with peoples addresses or bank details on.

[manc-mag 1]

Put young children on DNA list, urge police

 

· 'We must target potential offenders'

· Teachers' fury over 'dangerous' plan

Mark Townsend and Anushka Asthana

The Observer, Sunday March 16 2008

 

Primary school children should be eligible for the DNA database if they exhibit behaviour indicating they may become criminals in later life, according to Britain's most senior police forensics expert.

 

Gary Pugh, director of forensic sciences at Scotland Yard and the new DNA spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said a debate was needed on how far Britain should go in identifying potential offenders, given that some experts believe it is possible to identify future offending traits in children as young as five.

 

'If we have a primary means of identifying people before they offend, then in the long-term the benefits of targeting younger people are extremely large,' said Pugh. 'You could argue the younger the better. Criminologists say some people will grow out of crime; others won't. We have to find who are possibly going to be the biggest threat to society.'

 

Orwell will be turning in his grave.

 

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar...ustice.children

 

Orwell 'unmoved' yesterday:

 

 

"Fuck off, I'm dead!"

[Craig 6703]

I'd put everyone on a DNA database and collect DNA from newborns.

 

What have you got to hide if you haven't done anything wrong?

 

My only issue would be I wouldn't trust the present government to look after the info seen as though they struggle to keep tabs on discs with peoples addresses or bank details on.

 

My issue is that, while every person's DNA _IS_ unique (and so is their fingerprint), the trouble is in the way you measure it.

 

When you do a DNA "fingerprint" you only measure a certain number of reference points on the DNA sequence. Just as with a fingerprint only a certain number of reference points on the prints are measured. Unless you compare the ENTIRE DNA sequence there is a chance of replication.

 

On the common DNA test they do in this country there is a 1 in 10 million chance of the DNA sample belonging to someone who is NOT a close blood relative (of course, there is a high chance of a match with a close blood relative). Doesn't sound a lot. But it means there are about 6 people in the UK who will match you on this basis.

[Guest alex]

I'd put everyone on a DNA database and collect DNA from newborns.

 

What have you got to hide if you haven't done anything wrong?

 

My only issue would be I wouldn't trust the present government to look after the info seen as though they struggle to keep tabs on discs with peoples addresses or bank details on.

Why not just stick a micro chip in everyone and be done with it? I can't believe how blasé some people are about giving away liberties.

[Park Life 71]

"Concern over the issue of civil liberties will be further amplified by news yesterday that commuters using Oyster smart cards could have their movements around cities secretly monitored under new counter-terrorism powers being sought by the security services, and that children would be automatically enrolled on the DNA database should they exhibit normal childish misbehaviour."

 

 

 

The good old Oyestercard.

[Meenzer 15877]

You'd have to use an Oyster card that's registered to your actual name and address, I suppose, unless they were stalking you Menezes-style in the first place. I don't, so if anyone needs any London-based crimes committed, give me a shout.

[Park Life 71]

I'd put everyone on a DNA database and collect DNA from newborns.

 

What have you got to hide if you haven't done anything wrong?

 

My only issue would be I wouldn't trust the present government to look after the info seen as though they struggle to keep tabs on discs with peoples addresses or bank details on.

 

"There's a brand new dance

But I don't know it's name

That people from bad homes

Do again and again

It's big and it's bland

Full tension and fear

They do it over there

But we don't do it here"

 

 

 

Beep Beep!

 

 

 

 

Outrage at 500,000 DNA database mistakes

By Toby Helm, Chief Political Correspondent

Last Updated: 1:16am BST 27/08/2007

 

Have your say Read comments

 

Civil liberties campaigners and MPs have raised doubts about the national DNA database after the Home Office confirmed it contained more than 500,000 false or wrongly recorded names.

 

Have your say: Do you have concerns about the DNA database?

Suspects arrested over any imprisonable offence, including rape and murder, can have their DNA held even if they are not charged or are acquitted.

 

 

 

The database, the biggest in the world, contains about four million names.

 

But it has been dogged by problems. Statistics released by the Home Office show it contains around 550,000 files with wrong or misspelt names.

 

Lynne Featherstone, a Liberal Democrat frontbencher, told The Daily Telegraph that she wanted a full parliamentary inquiry into the "shocking" number of errors.

 

"What lies behind these statistics? Is it the police just accept the 'say-so' of those whose DNA they are taking and don't check their names and addresses?" she said.

 

"While the use of DNA can obviously be vital in solving crimes, anything that raises questions about the credibility of the base is not acceptable."

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../27/ndna127.xml

[Park Life 71]

You'd have to use an Oyster card that's registered to your actual name and address, I suppose, unless they were stalking you Menezes-style in the first place. I don't, so if anyone needs any London-based crimes committed, give me a shout.

 

 

http://www.barclaycard-onepulse.co.uk/

[luckyluke 2]

My mate got collared by the police for talking on his mobile whilst driving. Fair enough IMO, but when he had to present his license to the local nick a few days later they asked him if they could have his DNA, he told them to fuck off. They'll only take your liberties if you let them.

[Park Life 71]

My mate got collared by the police for talking on his mobile whilst driving. Fair enough IMO, but when he had to present his license to the local nick a few days later they asked him if they could have his DNA, he told them to fuck off. They'll only take your liberties if you let them.

 

Well done to your mate.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 4098]

Having worked in the prison system in Scotland now for a year I am of the firm belief that criminals breed criminals and if you want to cut crime offer prisoners reduced sentences for voluntary sterilisation.

[Guest alex]

I don't think that's the answer like.

[Fop 1]

I'd put everyone on a DNA database and collect DNA from newborns.

 

What have you got to hide if you haven't done anything wrong?

 

My only issue would be I wouldn't trust the present government to look after the info seen as though they struggle to keep tabs on discs with peoples addresses or bank details on.

Why not just stick a micro chip in everyone and be done with it? I can't believe how blasé some people are about giving away liberties.

 

Have you not seen the health care system they already have (on a small scale admittedly) in the USA? It is utterly amazing what people will allow to happen without realising it is happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for "if you've got nothing to hide if you haven't done anything wrong", there's a couple of basic assumptions that need to be true for that to have any validity.

 

 

1. That DNA evidence is 100% - it's NOT, it's nothing like it (even if you factor out tampering and transplanted DNA) you may have done nothing wrong, but that won't stop you having to prove your innocence from assumed guilt, all you'll get is your door broken down at 4am and dragged off to the cells.

 

 

2. That you have no right to the privacy of your own genetic make up - that's about a private as things can get IMO.

 

 

 

 

Lets put it this way, if the technology had been around 60 years earlier the very FIRST thing the Nazi's would have done is to create a DNA database in Germany and then one in every country they brought under their control.