Kevin Carr's Gloves 3996 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Heard so much about this charasmatic leader whose speeches stirred a nation into accepting some of the most horrendous atrocities the world has ever seen. Then I started watching all those UKTV history programmes and I have to say. The guy was a tit. He basically got up on these podiums and told everyone how they didnt want democracy and he would be their emperor for life and how war would be a good thing. I was watching them thinking I hope I dont find his speeches too powerful cos I find ethnic cleansing to be very distasteful (Abhorrent i am trying not to be too heavy) and all I can think of is f*ck you mate I dont want a dictator for life. Now I know it was a different time but I am quite sure remembering the actions of the Jarrow marchers if he had been born in Hebburn he would have been told to f*ck right off. Why does anybody respect these loons?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hitler's actions were dispicable, however he turned Germany around, from being a country where the economy was soo bad that you literally needed a suitcase full of money to buy a loaf of bread, to being a superpower. He convinced millions to follow his deluded dreams, so with that in mind, although he was thoroughly evil, you have to admit the bloke must have been an amazing leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22031 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Heard so much about this charasmatic leader whose speeches stirred a nation into accepting some of the most horrendous atrocities the world has ever seen. Then I started watching all those UKTV history programmes and I have to say. The guy was a tit. He basically got up on these podiums and told everyone how they didnt want democracy and he would be their emperor for life and how war would be a good thing. I was watching them thinking I hope I dont find his speeches too powerful cos I find ethnic cleansing to be very distasteful (Abhorrent i am trying not to be too heavy) and all I can think of is f*ck you mate I dont want a dictator for life. Now I know it was a different time but I am quite sure remembering the actions of the Jarrow marchers if he had been born in Hebburn he would have been told to f*ck right off. Why does anybody respect these loons?? 36853[/snapback] Maybe something has been lost in translation, you need German as your first language to feel emphatic about him. But yes, just look at the state of him. He was a complete tit and I can't help thinking I would never be swayed by him, whatever my plight. This is fundamentally against my beliefs though, it has to be said (i.e. I believe people are fundamentally the same so it could have happened here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3996 Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hitler's actions were dispicable, however he turned Germany around, from being a country the economy was soo bad that you literally needed a suitcase full of money to buy a loaf of bread, to being a superpower. He convinced millions to follow his deluded dreams, so with that in mind, although he was thoroughly evil, you have to admit the bloke must have been an amazing leader. 36856[/snapback] Yes but he only did that by giving everyone jobs in the armaments factories. That and the canny financial work of his finance minister Kurt Schmitt moving money around like no ones business. It's just all these old people on telly going on about his dynamism and charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hitler's actions were dispicable, however he turned Germany around, from being a country the economy was soo bad that you literally needed a suitcase full of money to buy a loaf of bread, to being a superpower. He convinced millions to follow his deluded dreams, so with that in mind, although he was thoroughly evil, you have to admit the bloke must have been an amazing leader. 36856[/snapback] Yes but he only did that by giving everyone jobs in the armaments factories. That and the canny financial work of his finance minister Kurt Schmitt moving money around like no ones business. It's just all these old people on telly going on about his dynamism and charisma. 36860[/snapback] He was a complete cock, just a rather effective cock was my argument ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3996 Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hitler's actions were dispicable, however he turned Germany around, from being a country the economy was soo bad that you literally needed a suitcase full of money to buy a loaf of bread, to being a superpower. He convinced millions to follow his deluded dreams, so with that in mind, although he was thoroughly evil, you have to admit the bloke must have been an amazing leader. 36856[/snapback] Yes but he only did that by giving everyone jobs in the armaments factories. That and the canny financial work of his finance minister Kurt Schmitt moving money around like no ones business. It's just all these old people on telly going on about his dynamism and charisma. 36860[/snapback] He was a complete cock, just a rather effective cock was my argument ! 36861[/snapback] Fair do's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I went to university with a bloke who reckoned 'Hitler was a decent bloke who got a bad press'. Aye, maybe the world has overreacted to the mass genocide and concentration camps. Cuckoo-cuckoo! Needless to say I used to avoid him. He was easy to spot coming like, what with his tank and SS uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe something has been lost in translation, you need German as your first language to feel emphatic about him. But yes, just look at the state of him. He was a complete tit and I can't help thinking I would never be swayed by him, whatever my plight. This is fundamentally against my beliefs though, it has to be said (i.e. I believe people are fundamentally the same so it could have happened here). 36857[/snapback] Or maybe it's easier than we'd like to think to turn people into fucking savages. Orwell wrote a nice piece in the Observer at the time of the liberation of Paris on how the liberated behaved, worth a read, don't know if that stuff is avaliable online. We don't learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22031 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe something has been lost in translation, you need German as your first language to feel emphatic about him. But yes, just look at the state of him. He was a complete tit and I can't help thinking I would never be swayed by him, whatever my plight. This is fundamentally against my beliefs though, it has to be said (i.e. I believe people are fundamentally the same so it could have happened here). 36857[/snapback] Or maybe it's easier than we'd like to think to turn people into fucking savages. Orwell wrote a nice piece in the Observer at the time of the liberation of Paris on how the liberated behaved, worth a read, don't know if that stuff is avaliable online. We don't learn. 37144[/snapback] Yeah, you're right. Conformity is a huge driving force too. It has been scientifically proven that people will do terrible things as part of a group under peer pressure, or when ordered to by someone in authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Maybe something has been lost in translation, you need German as your first language to feel emphatic about him. But yes, just look at the state of him. He was a complete tit and I can't help thinking I would never be swayed by him, whatever my plight. This is fundamentally against my beliefs though, it has to be said (i.e. I believe people are fundamentally the same so it could have happened here). 36857[/snapback] Or maybe it's easier than we'd like to think to turn people into fucking savages. Orwell wrote a nice piece in the Observer at the time of the liberation of Paris on how the liberated behaved, worth a read, don't know if that stuff is avaliable online. We don't learn. 37144[/snapback] Yeah, you're right. Conformity is a huge driving force too. It has been scientifically proven that people will do terrible things as part of a group under peer pressure, or when ordered to by someone in authority. 37150[/snapback] Like, say, invade Iraq for instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 (edited) It's worth remembering the circumstances that helped bring Hitler to power. Long before the Depression the German economy was in a dreadful state. The harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles led to hyper-inflation after more and more money was printed in order to repay the reparations demanded. Politically, people turned to the extreme left and right. Hitler and the Nazis then managed to get the second biggest political party banned after framing a mad Dutch bloke who was allegedly a member of the party in question (the Communists) with the burning down of the Reichstag. Edited September 22, 2005 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 It's worth remembering the circumstances that helped bring Hitler to power. Long before the Depression the German economy was in a dreadful state. The harsh terms of the Treaty of Versailles led to hyper-inflation after more and more money was printed in order to repay the reparations demanded. Politically, people turned to the extreme left and right. Hitler and the Nazis then managed to get the second biggest political party banned after framing a mad Dutch bloke who was allegedly a member of the party in question (the Communists) with the burning down of the Reichstag. 37160[/snapback] Yes - he gave them hope and he also said all the problems they had weren't THEIR fault - it was the Jews/French/American Capitalists fault Plus simple solutions People who say he looks like a tit should look at the other leaders around in the 20's and 30's - Chamberlain, Hoover, Stalin, lots of insignificant Frogs. Hitler was quite carefully dressed to look like a normal, but smart, bloke - no spats, no monocle, rarely a hat (quite revolutionary in the 30's), swish leather coat and a smart Merc He had a brilliant understanding of advertising, broadcasting and propaganda He obviously had "something" - EVERY story I've ever read about people meeting him say he had a magnetic personality (see Bill CLinton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9910 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Hitler's actions were dispicable, however he turned Germany around, from being a country where the economy was soo bad that you literally needed a suitcase full of money to buy a loaf of bread, to being a superpower. Which isn't completely true. Germany's economy wasn't the only one suffering in the 20s. The Great depression had a big effect on many nation's, but in Germany it was just adding to other problems. And Hitler didn't turned the economy around. Well, he did, but his spending was only boosting the economy at the start but later leading to a big cash crisis and to the need to acquire money in all possible ways. There is a famous book ("The meaning of Hitler") by Sebastian Haffner, a German exile who lived in the UK in the 30s and 40s and wrote for the Observer: . It's probably one of the best descriptions of Hitler, his successes and mistakes. Also recommendable by Haffner is "Germany, Jekyll and Hyde", that was published in 1940 in England. He convinced millions to follow his deluded dreams, so with that in mind, although he was thoroughly evil, you have to admit the bloke must have been an amazing leader. 36856[/snapback] Again I recommend to read Haffner. I think to try to understand why people were following Hitler you shouldn't judge him from todays perspective but try to see things from the perspective of people in the late 20s and 30s. As already explained above the economical problems are one of many reasons. The loss and the results of WWI were another with the majority in Germany the victims of a war they believed not being entirely responsible for. The treaty of Versailles wasn't only critiziced from the right but from more or less all political directions. And antisemitism had already a tradition not only in Germany but in most parts of Europe, Hitler's thoughts as written down in "Mein Kampf" can be lead back to popular politicians as Vienna's major of the early 20th century. Also Germany was in the aftermaths of WWI not the only nation were nationalism and facism was spreading, Italy and Romania being the other two major examples, but similar thoughts can be found more or less everywhere in Europe. The other thing that is quite difficult today is the effect of Hitler's speeches. They do not only lose in translation but also in time. To most Germans his barking voice sounds as irritating and ridiculous as to foreign people. Though, these are often just moments of long speeches. Hitler had a fantastic understanding of playing with his voice, e.g. lowering his tone in moments when he made crucial (and evil) points. The yelling Hitler isn't a real reflection of the original speaker. Though, it more fits todays picture of a lunatic dictator. Most people who met him and heard him speak describe him as charming and his voice as soft and gentle. So people didn't believe in trusting a mad man, but in somebody who was promising them nearly everything they were longing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thanks isegrim I must say I once saw a full speach of Hitler's when he was talking about Chamberlain - my german is poor but it was amazing - he was funny, he was witty, he threatened, he argued, he drew the audience right in very much a "modern" performance instead of the usual 1930's wooden delivery probably Churchill (who was actually a late 18th Century speaker in style) came anywhere close Just thank God there wasn'tT V at the time - Hitler would have been a natural................. PS hewas also kind to ladies, children and dogs of course.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22031 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thanks isegrim I must say I once saw a full speach of Hitler's when he was talking about Chamberlain - my german is poor but it was amazing - he was funny, he was witty, he threatened, he argued, he drew the audience right in very much a "modern" performance instead of the usual 1930's wooden delivery probably Churchill (who was actually a late 18th Century speaker in style) came anywhere close Just thank God there wasn'tT V at the time - Hitler would have been a natural................. PS hewas also kind to ladies, children and dogs of course.......... 37415[/snapback] Rob, just how old are you? Are you like one of those people from "Highlander"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thanks isegrim I must say I once saw a full speach of Hitler's when he was talking about Chamberlain - my german is poor but it was amazing - he was funny, he was witty, he threatened, he argued, he drew the audience right in very much a "modern" performance instead of the usual 1930's wooden delivery probably Churchill (who was actually a late 18th Century speaker in style) came anywhere close Just thank God there wasn'tT V at the time - Hitler would have been a natural................. PS hewas also kind to ladies, children and dogs of course.......... 37415[/snapback] Rob, just how old are you? Are you like one of those people from "Highlander"? 37487[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Sorry - when I said "saw" I meant a film of......... not in fact - although I have met a couple of people who attended rallies in Jormany in the good old days I also have somewhere in the loft a book I bought off a stall in Hanover around 1970 "Tag der Deutschen Polizei" - published in 1933 or 34 showing smiling coppers and with pictures & messages from Goering, Himmler ("the Jorman police will always be a shield against anti-social elements and criminals who will be severely dealt with" - so they knew what they were getting OK) and Hitler cheerfully stuffing a few RM into collecting boxes carried by police wives.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Thanks isegrim I must say I once saw a full speach of Hitler's when he was talking about Chamberlain - my german is poor but it was amazing - he was funny, he was witty, he threatened, he argued, he drew the audience right in very much a "modern" performance instead of the usual 1930's wooden delivery probably Churchill (who was actually a late 18th Century speaker in style) came anywhere close Just thank God there wasn'tT V at the time - Hitler would have been a natural................. PS hewas also kind to ladies, children and dogs of course.......... 37415[/snapback] Rob, just how old are you? Are you like one of those people from "Highlander"? 37487[/snapback] 37492[/snapback] WEAR A SKIRT???????????????????????????????? M' lawyers will be in contact................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut 205 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 When I was in France there was a documentary on Hitler saying how he wanted to invade Paris without force as he loved the city and wanted to use that as the capital of his own super power. The Israeli who I was watching it (who's also Jewish), popped up with, "Oh, so he was a kind man afterall". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 When I was in France there was a documentary on Hitler saying how he wanted to invade Paris without force as he loved the city and wanted to use that as the capital of his own super power. The Israeli who I was watching it (who's also Jewish), popped up with, "Oh, so he was a kind man afterall". 37504[/snapback] To be fair, the dropping of guns and running away would probably have helped him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 When I was in France there was a documentary on Hitler saying how he wanted to invade Paris without force as he loved the city and wanted to use that as the capital of his own super power. The Israeli who I was watching it (who's also Jewish), popped up with, "Oh, so he was a kind man afterall". 37504[/snapback] He was, he was...... people always said he was polite, kind and generous he was pretty much a vegetarian, and hated cruelty to animals Of course he also believed it was his duty to kill of all sorts of people History teaches us that not every tyrant froths at the mouth and plays the violin while burning down Rome J V Stalin was a great dancer, a very good singer and one hell of a party animal. he rembered people who had done him a good turn when he was down (unfortunately he was equally as good as rembering those who hadn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22031 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 When I was in France there was a documentary on Hitler saying how he wanted to invade Paris without force as he loved the city and wanted to use that as the capital of his own super power. The Israeli who I was watching it (who's also Jewish), popped up with, "Oh, so he was a kind man afterall". 37504[/snapback] He was, he was...... people always said he was polite, kind and generous he was pretty much a vegetarian, and hated cruelty to animals Of course he also believed it was his duty to kill of all sorts of people History teaches us that not every tyrant froths at the mouth and plays the violin while burning down Rome J V Stalin was a great dancer, a very good singer and one hell of a party animal. he rembered people who had done him a good turn when he was down (unfortunately he was equally as good as rembering those who hadn't) 37514[/snapback] Never trust a vegetarian, tea total, animal lover tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Totally agree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I'm a veggie you tossers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46175 Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I'm a veggie you tossers! 37522[/snapback] Ooooooo chase meh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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