Craig 6682 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I'm not being deliberately evasive - I'm stating facts! The only player who he has publically stated will never play for him again is Craig Bellamy. The rest are all press assumptions taken. Your original statement was that the radio stated: "since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness." That is simply not true! There's nothing in that statement about players falling out with managers. I am by no means a Souness fan, but for journalists to come out with bollocks like that is ludicrous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21626 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 I'm not being deliberately evasive - I'm stating facts! The only player who he has publically stated will never play for him again is Craig Bellamy. The rest are all press assumptions taken. Your original statement was that the radio stated: "since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness." That is simply not true! There's nothing in that statement about players falling out with managers. I am by no means a Souness fan, but for journalists to come out with bollocks like that is ludicrous! 38151[/snapback] How do you know it's not true? But you are being evasive of the main point, the evidence suggests he could start a fight in an empty room! Even his playing career and his health problems bear testament to his personality. He's from Edinburgh and is like a mate of my nomme de plume - Begbie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Really clutching at straws now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21626 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Really clutching at straws now... 38184[/snapback] Well can we just agree he has an old fashioned view of man-management, which may or may not be a bad thing. I'm happy to judge him on results tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Really clutching at straws now... 38184[/snapback] Well can we just agree he has an old fashioned view of man-management, which may or may not be a bad thing. I'm happy to judge him on results tbh. 38192[/snapback] Then do so... Last game we scored three and conceeded none on a ground where we've never won before in the Premiership with an injury-hit squad and playing the last quarter of the game with only 10 men. How do you judge Souness' management performance then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21626 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Really clutching at straws now... 38184[/snapback] Well can we just agree he has an old fashioned view of man-management, which may or may not be a bad thing. I'm happy to judge him on results tbh. 38192[/snapback] Then do so... Last game we scored three and conceeded none on a ground where we've never won before in the Premiership with an injury-hit squad and playing the last quarter of the game with only 10 men. How do you judge Souness' management performance then?? 38209[/snapback] Craig, when I say results, I don't mean one game, which could have been a fluke (and indeed if you saw the game, you could hardly disagree it wasn't). I mean over a sustained period of time. We have now had a year of Souness and notched up a mere 10 premiership wins. I'm sorry but that is shit. Things may improve with Owen et al, but I don't think they will by nearly enough. Unfortunately I have no choice but to wait and see. If at the end of all this, I am right and Souness has proved to be the poor manager he has been at all his other clubs, then that is a depressing thought. Two years of my football supporting life, all our lives, wasted, because the men in charge thought like you and were proved wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 We could have played absolute gash for 90 mins IMO, if we end up winning the game, I'm a happy man... It doesn't have to be pretty - it would be a bonus, agreed but it comes second best to actually getting the result. You go on about 2 years wasted, but I've supported this club for 23 years now and (with the exception of the old Division Two title) we haven't picked up a scrap of worthwhile silverware in that time... Do I count it as 23 years wasted?? Do I fuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) It was on the radio the other day that, since the premiership was formed, there have been 16 occasions when a manager has publically said a player will never play for him again. 12 of these occasions involved Souness.37873[/snapback] Can you name them?? 38083[/snapback] To start i'm guessing: Bellamy Robert Cole Yorke Dunn? There was at least one at Rangers can't remember name can't think of/care about the others! 38089[/snapback] Dunn, definitely. And Todd is correct too. Graham Roberts is the Rangers player. As you say further down, either way it's a ridiculous way for a manager to go on, and the rose tinted specs © brigade are still extremely reluctant to put money where their mouths are ..... They have actually convinced themselves Souness is right to alienate all these players.. hmmm it will be interesting to hear the excuses of Gemmil particularly, when they are proved wrong ........ Edited September 23, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 We could have played absolute gash for 90 mins IMO, if we end up winning the game, I'm a happy man... It doesn't have to be pretty - it would be a bonus, agreed but it comes second best to actually getting the result. You go on about 2 years wasted, but I've supported this club for 23 years now and (with the exception of the old Division Two title) we haven't picked up a scrap of worthwhile silverware in that time... Do I count it as 23 years wasted?? Do I fuck! 38221[/snapback] Now thats a fairly commentable statement Craig. Because I'm sure you are intelligent enough to realise that good teams don't play like that, they dominate possession and dictate the pace of the majority of games, and so if you want to be a good team you have to make that type of performance on a consistent basis your aim ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 If it's a case of you can't recall the names then I'm surprised you didn't take closer notice seeing as it was discussing our current manager... If it's a case of numbers mentioned but no names, then frankly that's shite journalism! 38098[/snapback] It was the latter, but it was actually set as a quiz question! Anyway, without going into the specifics, would you agree that Souness has fallen out with more players than any other manager in the premiership? Yes or no? 38108[/snapback] As many as Gullit?? 38111[/snapback] Yes or no? Gullit is probably the second worst manager for falling out with playing staff. You weren't upset when he was booted out, were you? 38118[/snapback] Well technically he wasn't booted out..... But I think it was for the good of the club that he left. I don't think Gullit wasn't malicious, I think he just totally mis-understood the size of the task at SJP and the influence that the fans had... As for your yes or no question, I won't answer that as I don't know enough information. It's reported in the press that he fell out with players (Todd, Dunn, Cole, Yorke) at Blackburn, but no word from Souness himself... It's reported that he fell out with Robert, even though it was the other way around.. The only player who I'm aware he's publically stated that he's fallen out with and they will never play for the club again is Craig Bellamy! Incidentally, how many players at Blackburn did Souness NOT fall out with?? Or does that not make good journalism? 38132[/snapback] He didn't fall out with the lad who relates the story about him trying to break Dwight Yorkes leg on the training ground, but that is because this player is one of the easy going type of lads. He does think Souness is a complete wanker though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 Really clutching at straws now... 38184[/snapback] Well can we just agree he has an old fashioned view of man-management, which may or may not be a bad thing. I'm happy to judge him on results tbh. 38192[/snapback] Then do so... Last game we scored three and conceeded none on a ground where we've never won before in the Premiership with an injury-hit squad and playing the last quarter of the game with only 10 men. How do you judge Souness' management performance then?? 38209[/snapback] Hadaway man Craig. Why are you forgotten all about last season just because we have won 1 match. Thats just plain daft and you know it. As for making excuses, I'll say it again. For 40m quid he should easily consolidate a SQUAD of players to stay in the European qualifying position he found us in. And more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakermaker 0 Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) but i wouldn't be too sure in saying the team he inherited were really 5th..we finished in that position but look at the end of that season and the start of the next(i'll do the mackem analogy again...2 years off the trot they finished 7th,most of there fans were dead happy the first season,but half way through the second season could see what was coming,even though they finished 7th again)have a good look at that season(brum,bolton at home early on,charlton even,2 away wins i think(???)culminating in the wolves debacle at home and no wins in the last 8 games.a world away,but technically only 1 & 2 places down from the previous 2 seasons. Edited September 23, 2005 by shakermaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 but i wouldn't be too sure in saying the team he inherited were really 5th..we finished in that position but look at the end of that season and the start of the next(i'll do the mackem analogy again...2 years off the trot they finished 7th,most of there fans were dead happy the first season,but half way through the second season could see what was coming,even though they finished 7th again)have a good look at that season(brum,bolton at home early on,charlton even,2 away wins i think(???)culminating in the wolves debacle at home and no wins in the last 8 games.a world away,but technically only 1 & 2 places down from the previous 2 seasons. 38302[/snapback] what do you mean, they weren't really 5th. They were 5th. You see, this is the type of statement put out, and not just by you, but also by Gemmill, Craig and others, which is without a shadow of doubt angling for an excuse for Souness fucking up the team rather than admit they are wrong. Our position as compared to the mackems has nothing to do with it. The mackems have not spent the last decade buying world class players, playing in europe, being runners up in the premiership twice, and playing in 2 FA Cup Finals. For me, its all about standards. Keegan found Newcastle United operating in a dead mans position, accepting not just 2nd best, but demanding the titles, the cups, and all the honours that go with it. So, why should you settle for less ? Souness is inferior. It's black and white, there is no grey. He isn't good enough. Neither are certain players at the club. Have you seen manu fans and the phrase "he is a good player but he isn't good enough for us "? This is the attitude we should deploy at Newcastle, and is the attitude that Keegan did. So. Souness is shite, he always has been and always will be. Despite being in the game for nearly 20 years as a "manager", he still has not put together a team anywhere near a top team, or a team that gets anywhere near the top quality team that Keegan gave us. This is our standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakermaker 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 and you are sounding like the mackems who said "we finished 7th again,nowts wrong,its about the position we were in,we see it totally differently. as you say about certain players at the club,i agree,every club will say that,but (on paper i know as we havent had a chance to put them together yet)we have a better 16 than last year IMHO..tell you something else to make you think..souness took his blackburn team from 1st div to 6th in prem(winning a silver pot along the way)..i'll agree he probably wont give us what keegan did(who will???)but to just shout "shite shite shite" all the time is a tad childish...most think he's brought in some good players,much better than even i expected and for some reason after that some wont even wait to see if it works. by the way...after dagleish,guillit,and robson,it's now too late for harking back to keegan,who if you remember left half way through a season where we never really came close(although finishing 2nd we never really challanged)and breaking the world record transfer fee . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Dunn, definitely. As far as I remember with Dunn, Souness said his social life was his biggest downfall, where is he now? constantly injured but always on the piss... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black&White 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 I thought it was a great result to get 3 points at Blackburn but for anybody to think Souness has now turned into a quality manager and is now going to play exciting attacking football and surging up the table is deluded. He should have allready been out on his arse for his record in the first 12 months of his managemant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 (edited) Dunn, definitely. As far as I remember with Dunn, Souness said his social life was his biggest downfall, where is he now? constantly injured but always on the piss... 38323[/snapback] aye but wouldn't his ex distract you a little bit like [he's had a serious injury though hasn't he ? ] Edited September 24, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 and you are sounding like the mackems who said "we finished 7th again,nowts wrong,its about the position we were in,we see it totally differently. as you say about certain players at the club,i agree,every club will say that,but (on paper i know as we havent had a chance to put them together yet)we have a better 16 than last year IMHO..tell you something else to make you think..souness took his blackburn team from 1st div to 6th in prem(winning a silver pot along the way)..i'll agree he probably wont give us what keegan did(who will???)but to just shout "shite shite shite" all the time is a tad childish...most think he's brought in some good players,much better than even i expected and for some reason after that some wont even wait to see if it works. by the way...after dagleish,guillit,and robson,it's now too late for harking back to keegan,who if you remember left half way through a season where we never really came close(although finishing 2nd we never really challanged)and breaking the world record transfer fee . 38322[/snapback] I know Keegan is now a long time ago although even the 2004-05 version has left a good set of players at Man City, heading upwards too, [don't kid yourself about Pearce, they would be where they are this morning if Keegan was there too IMO] but again, he set new standards, my point is simply that we must appoint a manager who we think will get us to that standard, or there is no point in appointing him. None whatsoever. To be fair to Shepherd, he thought Dalglish, Gullit and Bobby Robson were all capable of that, and there wasn't too many disagreeing voices at the time either, only with Souness. If you think back to Keegans last season, after the 5-0 win over manu, most people thought we would go on and make the breakthrough, I remember Andy Gray saying so in the aftermath of it on sky, and the psychological aspect of that win would be big. Unfortunately, it's obvious now that in the following few months the cracks widened that led to Keegan going, and it's a fact that when you get problems behind the scenes they do transmit themselves down to the players, that is when the challenge for the title died that year. When we were 5th in the league under Bobby Robson, the team was at a crossroads, the policy of buying top youngsters was clearly flawed although still with merits, but what it didn't need was wholesale changes like Souness has made, all we needed was a few good buys in the right areas to freshen things up, such as a central defender, a long term replacement for Shearer and yes a central midfield player in the mould of Rob Lee, like Parker IMO anyway. [Assuming we had also kept Solano, which was a foolish sale like Bellamy has been] And by this I mean to add to the quality players already at the club, not selling them and creating more holes to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 the 2004-05 version has left a good set of players at Man City, heading upwards too, [don't kid yourself about Pearce, they would be where they are this morning if Keegan was there too IMO]38352[/snapback] Think you must have bumped your head on this one Leazes... Citeh were in freefall, in the words at that time of my cousin who rates himself as one of the biggest Citeh supporters there is: "KK has to go, I now see what you're talking about when you say you're glad he's still not Newcastle's manager!" What Stuart Pearce has done there in a short space of time is unbelievable. And that includes them selling perhaps the brightest talent they've had for many years... If KK was still in charge, there's no way IMO they'd be where they are now. He did a hell of a job for us, agreed and turned us from a walking disaster to 'nearly champions' but that's all it was.....nearly. He knew himself he couldn't take us any further. The single-most best thing that KK did for this club was threaten to walk out after the Swindon game in March 1992. If he hadn't done that, he'd never have scared the shit out of Sir John Hall into dipping into his pocket, something which he had to follow up time and time again for fear of Kevin pulling the same stunt again. Fat Fred has done the same because ultimately, he wants to prove himself to be a better chairman than SJH was by bring in some silverware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 no offence, but your cousin may well be suffering from the same type of amnesia that grips some Newcastle fans, like those on here that supported Bellamy at the time he was instrumental in propelling a mid table team with no pace and creativity, into one which qualified for the Champions League in 4th place, and yes, briefly, until he himself Bellamy, was injured, entered the fringe of the title race, and 2nd place for a week or two, a fact which Alex Ferguson acknowledges. But now Bellamy has gone, have adopted their rose tinted specs © Tell him to look at where they were under Joe Royle, when Keegan took over, and where they were, including the calibre of player they had, when Keegan left. And there is his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Craig's cousin is right. Citeh were plummeting down the division during KKs last few months there. You must firmly be in the camp of "look what he has done for us in the past, we can't sack him now". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 (edited) "plummetting down the league". We were also told that Bobby Robsons team were starting a downward spiral too.... It may well be correct that, having announced he [Keegan] was going, the team and club lost their focus, this is what normally happens in this scenario. But, as Pearce has had the sense not to make wholesale changes to a good crop of players, [Keegans players], unlike fuckwit it's still essentially Keegans team and Pearce will live or die when he makes his own changes, in time. I'm not really in any camp, just stating the obvious that is proven by results. Souness is a fuckwit of a man-manager, who will never, ever, ever, build a team that will get the results for Newcastle United to match the one Keegan did. Tell him to look at where they were under Joe Royle, when Keegan took over, and where they were, including the calibre of player they had, when Keegan left. ... and this was the sentence I used, which you didn't really answer anyway .... Edited September 25, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Of course they are going to be better players there than there were when Royle was there ffs, they are two divisions higher. On the subject of it being Keegan's team, Man City are skint due to his extravagant and mostly failed spending spree and they have been forced to sell their best player. Had Pearce been given money you would have seen more wholesale changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 (edited) Of course they are going to be better players there than there were when Royle was there ffs, they are two divisions higher. On the subject of it being Keegan's team, Man City are skint due to his extravagant and mostly failed spending spree and they have been forced to sell their best player. Had Pearce been given money you would have seen more wholesale changes. 38677[/snapback] whats the odds in a short while we see Souness has put us in the same boat ? You seem to miss the point mate, Keegan took over from Royle when they were relegated from the premiership, dispirited and going nowhere. He left them firmly established back in the premiership, with a good set of players on the way upwards [or not to be pedantic, going upwards until he announced he was retiring] Edited September 25, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 ...and plummeting by the time he left. That was the point. Your bias towards Keegan is as bad as your hatred towards Souness. Of course it's conceivable that Souness could leave us in the same boat, I'm not disputing that but to say Pearce has done nothing what Keegan couldn't have done is insulting to Pearce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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