Allardyce has to stay

[Park Life 71]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

[Guest alex]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

[Park Life 71]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

 

 

 

 

 

I miss the sack-spend-sack-spend days.

[Guest alex]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

 

 

 

 

 

I miss the sack-spend-sack-spend days.

We're doing neither. Sack the board!

[Park Life 71]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

 

 

 

 

 

I miss the sack-spend-sack-spend days.

We're doing neither. Sack the board!

 

 

 

It makes me feel ill reading Mort's continuous barrage of sensible comments and observations.

[Guest alex]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

 

 

 

 

 

I miss the sack-spend-sack-spend days.

We're doing neither. Sack the board!

 

 

 

It makes me feel ill reading Mort's continuous barrage of sensible comments and observations.

It's quite the culture shock I'm sure.

[Park Life 71]

Stability is overrated by the meek.

Try posting something you didn't get on a piece of paper in your Harrod's Xmas crackers man

 

 

 

 

 

I miss the sack-spend-sack-spend days.

We're doing neither. Sack the board!

 

 

 

It makes me feel ill reading Mort's continuous barrage of sensible comments and observations.

It's quite the culture shock I'm sure.

 

We're going to end up like Everton unless someone starts adding things to Ashers morning cha.

[Big TRon 0]

"I've been here for three-and-a-half years and I've had four managers."

 

Is the most telling quote for me. Perhaps the players aren't performing for the club, rather than the managers. And who can blame them with this rate of turnover. If I got a new manager every time it came to my yearly review I'd get mighty pissed off with the company.

Neil Warnock was at Sheffield United for 8 years but that didn't make him a manager of Ferguson and Wenger's ability.

What a crock.

Sometime people are just average and they will never do any better than that.

Allardyce will always be more Warnock than Wenger regardless of how long he's given.

 

I agree. Never wanted him.

 

But he's here now and to make the best of it going forward can't you put aside your personal displeasure at some of the more tedious performances and give support to the man who's proven he can get even smaller clubs into Europe or thereabouts consistently, even with what little talent or flair he has?

We need to become more attractive to talented managers. 5 managers in less than 4 years doesn't tend to do that.

 

Is that an understatement or is that an understatement.

He deserves two years minimum. A period of stability, and a chance for the new owner and chairman to build on. If he can't further us up the table then get rid. But Jesus Christ, Allardyce has only been at the club two seconds and inherited a shit squad of players.

 

People need to get a grip of reality. We aren't "big". Bringing in someone like McLeish or Shearer now won't do a thing.

People need to wake up...

 

Bringing in a McLeish or Shearer would be pointless. I know it's early days but Ramos at Spurs looks like a better way to go. Wenger turned out to be an inspired choice as well, maybe in a year's time Ashley will be able to target a coach who is capable of providing football to compete at the highest level?

Edited January 4, 2008 by Big TRon

[Holden McGroin 6583]

I would have rather stuck by Roeder than Sam.

[Happy Face 29]

I would have rather stuck by Roeder than Sam.

 

I'll say nowt.

 

[Bombadil 0]

I would have rather stuck by Roeder than Sam.

 

I certainly wouldn't.

[Ken 119]

"I've been here for three-and-a-half years and I've had four managers."

 

Is the most telling quote for me. Perhaps the players aren't performing for the club, rather than the managers. And who can blame them with this rate of turnover. If I got a new manager every time it came to my yearly review I'd get mighty pissed off with the company.

Neil Warnock was at Sheffield United for 8 years but that didn't make him a manager of Ferguson and Wenger's ability.

What a crock.

Sometime people are just average and they will never do any better than that.

Allardyce will always be more Warnock than Wenger regardless of how long he's given.

 

I agree. Never wanted him.

 

But he's here now and to make the best of it going forward can't you put aside your personal displeasure at some of the more tedious performances and give support to the man who's proven he can get even smaller clubs into Europe or thereabouts consistently, even with what little talent or flair he has?

We need to become more attractive to talented managers. 5 managers in less than 4 years doesn't tend to do that.

 

Is that an understatement or is that an understatement.

He deserves two years minimum. A period of stability, and a chance for the new owner and chairman to build on. If he can't further us up the table then get rid. But Jesus Christ, Allardyce has only been at the club two seconds and inherited a shit squad of players.

 

People need to get a grip of reality. We aren't "big". Bringing in someone like McLeish or Shearer now won't do a thing.

People need to wake up...

 

Bringing in a McLeish or Shearer would be pointless. I know it's early days but Ramos at Spurs looks like a better way to go. Wenger turned out to be an inspired choice as well, maybe in a year's time Ashley will be able to target a coach who is capable of providing football to compete at the highest level?

Yes, maybe. But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

[Ketsbaia 0]

TRon, Sammy, Holden - Fuck off. Cheers

 

Funnily enough I heard from a reliable source that Butt isn't 100% happy with Allardyce so i'm very surprised he's came out and said this. Either i've been lied to or he's acting the consummate professional.

[Holden McGroin 6583]

TRon, Sammy, Holden - Fuck off. Cheers

 

Funnily enough I heard from a reliable source that Butt isn't 100% happy with Allardyce so i'm very surprised he's came out and said this. Either i've been lied to or he's acting the consummate professional.

 

I'm giving him a chance and i'll be interested how things develop. Cant see him eventually turning us into a top 4 team - which ultimately we should be aiming for.

[Big TRon 0]

"I've been here for three-and-a-half years and I've had four managers."

 

Is the most telling quote for me. Perhaps the players aren't performing for the club, rather than the managers. And who can blame them with this rate of turnover. If I got a new manager every time it came to my yearly review I'd get mighty pissed off with the company.

Neil Warnock was at Sheffield United for 8 years but that didn't make him a manager of Ferguson and Wenger's ability.

What a crock.

Sometime people are just average and they will never do any better than that.

Allardyce will always be more Warnock than Wenger regardless of how long he's given.

 

I agree. Never wanted him.

 

But he's here now and to make the best of it going forward can't you put aside your personal displeasure at some of the more tedious performances and give support to the man who's proven he can get even smaller clubs into Europe or thereabouts consistently, even with what little talent or flair he has?

We need to become more attractive to talented managers. 5 managers in less than 4 years doesn't tend to do that.

 

Is that an understatement or is that an understatement.

He deserves two years minimum. A period of stability, and a chance for the new owner and chairman to build on. If he can't further us up the table then get rid. But Jesus Christ, Allardyce has only been at the club two seconds and inherited a shit squad of players.

 

People need to get a grip of reality. We aren't "big". Bringing in someone like McLeish or Shearer now won't do a thing.

People need to wake up...

 

Bringing in a McLeish or Shearer would be pointless. I know it's early days but Ramos at Spurs looks like a better way to go. Wenger turned out to be an inspired choice as well, maybe in a year's time Ashley will be able to target a coach who is capable of providing football to compete at the highest level?

Yes, maybe. But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Managers won't be put off coming here just because the guy before that was sacked for doing poorly. Anyone worth his salt will think "I could do better " especially if they have a clear idea of what makes a potentially good side. By all means, let Sam have time, but the fact that he's managed to make a reasonable squad look clueless doesn't fill me with hope.

[Ketsbaia 0]

TRon, Sammy, Holden - Fuck off. Cheers

 

Funnily enough I heard from a reliable source that Butt isn't 100% happy with Allardyce so i'm very surprised he's came out and said this. Either i've been lied to or he's acting the consummate professional.

 

I'm giving him a chance and i'll be interested how things develop. Cant see him eventually turning us into a top 4 team - which ultimately we should be aiming for.

 

Even if he wont get us there eventually, we need to show some faith in him so when he's taken us as far as possible we can go out and get someone who won't look at our past record of managerial hirings and firings and be scared off.

[sammynb 3355]

But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Sorry Ken but I have to disagree, Allardyce doesn't have the skill ot tactics to turn it around. Just watch the man chew gum if you want to confirm how little is actually going on between his ears.

He will always only be a mid table obscurity manager nothing more.

You commented in your previous post that he inherited a shit squad, he may have to some degree (nothing like Roeder did from Souness) but since taking over he has brought in a lot of new players, got rid of the last of the shite and strengthened the squad in numbers.

Problem is it's the player he brought to the club that are generally under performing, so he can't blame anyone but himself.

And to be honest I think giving him and opportunity to spend money on his idea of better players is a waste because he doesn't have the ability to actually find them, let alone fit them into his team of tryers!

Mort and Ashley after looking at his 3 x 6m players must be shitting themselves waiting for his hit list filled with huff and puff.

[Ken 119]

"I've been here for three-and-a-half years and I've had four managers."

 

Is the most telling quote for me. Perhaps the players aren't performing for the club, rather than the managers. And who can blame them with this rate of turnover. If I got a new manager every time it came to my yearly review I'd get mighty pissed off with the company.

Neil Warnock was at Sheffield United for 8 years but that didn't make him a manager of Ferguson and Wenger's ability.

What a crock.

Sometime people are just average and they will never do any better than that.

Allardyce will always be more Warnock than Wenger regardless of how long he's given.

 

I agree. Never wanted him.

 

But he's here now and to make the best of it going forward can't you put aside your personal displeasure at some of the more tedious performances and give support to the man who's proven he can get even smaller clubs into Europe or thereabouts consistently, even with what little talent or flair he has?

We need to become more attractive to talented managers. 5 managers in less than 4 years doesn't tend to do that.

 

Is that an understatement or is that an understatement.

He deserves two years minimum. A period of stability, and a chance for the new owner and chairman to build on. If he can't further us up the table then get rid. But Jesus Christ, Allardyce has only been at the club two seconds and inherited a shit squad of players.

 

People need to get a grip of reality. We aren't "big". Bringing in someone like McLeish or Shearer now won't do a thing.

People need to wake up...

 

Bringing in a McLeish or Shearer would be pointless. I know it's early days but Ramos at Spurs looks like a better way to go. Wenger turned out to be an inspired choice as well, maybe in a year's time Ashley will be able to target a coach who is capable of providing football to compete at the highest level?

Yes, maybe. But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Managers won't be put off coming here just because the guy before that was sacked for doing poorly. Anyone worth his salt will think "I could do better " especially if they have a clear idea of what makes a potentially good side. By all means, let Sam have time, but the fact that he's managed to make a reasonable squad look clueless doesn't fill me with hope.

I think managers would be put off because being manager of NUFC is more high pressure than most other clubs. It is unenviable...just like being manager of England.

 

Managers taking a look at our recent record would take notice of the fact most of our managers (some justified, some certainly not) got no time to implement true change.

There aren't many managers "worth their salt" available at the moment. That includes Houllier.

 

A reasonable squad?.?

Reasonable meaning non-relegation battlers - yes I concur.

But anything above is arguable.

[Ketsbaia 0]

But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Sorry Ken but I have to disagree, Allardyce doesn't have the skill ot tactics to turn it around. Just watch the man chew gum if you want to confirm how little is actually going on between his ears.

He will always only be a mid table obscurity manager nothing more.

You commented in your previous post that he inherited a shit squad, he may have to some degree (nothing like Roeder did from Souness) but since taking over he has brought in a lot of new players, got rid of the last of the shite and strengthened the squad in numbers.

Problem is it's the player he brought to the club that are generally under performing, so he can't blame anyone but himself.

And to be honest I think giving him and opportunity to spend money on his idea of better players is a waste because he doesn't have the ability to actually find them, let alone fit them into his team of tryers!

Mort and Ashley after looking at his 3 x 6m players must be shitting themselves waiting for his hit list filled with huff and puff.

 

But he wasn't when he resigned last year, or the year before that, or in 2005 or to lesser extent 2004.

[sammynb 3355]

TRon, Sammy, Holden - Fuck off. Cheers

 

Funnily enough I heard from a reliable source that Butt isn't 100% happy with Allardyce so i'm very surprised he's came out and said this. Either i've been lied to or he's acting the consummate professional.

 

I'm giving him a chance and i'll be interested how things develop. Cant see him eventually turning us into a top 4 team - which ultimately we should be aiming for.

 

Even if he wont get us there eventually, we need to show some faith in him so when he's taken us as far as possible we can go out and get someone who won't look at our past record of managerial hirings and firings and be scared off.

 

Only if you, skol you big Shola like twat and Allardyce come with us

I think the managerial history argument is a crock.

Any potential manager would know the board has changed, the owner has changed and you can't base the club now on how it was run under Shepherd.

And Allardyce is the final ounce of proof of the incompetence of the previous board.

[Big TRon 0]

"I've been here for three-and-a-half years and I've had four managers."

 

Is the most telling quote for me. Perhaps the players aren't performing for the club, rather than the managers. And who can blame them with this rate of turnover. If I got a new manager every time it came to my yearly review I'd get mighty pissed off with the company.

Neil Warnock was at Sheffield United for 8 years but that didn't make him a manager of Ferguson and Wenger's ability.

What a crock.

Sometime people are just average and they will never do any better than that.

Allardyce will always be more Warnock than Wenger regardless of how long he's given.

 

I agree. Never wanted him.

 

But he's here now and to make the best of it going forward can't you put aside your personal displeasure at some of the more tedious performances and give support to the man who's proven he can get even smaller clubs into Europe or thereabouts consistently, even with what little talent or flair he has?

We need to become more attractive to talented managers. 5 managers in less than 4 years doesn't tend to do that.

 

Is that an understatement or is that an understatement.

He deserves two years minimum. A period of stability, and a chance for the new owner and chairman to build on. If he can't further us up the table then get rid. But Jesus Christ, Allardyce has only been at the club two seconds and inherited a shit squad of players.

 

People need to get a grip of reality. We aren't "big". Bringing in someone like McLeish or Shearer now won't do a thing.

People need to wake up...

 

Bringing in a McLeish or Shearer would be pointless. I know it's early days but Ramos at Spurs looks like a better way to go. Wenger turned out to be an inspired choice as well, maybe in a year's time Ashley will be able to target a coach who is capable of providing football to compete at the highest level?

Yes, maybe. But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Managers won't be put off coming here just because the guy before that was sacked for doing poorly. Anyone worth his salt will think "I could do better " especially if they have a clear idea of what makes a potentially good side. By all means, let Sam have time, but the fact that he's managed to make a reasonable squad look clueless doesn't fill me with hope.

I think managers would be put off because being manager of NUFC is more high pressure than most other clubs. It is unenviable...just like being manager of England.

 

Managers taking a look at our recent record would take notice of the fact most of our managers (some justified, some certainly not) got no time to implement true change.

There aren't many managers "worth their salt" available at the moment. That includes Houllier.

 

A reasonable squad?.?

Reasonable meaning non-relegation battlers - yes I concur.

But anything above is arguable.

 

That squad might not be capable of challenging the top 6 but they shouldn't be struggling against Derby, Sunderland and the rest of the dross who are walking away with undreamed of points. It's not exactly making the best of your resources in my view.

[David Kelly 1245]

I would think any manager no matter how confident they are in their own ability would be put off by the constant sackings that have been going on here for the past few years and if Allardyce was sacked this season it would make it much worse.

You look at the squad that was available at the start of the season and the net amount of money Allardyce has had to work with and anyone remotely impartial would have to say that it would be an incredibly difficult job to turn us around this season. A prospective manager looking at that would have to say that the same things that have happened to Allardyce (in terms of things not working out right away) could have easily happened to them too. And if they do they only have six months to get it right then it's on to the next man.

That would certainly put me off a job I was being offered.

 

As bad as it is at the moment I don't think there is anything else we can do but back manager until the end of the season. If at that time things aren't showing any sign of moving forward I would certainly be very uncomfortable providing significant funds if I were Ashley and I think that would necessitate making a change. Because this team is going to need some major investment if it's going to move to where we need it to be.

[Ken 119]

But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Sorry Ken but I have to disagree, Allardyce doesn't have the skill ot tactics to turn it around. Just watch the man chew gum if you want to confirm how little is actually going on between his ears.

He will always only be a mid table obscurity manager nothing more.

You commented in your previous post that he inherited a shit squad, he may have to some degree (nothing like Roeder did from Souness) but since taking over he has brought in a lot of new players, got rid of the last of the shite and strengthened the squad in numbers.

Problem is it's the player he brought to the club that are generally under performing, so he can't blame anyone but himself.

And to be honest I think giving him and opportunity to spend money on his idea of better players is a waste because he doesn't have the ability to actually find them, let alone fit them into his team of tryers!

Mort and Ashley after looking at his 3 x 6m players must be shitting themselves waiting for his hit list filled with huff and puff.

Chewing gum or not chewing gum means bugger all to me.

Allardyce is a big believer in preparation, and the fact the team don't look prepared very often to me suggests the squad of players are unfamiliar with this.

 

To say he is only a mid table manager is an opinion, and it is an opinion which is unjustified at this point in time.

 

I'm glad you at least agree that Allardyce inherited a shit squad of players, because that's exactly what he did. And how much did he spend again?.?

That's right it was about £12 million. That's a pittance comparing to what other clubs spent. You get what you pay for, but sometimes you get the odd gem. Allardyce gambled a bit but it didn't pay off. He didn't get a rough diamond, not even a crystal quartz. Beye, Cacapa, Viduka, Faye and to a much lesser extent Smith have had varied success, whilst others have failed thus far.

But that's happened to Wenger, Sir Alex, Sir Bobby, Moyes etc etc.

You win some you lose some.

 

I support the man. But he needs to bring in some creativity to the squad. If he doesn't than I'm afraid he's just about lost me for good...

[sammynb 3355]

But maybe in a year's time Allardyce would have turned things around?

I don't know that, nobody knows that, but unless he's given a chance what chance has the reputation that our club has can be a positive one to others?

 

No chance. Therein lies the quandary that many cannot fathom.

 

Sorry Ken but I have to disagree, Allardyce doesn't have the skill ot tactics to turn it around. Just watch the man chew gum if you want to confirm how little is actually going on between his ears.

He will always only be a mid table obscurity manager nothing more.

You commented in your previous post that he inherited a shit squad, he may have to some degree (nothing like Roeder did from Souness) but since taking over he has brought in a lot of new players, got rid of the last of the shite and strengthened the squad in numbers.

Problem is it's the player he brought to the club that are generally under performing, so he can't blame anyone but himself.

And to be honest I think giving him and opportunity to spend money on his idea of better players is a waste because he doesn't have the ability to actually find them, let alone fit them into his team of tryers!

Mort and Ashley after looking at his 3 x 6m players must be shitting themselves waiting for his hit list filled with huff and puff.

 

But he wasn't when he resigned last year, or the year before that, or in 2005 or to lesser extent 2004.

 

Tough call and I admit I'd be happy if he could get us to any of the following positions this season but I'd argue 7th isn't good enough for Newcastle in the long run.

06/07 - 7th 56 points GD -4

05/06 - 8th 56 points GD +8

04/05 - 6th 58 points GD +5 (I'll give you this season)

03/04 - 8th 53 points GD -8

 

I realise this does nothing to support my argument to get rid of the clueless idiot but an interesting fact for Bolton is if you look at their points won from Jan 1 in the last season you get:

06/07 16 points

05/06 25 points

04/05 35 points!

03/04 30 points.

 

Regardless I still don't have confidence in him as a manager.

Ken to answer your available manager question:

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...st&p=415831

[sammynb 3355]

Allardyce is a big believer in preparation, and the fact the team don't look prepared very often to me suggests the squad of players are unfamiliar with this.

 

To say he is only a mid table manager is an opinion, and it is an opinion which is unjustified at this point in time.

 

I'm glad you at least agree that Allardyce inherited a shit squad of players, because that's exactly what he did. And how much did he spend again?.?

That's right it was about £12 million. That's a pittance comparing to what other clubs spent. You get what you pay for, but sometimes you get the odd gem. Allardyce gambled a bit but it didn't pay off. He didn't get a rough diamond, not even a crystal quartz. Beye, Cacapa, Viduka, Faye and to a much lesser extent Smith have had varied success, whilst others have failed thus far.

But that's happened to Wenger, Sir Alex, Sir Bobby, Moyes etc etc.

You win some you lose some.

 

I support the man. But he needs to bring in some creativity to the squad. If he doesn't than I'm afraid he's just about lost me for good...

 

See that's why I don't believe he can turn it around.

It's a known fact he likes to prepare everything to the minute detail. And we just don't look like that is happening, our set pieces are a classic example! So where has it all gone wrong?

 

Allardyce actually spent upwards of 20m. If you don't count what he got for those going out there was 3 x 6 for Enrique, Smith and Barton plus Faye, Beye and Rozy cost us 2m each and there is no doubt Viduka and Cacapa wanted sign on fees, so at a guess a 1m for the two. That's roughly 25m.

 

Just get over it and join us on the Sam out wagon now, there is no creativity coming in unless the club hires another PR manager

Edited January 4, 2008 by sammynb