Scottish Mag 3 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Taking a team that had finished 5th in the league and got to a European semi final to a team playing some of the most shite football seen at St James Park in recent year, finishing not a kick in the arse off a relegation battle and having another shocking start to this year is not acceptable for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3892 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Taking a team that had finished 5th in the league and got to a European semi final to a team playing some of the most shite football seen at St James Park in recent year, finishing not a kick in the arse off a relegation battle and having another shocking start to this year is not acceptable for me.. 35352[/snapback] Well said fellow Scotsman (Although I am a naturalised Scot having married my way into the country) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15524 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Scotland is a country now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Scotland is a country now? 35402[/snapback] More of a massive scale Sangat-style holding tank for people wanting to get into England from the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 You have to look at performances first and foremost, and for the last year or so (Robson included in this) we've been staggering around like the drunken uncle at a wedding. I'm not saying we need to be the entertainers totally playing teams off the park, but some sort of coherent attacking side would do me. We're not that bad as a team unit when defending, but when we're asked to attack as one we look a bit lost imo. Injuries? Bad signings? Bad Coaching? Don't know, but if we continue to play as we have done at the start of this season then we'll be scrapping around the bottom somewhere. Great win yesterday, was chuffed to bits, but I couldn't help feel we didn't deserve it, which is no way for a football fan to feel after a victory (see Bolton). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Precisely SLP.... My over-riding point is that we didn't suddenly start becoming crap when Souness took over....it had started before then. For me, the rot started when we lost to Partizan Belgrade on penalties. All throughout that season there was piss-poor performances along the way. The home match against Wolves springs immediately to mind - we can't, however much we want to, blame that on Souness.... You point out that he has spent £50m, but most of that has been during this summer and he has yet been able to play all £50m worth in one team. If once he has for a few games, he's still not getting right, THEN you can criticise him for spending all that money without the desired return... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Precisely SLP.... My over-riding point is that we didn't suddenly start becoming crap when Souness took over....it had started before then. For me, the rot started when we lost to Partizan Belgrade on penalties. All throughout that season there was piss-poor performances along the way. The home match against Wolves springs immediately to mind - we can't, however much we want to, blame that on Souness.... You point out that he has spent £50m, but most of that has been during this summer and he has yet been able to play all £50m worth in one team. If once he has for a few games, he's still not getting right, THEN you can criticise him for spending all that money without the desired return... 35461[/snapback] Fantastic. So until he can play every player he has signed in the same team, which may of course never happen, he is beyond criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Not at all, you've complete mis-read the point (or was that deliberate). That was in reference to the money he has spent.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Not at all, you've complete mis-read the point (or was that deliberate). That was in reference to the money he has spent.... 35473[/snapback] Nope, I've read it again and I don't see how I've misread or misconstrued you. Please tell me how I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Not at all, you've complete mis-read the point (or was that deliberate). That was in reference to the money he has spent.... 35473[/snapback] Nope, I've read it again and I don't see how I've misread or misconstrued you. Please tell me how I have. 35479[/snapback] You point out that he has spent £50m, but most of that has been during this summer and he has yet been able to play all £50m worth in one team. If once he has for a few games, he's still not getting right, THEN you can criticise him for spending all that money without the desired return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21614 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Not at all, you've complete mis-read the point (or was that deliberate). That was in reference to the money he has spent.... 35473[/snapback] Nope, I've read it again and I don't see how I've misread or misconstrued you. Please tell me how I have. 35479[/snapback] You point out that he has spent £50m, but most of that has been during this summer and he has yet been able to play all £50m worth in one team. If once he has for a few games, he's still not getting right, THEN you can criticise him for spending all that money without the desired return 35481[/snapback] Oh OK, interesting. So for instance, if Luque doesn't play for 3 months, we can't criticise him because he hasn't had a full strengh team. And then if Luque comes back but Owen is out, we can't criticise him....... Face it, they're not going to get on the same team that often. I think it is perfectly fair to judge him now, if the squad is lacking this is at least partly his fault is it not? Also last winters signings - Boumsong, Babayaro, and Faye are also looking suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 for those who back souness,what position would you feel justified souness's managership.or for the 1 or 2 anti-sounesss's,at what position would you admit he's done ok ? 34953[/snapback] I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you are talking about final league position, then I would say, considering the money he has spent, 4th place or higher must be achieved. I'll be amazed if that happens like. 35110[/snapback] Totally agree, but then some of us warned that some would dilute standards enabling them to call clueless a "success" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Not at all, you've complete mis-read the point (or was that deliberate). That was in reference to the money he has spent.... 35473[/snapback] Nope, I've read it again and I don't see how I've misread or misconstrued you. Please tell me how I have. 35479[/snapback] You point out that he has spent £50m, but most of that has been during this summer and he has yet been able to play all £50m worth in one team. If once he has for a few games, he's still not getting right, THEN you can criticise him for spending all that money without the desired return 35481[/snapback] Oh OK, interesting. So for instance, if Luque doesn't play for 3 months, we can't criticise him because he hasn't had a full strengh team. And then if Luque comes back but Owen is out, we can't criticise him....... Face it, they're not going to get on the same team that often. I think it is perfectly fair to judge him now, if the squad is lacking this is at least partly his fault is it not? Also last winters signings - Boumsong, Babayaro, and Faye are also looking suspect. 35489[/snapback] Craig, are you saying that he can't be expected to take over an established top 5 club, spend 40-50m quid and leave himself with a SQUAD to at least equal what he walked into ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Not at all.... I was being specific. The point was made that £50m has been spent and we've not seen an improvement as a result.. I was merely saying that a high proportion of that cost has not yet had the opportunity together... Additionally, I don't believe we were a 'top 5 club' when he took over. I think we were very lucky to finish where we did the previous season and if those teams just below us had been on form, we wouldn't have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Villa nearly pipped us the season we came 5th ffs. We were clearly in decline with zero discipline at the club. If Souness doesn't deliver this season he will, quite correctly be sacked, but suggest everything was 'rosy in the garden' when Robson was sacked is ridiculous. Personally, I blame Shepherd for not having the balls to sack Robson in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 The rot had most certainly set in, and for whatever reason Robson had the same team who performed CL heroics playing badly week after week. Maybe the players are to blame for that, they got complacent, they took the piss out of Robson's trust, who knows. The worry for me is that we've been a a poor attacking team unit for some time, it started under Robson and it's continued under Souness. You can pack the team full of fantastic players, but if you play shit football you get shit results (see Real Madrid this season). We need something to click, soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckypierre 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) those team sthat were below us when we finished 5th are still shit yet we plummet. The quality in the premiership is appalling, says it all about how far we've dropped. I'd agree that as an attacking force we were in decline but I'd say that was tied in to the decline of Shearer, as our fortunes still are. Robson knew that and knew he needed replacing..we all know what happened Edited September 20, 2005 by luckypierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Villa nearly pipped us the season we came 5th ffs. We were clearly in decline with zero discipline at the club. If Souness doesn't deliver this season he will, quite correctly be sacked, but suggest everything was 'rosy in the garden' when Robson was sacked is ridiculous. Personally, I blame Shepherd for not having the balls to sack Robson in the summer. 35775[/snapback] no it wasn't, of course this is right, you don't change your manager if you are happy with what you have. We were still 5th though, and dived down the league by quite a distance afterwards. The summer is also of course, the best time to make a change but if you get the right man it doesn't matter too much when you do it really. The quality in the premiership is appalling, says it all about how far we've dropped. I'd agree that as an attacking force we were in decline but I'd say that was tied in to the decline of Shearer, as our fortunes still are. Lot of truth in the comment about Shearer there. And also I agree the standard in the premiership is not so good as it was. On one hand we have many more "more technical foreigners" but on the other hand we have more occasions when players seem to just go through the motions ie the mental attitude has changed too. Take your pick. For me, back in the 70's or whenever, football was more enjoyable than now and players gave more good committed performances than now, but that is also to do with the fact that they are rich [the top ones anyway] Even going back a decade, the team we had at Newcastle would still be challenging for the title, despite some places I have read where it is claimed that the standard has "continued to improve". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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