Jimbo 175 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? Says the man who started an Allardyce Out thread after fifteen games of his reign. Thankfully the board aren't so rash. I'd say the board sacked Robson for not instantly being successful that season btw. If he was good enough to stay at the end of the previous season then they should have persisted with him through that patch of poor form. The point I'm making is that we HAVEN'T got a track record of sacking managers "too soon", and suggestion that no top manager would come to us because of our "reputation" is mad, because in my view we have no reputation, Robson had near on 5 years in charge, and finished in the bottom half of the table in his first 2 seasons, so I can't see how he was sacked too soon for not being instantly successful. I see what you're saying but Robson and Gullit, although at the club for five years and one year respectively, were sacked for not being instantly succesful in a particular season, which still demonstrates impatience. The case of Robson could be more worrying for potential managers, as it showed the board's disregard for 3 good seasons in the face of an early season wobble. I disagree, most, I'm sure would agree Robson stayed too long, he'd clearly lost the plot and although the vast majority were sad to see the old boy go, those same people knew he had to go and as for Gullit, he quit after admiting that he'd fucked up, and I'm sure you're not advocating he should have been given more time had he not resigned. I fail to see a track record of unresonably sacking managers too soon at St James' Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? Says the man who started an Allardyce Out thread after fifteen games of his reign. Thankfully the board aren't so rash. I'd say the board sacked Robson for not instantly being successful that season btw. If he was good enough to stay at the end of the previous season then they should have persisted with him through that patch of poor form. The point I'm making is that we HAVEN'T got a track record of sacking managers "too soon", and suggestion that no top manager would come to us because of our "reputation" is mad, because in my view we have no reputation, Robson had near on 5 years in charge, and finished in the bottom half of the table in his first 2 seasons, so I can't see how he was sacked too soon for not being instantly successful. I see what you're saying but Robson and Gullit, although at the club for five years and one year respectively, were sacked for not being instantly succesful in a particular season, which still demonstrates impatience. The case of Robson could be more worrying for potential managers, as it showed the board's disregard for 3 good seasons in the face of an early season wobble. I disagree, most, I'm sure would agree Robson stayed too long, he'd clearly lost the plot and although the vast majority were sad to see the old boy go, those same people knew he had to go and as for Gullit, he quit after admiting that he'd fucked up, and I'm sure you're not advocating he should have been given more time had he not resigned. I fail to see a track record of unresonably sacking managers too soon at St James' Park I'm talking about Robson being sacked in the context of that season - he wasn't sacked for the record of the previous five years, he was sacked for the team's poor performance over the course of 5 or however many games it was - i.e. for not being instantly successful that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? Says the man who started an Allardyce Out thread after fifteen games of his reign. Thankfully the board aren't so rash. I'd say the board sacked Robson for not instantly being successful that season btw. If he was good enough to stay at the end of the previous season then they should have persisted with him through that patch of poor form. The point I'm making is that we HAVEN'T got a track record of sacking managers "too soon", and suggestion that no top manager would come to us because of our "reputation" is mad, because in my view we have no reputation, Robson had near on 5 years in charge, and finished in the bottom half of the table in his first 2 seasons, so I can't see how he was sacked too soon for not being instantly successful. I see what you're saying but Robson and Gullit, although at the club for five years and one year respectively, were sacked for not being instantly succesful in a particular season, which still demonstrates impatience. The case of Robson could be more worrying for potential managers, as it showed the board's disregard for 3 good seasons in the face of an early season wobble. I disagree, most, I'm sure would agree Robson stayed too long, he'd clearly lost the plot and although the vast majority were sad to see the old boy go, those same people knew he had to go and as for Gullit, he quit after admiting that he'd fucked up, and I'm sure you're not advocating he should have been given more time had he not resigned. I fail to see a track record of unresonably sacking managers too soon at St James' Park I'm talking about Robson being sacked in the context of that season - he wasn't sacked for the record of the previous five years, he was sacked for the team's poor performance over the course of 5 or however many games it was - i.e. for not being instantly successful that season. Hardly a track record likely to put off a top class manager from taking the job is it ? The only track record we've aquired is that of appointing the wrong manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? Says the man who started an Allardyce Out thread after fifteen games of his reign. Thankfully the board aren't so rash. I'd say the board sacked Robson for not instantly being successful that season btw. If he was good enough to stay at the end of the previous season then they should have persisted with him through that patch of poor form. The point I'm making is that we HAVEN'T got a track record of sacking managers "too soon", and suggestion that no top manager would come to us because of our "reputation" is mad, because in my view we have no reputation, Robson had near on 5 years in charge, and finished in the bottom half of the table in his first 2 seasons, so I can't see how he was sacked too soon for not being instantly successful. I see what you're saying but Robson and Gullit, although at the club for five years and one year respectively, were sacked for not being instantly succesful in a particular season, which still demonstrates impatience. The case of Robson could be more worrying for potential managers, as it showed the board's disregard for 3 good seasons in the face of an early season wobble. I disagree, most, I'm sure would agree Robson stayed too long, he'd clearly lost the plot and although the vast majority were sad to see the old boy go, those same people knew he had to go and as for Gullit, he quit after admiting that he'd fucked up, and I'm sure you're not advocating he should have been given more time had he not resigned. I fail to see a track record of unresonably sacking managers too soon at St James' Park I'm talking about Robson being sacked in the context of that season - he wasn't sacked for the record of the previous five years, he was sacked for the team's poor performance over the course of 5 or however many games it was - i.e. for not being instantly successful that season. Hardly a track record likely to put off a top class manager from taking the job is it ? The only track record we've aquired is that of appointing the wrong manager. Not in isolation, but add it to the sacking of Gullit for similar reasons and the sacking of Dalglish so early on and you can't really blame people for percieveing us as having itchy trigger fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser 1321 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Bobby should never have been sacked, an agreement should have been made behind closed doors for him to help appoint his successor and for him to move upstairs in an ambassador/advisory role. The whole thing was a disgrace. Sure there were problems but we've had much bigger problems in comparison since. The blame must solely lie with the fat controller who made a mess of the whole situation. Its still rankles with me the way in which Bobby was axed and then someone who was not fit to clean his shoes taking over in his place. Sir Bob is exactly right about the place going to ratshit since he left and we have been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 He needed to go tbh. That's true, but upstairs not out the door, and certainly not the disgraceful way it was carried out. If we had lost the first 4 games of the season then maybe you could see a little justification in Bobby being sacked, but we didn't, and that's what made it a despicable action. It reeked of a prior plan to get rid of him at the first opportunity regardless of what problems could prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Gullit wasn't sacked Luke, he was going to be sacked, but did the honourable thing and resigned, something which I always respected him for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? Says the man who started an Allardyce Out thread after fifteen games of his reign. Thankfully the board aren't so rash. I'd say the board sacked Robson for not instantly being successful that season btw. If he was good enough to stay at the end of the previous season then they should have persisted with him through that patch of poor form. The point I'm making is that we HAVEN'T got a track record of sacking managers "too soon", and suggestion that no top manager would come to us because of our "reputation" is mad, because in my view we have no reputation, Robson had near on 5 years in charge, and finished in the bottom half of the table in his first 2 seasons, so I can't see how he was sacked too soon for not being instantly successful. I see what you're saying but Robson and Gullit, although at the club for five years and one year respectively, were sacked for not being instantly succesful in a particular season, which still demonstrates impatience. The case of Robson could be more worrying for potential managers, as it showed the board's disregard for 3 good seasons in the face of an early season wobble. I disagree, most, I'm sure would agree Robson stayed too long, he'd clearly lost the plot and although the vast majority were sad to see the old boy go, those same people knew he had to go and as for Gullit, he quit after admiting that he'd fucked up, and I'm sure you're not advocating he should have been given more time had he not resigned. I fail to see a track record of unresonably sacking managers too soon at St James' Park I'm talking about Robson being sacked in the context of that season - he wasn't sacked for the record of the previous five years, he was sacked for the team's poor performance over the course of 5 or however many games it was - i.e. for not being instantly successful that season. Hardly a track record likely to put off a top class manager from taking the job is it ? The only track record we've aquired is that of appointing the wrong manager. Not in isolation, but add it to the sacking of Gullit for similar reasons and the sacking of Dalglish so early on and you can't really blame people for percieveing us as having itchy trigger fingers. Dalglish is the only example in my opinion of ditching a manager too soon, Gullit had to go and had the grace to recognise that too and left on his own accord, 1 manager sacked too soon in 10 years shouldn't put off any potential managerial targets in my opinion, if that were the case who'd manage in Spain or Italy ? they've never been shy of firing managers and its not stopped the cream from managing their either. Whilst I don't disagree that stability and success is long term that is only the case when you've the right man in charge, I think you could have given Souness, Roeder and Gullit a hundred seasons in charge at Newcastle and you'd not have witnessed progression, time doesn't guarantee success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest James_coDurham Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? I'll re-phrase. First sniff of trouble = instant pressure and over-the-top criticism. Instant pressure and over-the-top criticism = low confidence in manager from team and poor morale. Manager given time, but morale doesn't improve because by this time the "MANAGER OUT NOW" posse grows. Manager eventually sacked, stemming from stupid (majority) fans mounting unnecessary pressure at first available opportunity, and never having the "he can turn things around" attitude. No manager will succeed here. Relegation would actually benefit us to bring the unrealistic wanker supporters back down to earth. This would help as without silly expectations, a manager might actually have time to do something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47147 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? A fortnight ago if you'd had your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22542 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 we never should have sacked robson. look at where we were under him and look at what we've achieved since he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Bobby should never have been sacked, an agreement should have been made behind closed doors for him to help appoint his successor and for him to move upstairs in an ambassador/advisory role. The whole thing was a disgrace. Sure there were problems but we've had much bigger problems in comparison since. The blame must solely lie with the fat controller who made a mess of the whole situation. Its still rankles with me the way in which Bobby was axed and then someone who was not fit to clean his shoes taking over in his place. Sir Bob is exactly right about the place going to ratshit since he left and we have been trying to pick up the pieces ever since. Which is exactly what Robson wanted to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 The rot had set in before the sacking, the boards treatment of him and the football club was farcical looking back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 6951 Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 (edited) Dalglish is the only example in my opinion of ditching a manager too soon, Gullit had to go and had the grace to recognise that too and left on his own accord, 1 manager sacked too soon in 10 years shouldn't put off any potential managerial targets in my opinion, if that were the case who'd manage in Spain or Italy ? they've never been shy of firing managers and its not stopped the cream from managing their either. Dogleash had a great team at his fingertips and completely dismantled it in one summer. That, along with the dour football he served up and poor PR relations - had to go really. Edited December 14, 2007 by Holden McGroin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 4089 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 imagine where we would be today if we had appointed someone like Hitzfeld who was available in the summer 04 =/ Same place that we are now. People expecting instant success would have caused him to be sacked at the first sniff of trouble. Just remind me because I'm getting a bit confused, when was the last time we unreasonably sacked a manager at the first sniff of trouble due to the expectance of instant success ? I'll re-phrase. First sniff of trouble = instant pressure and over-the-top criticism. Instant pressure and over-the-top criticism = low confidence in manager from team and poor morale. Manager given time, but morale doesn't improve because by this time the "MANAGER OUT NOW" posse grows. Manager eventually sacked, stemming from stupid (majority) fans mounting unnecessary pressure at first available opportunity, and never having the "he can turn things around" attitude. No manager will succeed here. Relegation would actually benefit us to bring the unrealistic wanker supporters back down to earth. This would help as without silly expectations, a manager might actually have time to do something here. What absolute bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now