Why does Sam need more time???

[Tom 14021]

XXXL Sam is a massive improvement on Souness and Roeder but that doesnt mean that we have to settle for him.

 

Some of his decisions have been clueless, playing people out of position, making substitutions that will obviously have no effect, playing daft formations etc etc.

 

The only thing he's done to a desirable level so far is talk

[Guest alex]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

We'd lost to worse teams at home too though at this stage. Sheff Utd and Fulham at home spring to mind.

[Happy Face 29]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

 

And the point I'm making is that you can't say he hasn't made any progress and then discount the progress he has patently made.

 

If you want to compare him when he's played all the same games....wait until the end of the season, until then, he's currently performing above expectation.

[manc-mag 1]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

We'd lost to worse teams at home too though at this stage. Sheff Utd and Fulham at home spring to mind.

 

Fucking hell man Alex, you simply haven't got the hairs to split!

[Guest alex]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

We'd lost to worse teams at home too though at this stage. Sheff Utd and Fulham at home spring to mind.

 

Fucking hell man Alex, you simply haven't got the hairs to split!

Cock off.

[Ketsbaia 0]

How many of those who think he's had enough time were grumbling during the Sourness and Roeder days about injuries, fitness, old fashioned coaching facilities, old fashioned coaching methods, nowt coming through the academy, the shit scouting network (of one scout), player behaviour, player attitude, etc, etc, etc?

 

Now because all that hasn't changed in six month we forget about it, and basically sack anyone who isn't an instant success. You can't build a house without foundations.

 

If we sack him no one better is going to want to come here because of the reputation of impatience, the unforgiving, highly demanding atmosphere and the border-line deluded expectations. So our only option is to take a punt on the untried, never-manager-before Shearer. In the words of Leazes: 'Planning'.

 

Spot on, especially the deluded expectations thing.

 

I was engaged in a conversation with two fairly level headed Mackem's yesterday and I couldn't bring myself to stick up for the fans when I got the elbow in the ribs about the booing and general churlishness surrounding our club currently. It didn't help that I was fuming after some utter cretin was on the radio spouting off about how "We'd rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0", "This is the best job in world football" and "Shearer and Keegan dream team would win us the league".

[LeazesMag 0]

not being funny, but I find it quite incredible the amount of people who have harped on in the past about a "plan", etc etc, being the key to success, then when the club inputs this "plan", appointed at the "right time", you all want to start again after less than 20 matches.

 

By all means conclude that Allardyce is not your choice, or he has made a bad start and you think he is now losing the plot / out of his depth / not capable enough [delete as appropriate] but having done that, accept that now you have harped on about these "plans" and such in the past, accept that it was always a load of old bollocks, and the only thing that matters is the manager, not the timing, and that "plan" or not, you have to make the change when or if necessary.

 

FWIW, I would stick with him for a bit longer yet, although I'm quite worried by some of his selections, like most people.

[Ketsbaia 0]

not being funny, but I find it quite incredible the amount of people who have harped on in the past about a "plan", etc etc, being the key to success, then when the club inputs this "plan", appointed at the "right time", you all want to start again after less than 20 matches.

 

By all means conclude that Allardyce is not your choice, or he has made a bad start and you think he is now losing the plot / out of his depth / not capable enough [delete as appropriate] but having done that, accept that now you have harped on about these "plans" and such in the past, accept that it was always a load of old bollocks, and the only thing that matters is the manager, not the timing, and that "plan" or not, you have to make the change when or if necessary.

 

FWIW, I would stick with him for a bit longer yet, although I'm quite worried by some of his selections, like most people.

 

Jimbo, Sammy, Ewerk etc. - take note. You're making Leazes look fucking level headed

[Guest alex]

not being funny, but I find it quite incredible the amount of people who have harped on in the past about a "plan", etc etc, being the key to success, then when the club inputs this "plan", appointed at the "right time", you all want to start again after less than 20 matches.

 

By all means conclude that Allardyce is not your choice, or he has made a bad start and you think he is now losing the plot / out of his depth / not capable enough [delete as appropriate] but having done that, accept that now you have harped on about these "plans" and such in the past, accept that it was always a load of old bollocks, and the only thing that matters is the manager, not the timing, and that "plan" or not, you have to make the change when or if necessary.

 

FWIW, I would stick with him for a bit longer yet, although I'm quite worried by some of his selections, like most people.

[Holden McGroin 6919]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

[ewerk 31592]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

 

And the point I'm making is that you can't say he hasn't made any progress and then discount the progress he has patently made.

 

If you want to compare him when he's played all the same games....wait until the end of the season, until then, he's currently performing above expectation.

 

What progress Do you think he has made? He's brought in a few players who could be decent and got rid of most of the dead wood but since the start of the actual league season I can't see what progress has been made on the field at all.

[Guest alex]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

This didn't come from Pedro. As I said.

[Holden McGroin 6919]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

This didn't come from Pedro. As I said.

 

Yeah. Sorry. Just got carried away!

[Guest alex]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

This didn't come from Pedro. As I said.

 

Yeah. Sorry. Just got carried away!

Re: Gerrard, he reckoned when he worked under KK at England that Gerrard was a bottler for the big England games. He had a point to be fair. Not heard he doesn't rate him.

[Holden McGroin 6919]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

This didn't come from Pedro. As I said.

 

Yeah. Sorry. Just got carried away!

Re: Gerrard, he reckoned when he worked under KK at England that Gerrard was a bottler for the big England games. He had a point to be fair. Not heard he doesn't rate him.

 

He probably got into a Gemmill/Martins situation. Digs himself deeper and deeper into his frailties then starts believing he is crap...

Edited December 5, 2007 by Holden McGroin

[Happy Face 29]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.

 

And the point I'm making is that you can't say he hasn't made any progress and then discount the progress he has patently made.

 

If you want to compare him when he's played all the same games....wait until the end of the season, until then, he's currently performing above expectation.

 

What progress Do you think he has made? He's brought in a few players who could be decent and got rid of most of the dead wood but since the start of the actual league season I can't see what progress has been made on the field at all.

 

So now your changing the goalposts from no progress whatsoever to no progress in style of play. I've not been impressed with the football we've played. But then i was never impressed with the football that Bolton played when he was there and expected nothing else. As long as it translates to a higher league position we'll be happy though, right?

 

And if you look at the games where Allardyce hasn't been able to match or improve on last years result....

 

Liverpool -3

Man City -1

Portsmouth -3

Aston Villa -2

Blackburn -3

 

That's a canny list of teams exactly in the position where we want to be heading in the long term. No?

[ewerk 31592]

So now your changing the goalposts from no progress whatsoever to no progress in style of play. I've not been impressed with the football we've played. But then i was never impressed with the football that Bolton played when he was there and expected nothing else. As long as it translates to a higher league position we'll be happy though, right?

 

And if you look at the games where Allardyce hasn't been able to match or improve on last years result....

 

Liverpool -3

Man City -1

Portsmouth -3

Aston Villa -2

Blackburn -3

 

That's a canny list of teams exactly in the position where we want to be heading in the long term. No?

 

I'm not moving the goalposts, when I'm talking about progress I'm talking about on the field, which should be the result of progress in all areas.

 

I don't really understand your last point, being a bit slow today.

[Fop 1]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

 

The board and chairman had been undermining him for nearly a season, by the time he came out with that "Robson's contract won't be renewed" stuff.

 

Which was pretty much the deathblow - as you say a Ferguson with full backing of his board and authority pretty much fully intact had a massive slump in team form when it became public he voluntarily was leaving (never mind getting the boot).

[Fop 1]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

 

Pedro has some strange ideas though. My mate and his father know him very well and got told a story about Beardo not rating Gerrard.

 

Nevertheless, FFS had already decided to get rid of Bobby no matter what, which I think ultimately undermined him. Similar thing happened with Ferguson at Man Utd when we knew his time was limited.

This didn't come from Pedro. As I said.

 

From FFS?

[Guest alex]

I'll save it for the boozer (assuming anyone's interested) suffice to say he had no recollection of ever having been to Watford :D

[Happy Face 29]

My last point is about slow progress being for the best of the club...and what Sam is achieving. Look at the results we've matched or achieved (with points gained) from the improved 'performance'

 

Bolton +3

Everton +2

West Ham +2

Boro +1

Reading 0

Spurs 0

Wigan 0

 

These teams are all either struggling or mid-table. These are the teams we'd always want to beat, or (for now) to be competing with for places. So in terms of these games he's got us at least doing as well as, but more often doing even better than last year.

 

The teams where we've 'lost' points this year compared to last reads exactly the same as the league table currently stands from 4th to 8th...

 

Liverpool -3

Man City -1

Portsmouth -3

Aston Villa -2

Blackburn -3

 

These are games we took more points from last year, but where on balance it was a suprise result, we had no right to do so.

 

Inconsistency basically. Being 'up' for the big games and overachieving in them, while underperforming against the teams we should be beating. I'm not saying we haven't had a few bad results against poor teams, but certainly no worse than last year.

[bobbyshinton 59]

I think people look back fondly on Robson for obvious reasons, but I don't think we were going anywhere fast in the end, but plenty of fans were acting like we had already got somewhere. There were serious problems behind the scenes, it would have gone bad quite quickly I think, and the lack of a willing replacement would have seen us back in the bottom half (as it did). There are quite a few clubs in the Premiership that have had a good few seasons and yet revert to crap quite easily having achieved nothing or even improved their long term fortunes, and we exhausted our bank account in these times.

 

 

I want rid of the fat B now.

 

I have never liked him. Never wanted him. Also I expected him to do better than this.

[LeazesMag 0]

not being funny, but I find it quite incredible the amount of people who have harped on in the past about a "plan", etc etc, being the key to success, then when the club inputs this "plan", appointed at the "right time", you all want to start again after less than 20 matches.

 

By all means conclude that Allardyce is not your choice, or he has made a bad start and you think he is now losing the plot / out of his depth / not capable enough [delete as appropriate] but having done that, accept that now you have harped on about these "plans" and such in the past, accept that it was always a load of old bollocks, and the only thing that matters is the manager, not the timing, and that "plan" or not, you have to make the change when or if necessary.

 

FWIW, I would stick with him for a bit longer yet, although I'm quite worried by some of his selections, like most people.

 

Jimbo, Sammy, Ewerk etc. - take note. You're making Leazes look fucking level headed

 

I'm always level headed mate, I'm one of the few who don't put personalities before any judgements .........

[LeazesMag 0]

not being funny, but I find it quite incredible the amount of people who have harped on in the past about a "plan", etc etc, being the key to success, then when the club inputs this "plan", appointed at the "right time", you all want to start again after less than 20 matches.

 

By all means conclude that Allardyce is not your choice, or he has made a bad start and you think he is now losing the plot / out of his depth / not capable enough [delete as appropriate] but having done that, accept that now you have harped on about these "plans" and such in the past, accept that it was always a load of old bollocks, and the only thing that matters is the manager, not the timing, and that "plan" or not, you have to make the change when or if necessary.

 

FWIW, I would stick with him for a bit longer yet, although I'm quite worried by some of his selections, like most people.

 

aye, Canny.

[Park Life 71]

I'd give him 2 years min.