Why does Sam need more time???

[Ally 0]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

 

I can't disagree mate, but one major difference is that we weren't scratching our heads at basic managerial decisions like we are at the moment.

 

There were absolutely loads of times people were sat in the perplexed at Robson's decisions tbh.

[JawD 99]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

 

I can't disagree mate, but one major difference is that we weren't scratching our heads at basic managerial decisions like we are at the moment.

 

There were absolutely loads of times people were sat in the perplexed at Robson's decisions tbh.

 

Aye some of his subs were getting strange. BUT, we were still top 6 and playing half decent football. Seems a nice problem to have these days eh.

[sammynb 3355]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

 

I can't disagree mate, but one major difference is that we weren't scratching our heads at basic managerial decisions like we are at the moment.

 

There were absolutely loads of times people were sat in the perplexed at Robson's decisions tbh.

 

Aye some of his subs were getting strange. BUT, we were still top 6 and playing half decent football. Seems a nice problem to have these days eh.

Plus it was obvious to all that SBR had lost his lunch by that stage and was suffering the onset of old age, Allardyce doesn't have that excuse.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Who actually thinks we should sack Allardyce either now or following the Arsenal match? It seems there's an abundance of threads fretting about it when only 4 or 5 people actually want rid, rather than just being a bit unhappy with the start he's made. I think Jimbo, Wacky, Jaysouthernmag, Noelie and Sammy want rid immediately. Who've I missed?

Smooth Operator? I'm guessing the fretting comes from the media stories.

 

Aye, tomorrow's chip wrappers.

 

Can't recall saying I want rid but I don't think I'd be losing any sleep if he was, is there a difference?

 

You've been getting wet with the thoughts of Shearer your lollipop man gives you though.

 

I get wet everytime I speak to the lollipop man tbh and it's got nowt to do with football

[Knackers 0]

Hello Newcastle fans,

 

I'm a new member on this forum, but I've been reading it for quite a while. I've been a barcelona fan for my whole life, but one of my friends is a huge newcastle fan and a member of this forum, so I have started following Newcastle a bit too. Just thought I'd make a few comments about this managerial situation.

 

When Barcelona first hired Frank Rijkaard, we too were promised tales of glory. However, in November of his first year, we were sitting in 10th place, and were just about the laughing stock of Spain. Everyone was calling for Rijkaard's head. He had tons of players at his disposal, but was unable to make them do anything on the pitch. However, our president stuck with him instead of firing him. In January, he hired a new assistant coach, and brought in a new defensive midfielder to help out the back line. Our team was unbeaten the entire second half of the season, and finished in 2nd place after almost being in the RELEGATION ZONE earlier in the season. Yes, in Rijkaard's first season, we were almost in the relegation zone.

 

But look at where we are since. After his first year, he got rid of a lot of underperformers from before, brought in youth players from the academy, and bought good new talent. From being close to relegation zone in 2003, we were the best team in the world in 2006 when we won the La Liga and the Champions League.

 

My point is that good managers, no matter how clueless they seem, should be given time. I'm not saying you guys will win the Premiership anytime soon, but you have nothing to gain by sacking Big Sam. For all you know, Alan Shearer might get you relegated, given his experience! So give the man a chance. At least wait until the end of the year. Another thing, if you sack Big Sam, who is regarded as one of the better managers in England currently, after just 15 games, which top manager would want to join you?

 

Just what I think, thanks for reading. Hope to have good conversations with people on this board!

welcome friend....dont expect to hear anything on here but we want sam sacked, they will not give him time, i admit his tactics are a tad puzzling at times but hey..these lot know much better, most of them know fuck all apart from what they read on hear or read in tabloid newspapers but like the food they eat that fuels thr spotty faces they want it FAST...

[Fop 1]

The two seasons prior to Robson coming in, we finished 13th under Dalglish and 13th under Gullit. After Ruud was sacked, Robson guided us to safety in 11th. The following first full season under Sir Bob we finished 11th again. That summer he bought Bellamy and Robert and we finished 4th, 3rd and 5th in the three following seasons.

 

Last season we finished 13th.

 

So if it took Bobby virtually two full seasons to turn us around, why are you expecting Allardyce (or anyone else for that matter) to do it in 15 games?

 

 

Performance > Position

There were some shit performances mixed in there as well though, Jimbo. They seemed to die out once Wadsworth found a new job mind.

 

I can't disagree mate, but one major difference is that we weren't scratching our heads at basic managerial decisions like we are at the moment.

 

There were absolutely loads of times people were sat in the perplexed at Robson's decisions tbh.

 

Aye some of his subs were getting strange. BUT, we were still top 6 and playing half decent football. Seems a nice problem to have these days eh.

Plus it was obvious to all that SBR had lost his lunch by that stage and was suffering the onset of old age, Allardyce doesn't have that excuse.

 

Aye 5th finishing in the Premiership sure sign of a senile manger that.

[sammynb 3355]

Aye 5th finishing in the Premiership sure sign of a senile manger that.

Of course!

It wasn't a chance result of the other teams around us being crap and our team, which by that stage had finished 4th, 3rd, 5th just being a good unit but obviously in decline?

[Fop 1]

Aye 5th finishing in the Premiership sure sign of a senile manger that.

Of course!

It wasn't a chance result of the other teams around us being crap and our team, which by that stage had finished 4th, 3rd, 5th just being a good unit but obviously in decline?

 

Or indeed FFS and feckless Hall completely undermining him and messing with the team and probably Shearer's unrest in the dressing room adding to issues. Nope must be senility.

 

 

Maybe we should be looking for "senile" managers if that's the success they bring us.

[sammynb 3355]

Aye 5th finishing in the Premiership sure sign of a senile manger that.

Of course!

It wasn't a chance result of the other teams around us being crap and our team, which by that stage had finished 4th, 3rd, 5th just being a good unit but obviously in decline?

 

Or indeed FFS and feckless Hall completely undermining him and messing with the team and probably Shearer's unrest in the dressing room adding to issues. Nope must be senility.

 

 

Maybe we should be looking for "senile" managers if that's the success they bring us.

Ok Fop, whatever you say, we know you're always right but if a man who can't even remember the names of his players to you is 100% on the ball then so be it, you go out there and hire one for your pub team.

IMHO he should have been moved upstairs and still part of the club's football staff but he'd lost more than his lunch which wasn't helped by the fat man or the likes of Dyer.

[RlCO 0]

I think people look back fondly on Robson for obvious reasons, but I don't think we were going anywhere fast in the end, but plenty of fans were acting like we had already got somewhere. There were serious problems behind the scenes, it would have gone bad quite quickly I think, and the lack of a willing replacement would have seen us back in the bottom half (as it did). There are quite a few clubs in the Premiership that have had a good few seasons and yet revert to crap quite easily having achieved nothing or even improved their long term fortunes, and we exhausted our bank account in these times.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

How many of those who think he's had enough time were grumbling during the Sourness and Roeder days about injuries, fitness, old fashioned coaching facilities, old fashioned coaching methods, nowt coming through the academy, the shit scouting network (of one scout), player behaviour, player attitude, etc, etc, etc?

 

Now because all that hasn't changed in six month we forget about it, and basically sack anyone who isn't an instant success. You can't build a house without foundations.

 

If we sack him no one better is going to want to come here because of the reputation of impatience, the unforgiving, highly demanding atmosphere and the border-line deluded expectations. So our only option is to take a punt on the untried, never-manager-before Shearer. In the words of Leazes: 'Planning'.

[Ken 119]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Sam Allardyce to stay.

 

People who think Alan Shearer is the answer because of a gut feeling are having a dream and a laugh. And if the bad run continues under Shearer, what then?

Demand he be sacked and fantasise about Mourinho being the manager next season?

 

C'mon now, anybody who thought the club was going to finish any higher than 9th or 10th this season (and were being serious about it), need a reality check.

 

Allardyce needs at least the whole of this season, and then see how much he's progressed the club, not only on the table but everything within the club, which was an incredulous shambles before he took the job on. If the players still look clueless by season's end and we finish equal or worse than last season then look for a change. Hopefully Mike Ashley has grapefruits as balls and ignores the boo boys...for now.

 

Thankfully the players have backed him, (which is all that matters rather than people here with big dreams typing out gut feelings and impatient vitriol) and hopefully the club can move forwards again (after the expected loss to Arsenal of course).

Edited December 5, 2007 by Ken

[Ken 119]

Source: The Times

 

As Newcastle United begin a series of matches that have the potential to shape the course of their season and determine the future of their manager, a “desperate” Sam Allardyce received vigorous public support from the club’s two longest-serving players. During the build-up to this evening’s Barclays Premier League match at home to Arsenal, Shay Given and Steve Harper, the goalkeepers, offered their unequivocal backing.

 

With Allardyce admitting to insomnia as he attempts to reverse his team’s stuttering form — they have grasped only one point from the past 15 available — speculation continues to thrive on Tyneside. Reports that the manager faces the sack in the event of defeat by Arsène Wenger’s team said to be inaccurate, but the club’s ambition to avoid short-termism is being undermined by poor results. After the visit of Arsenal, Newcastle play Birmingham City, Fulham, Derby County and Wigan Athletic before facing Chelsea away on December 29.

 

Allardyce still retains the favour of Mike Ashley, the club’s owner — the two men enjoyed a jocular conversation last weekend at Ewood Park, where Newcastle lost 3-1 to Blackburn Rovers — but the goodwill has been overshadowed by suggestions that the Newcastle dressing-room is in open revolt, a notion that Given and Harper were quick to counter. While the goalkeepers were part of a three-man delegation that discussed a series of concerns with Allardyce last week, they denied that their meeting amounted to “player power”.

 

“Sam Allardyce has the full backing and support of every Newcastle United player and we are all working together as one to bring success to the football club,” Given and Harper, who sit on Newcastle’s players’ committee, said in a statement. “Many issues are openly discussed between players and the manager, as is commonplace at any club — this is sensible and constructive communication.”

Related Links

 

While Allardyce’s scientific methods and tactics represent a drastic change of approach for most Newcastle players, Given and Harper said that they were “absolutely furious” that their talks should be interpreted as confrontational or insurrection.

 

Yet Allardyce would be better served by a venomous display against Arsenal this evening. Newcastle’s previous two home matches have brought heavy reversals and the 3-0 defeat by Liverpool two weeks ago provoked considerable abuse for Glenn Roeder’s successor. “We are all uncomfortable with the situation at the moment,” Allardyce said. “We are all getting a little bit desperate.”

 

As far as the manager is concerned, “judgment comes at 38 games, not at 14” and, while Arsenal may appear irrepressible, a glamorous match offers the possibility of redemption. “I know there are a few fears and trepidations because results are not going right, but these are the games when you should produce your best,” he said. “With a big crowd, against a big team, go and show what you can do.”

 

If some fans are hostile and more are suspicious, their relationship with Allardyce is still new, still raw. “I’ve been here with Bolton and battered Newcastle and got beat 1-0,” he said. “Fans are only interested in winning, like us all. I don’t know where that perception comes from that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0. I think it is all a myth.”

 

He rejected accusations that his tactical approach is overly pragmatic. “If you don’t weigh up the opposition, then you can’t set your stall out to stop their strengths,” he said. “They’ll expose you and you’ll end up losing more and more. Who wins most games? Arsenal. And who has the most clean sheets? Either Arsenal or Manchester United. The only way to win a game of football is to concede less than anyone else.”

 

Balance is elusive because impetus has been lost since Newcastle embarked on a five-match unbeaten run at the start of the season. “We’re behind schedule because we’ve suffered a number of defeats which could have been avoided, we haven’t drawn the sort of games we were capable of drawing and not won the games we perhaps thought we should have done,” Allardyce said.

 

“It is a period that is difficult for us. We did not expect it to happen for as long as it has, but it has. There are many different factors we could point to which have not helped our cause, but, sooner rather than later, we will get the victory which will settle us all down.”

[acrossthepond 877]

After the visit of Arsenal, Newcastle play Birmingham City, Fulham, Derby County and Wigan Athletic before facing Chelsea away on December 29.

 

I will say this, lads - if we don't take at least 9 points off this sad lot I doubt many of you who are backing Sam (and are praying for rain) will be singing the same tune by New Year's.

 

In fact, if we don't take at least 9 points I don't think he'll have a job by New Year's, and you won't hear me complaining. These are must-win games. If he can't win these - especially in the sad, pathetic, downtrodden fashion in which we lost against Reading, Pompey, and Liverpool - then he doesn't deserve the job. Time or no time. Foundations or no foundations.

[ewerk 30610]

"I don’t know where that perception comes from that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0. I think it is all a myth.”

 

At least he's got one thing right, the problem is we haven't been winning at all.

[Fop 1]

Aye 5th finishing in the Premiership sure sign of a senile manger that.

Of course!

It wasn't a chance result of the other teams around us being crap and our team, which by that stage had finished 4th, 3rd, 5th just being a good unit but obviously in decline?

 

Or indeed FFS and feckless Hall completely undermining him and messing with the team and probably Shearer's unrest in the dressing room adding to issues. Nope must be senility.

 

 

Maybe we should be looking for "senile" managers if that's the success they bring us.

Ok Fop, whatever you say, we know you're always right but if a man who can't even remember the names of his players to you is 100% on the ball then so be it, you go out there and hire one for your pub team.

IMHO he should have been moved upstairs and still part of the club's football staff but he'd lost more than his lunch which wasn't helped by the fat man or the likes of Dyer.

 

If you know ANYTHING about Robson, which clearly you DO NOT , you know that the guy has been forgetting the names of his players since BEFORE he was England coach. That's just what he is (and was) like.

 

So had he been "senile" for 25 years by that point? Pretty good record for a "senile" guy during those years.

 

That's not to say he was as sharp as he ever was, but senile? You don't come 5th whilst being senile, there where plenty of issues with the club, but Robson and Robson's mind were the very least of them at that point.

 

 

 

So amazingly I am right, as I seem to have 1/2 a clue about what I speak, unlike yourself (as usual).

Edited December 5, 2007 by Fop

[Guest alex]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

[Fop 1]

I actually heard a story from someone trustworthy (not Pedro, ok Holden?) which suggests Robson was going a bit senile towards the end. Nothing to do with forgetting a player's name either.

He almost certainly was in decline at that age (I couldn't see him managing much past the season he was sacked in at the time - even if he hadn't been completely undermined by the board and had issues like Shearer's unrest), but as I said he'd been messing up players names since forever pretty much, and if you can get 5th and be senile, well that says something too.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Ok, Sam has managed Bolton for 8 years, mostly in the premiership. He is a football manager, thats his trade and a bloody well paid one at that. His job is to get results and deliver silverware, which is what he was brought here to do.

 

SO after 5 months, buying the players HE wanted, working day in day out on the training ground with them why cant he get them to perform and play football?

 

We have a team of former, curent and future internationals like Viduka,Emre,Owen,Martins,Butt,Rozenhal,Given,Milner,Taylor,Smith,Barton,Geremi and Zoggy, the list goes on.

 

He is working with players of considerable higher quality and potential than he ever had at Bolton and he still doesnt look like achieving anywhere near what is expected. Loses to Derby and Reading, Draws at Boro and Mackems, home hammerings by Pompy and Liverpool, aimless longballs, players out of position, defensive problems, the list goes on

 

If any professional person took a position in another industry would they be allowed to fuck things up royaly while bleating about needing more time to do a job they have been doing successfully for 8 years, I dont think so. Why then does fatty keep insisting on more time???

 

I have seen what he can offer us and I dont like the look of it and things will get a shite site worse when we play Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People will point to our league position, look again in Febuary and if we carry on like this we will be in the bottom 6 and another season is written off

 

A professional person in another industry would get a certain amount of time to turn around the situation without the constant ridicule of customers and the press.

 

Marks and Sparks has had a REALLY long slow climb to it's current position from it's crash about ten years back, but it's gained a modicum of success from it.

 

I know this was posted way back but.. The team at Marks posted business plans on how they were going to achieve success. They had quarterly meetings at which proof of improvement was shown and the next stage planned. Below thoose quarterly meetings will have been monthly weekly and daily meetings in which any problems were brought up shared and fixed. At NUFC we have Big Sam not giving any proof of improvement at all.

[Happy Face 29]

Ok, Sam has managed Bolton for 8 years, mostly in the premiership. He is a football manager, thats his trade and a bloody well paid one at that. His job is to get results and deliver silverware, which is what he was brought here to do.

 

SO after 5 months, buying the players HE wanted, working day in day out on the training ground with them why cant he get them to perform and play football?

 

We have a team of former, curent and future internationals like Viduka,Emre,Owen,Martins,Butt,Rozenhal,Given,Milner,Taylor,Smith,Barton,Geremi and Zoggy, the list goes on.

 

He is working with players of considerable higher quality and potential than he ever had at Bolton and he still doesnt look like achieving anywhere near what is expected. Loses to Derby and Reading, Draws at Boro and Mackems, home hammerings by Pompy and Liverpool, aimless longballs, players out of position, defensive problems, the list goes on

 

If any professional person took a position in another industry would they be allowed to fuck things up royaly while bleating about needing more time to do a job they have been doing successfully for 8 years, I dont think so. Why then does fatty keep insisting on more time???

 

I have seen what he can offer us and I dont like the look of it and things will get a shite site worse when we play Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea.

 

People will point to our league position, look again in Febuary and if we carry on like this we will be in the bottom 6 and another season is written off

 

A professional person in another industry would get a certain amount of time to turn around the situation without the constant ridicule of customers and the press.

 

Marks and Sparks has had a REALLY long slow climb to it's current position from it's crash about ten years back, but it's gained a modicum of success from it.

 

I know this was posted way back but.. The team at Marks posted business plans on how they were going to achieve success. They had quarterly meetings at which proof of improvement was shown and the next stage planned. Below thoose quarterly meetings will have been monthly weekly and daily meetings in which any problems were brought up shared and fixed. At NUFC we have Big Sam not giving any proof of improvement at all.

 

Apart from being higher in the league than the last man finished...which is the only progress that counts really.

[Guest alex]

Higher than at the same stage last season too.

[ewerk 30610]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

Edited December 5, 2007 by ewerk

[Happy Face 29]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

[Guest alex]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

It's still a valid comparison imo. We're almost halfway through the season.

[ewerk 30610]

Except that at this stage last season we'd already played Man U and Arsenal away and had European football to play as well.

 

After tonight we'll have played Liverpool and Arsenal and still be higher.

 

Well we'd already played Liverpool away as well at this stage, the point I'm making is that we've had easier games up to this point then we did last season.