Good person/bad person

[Guest stevieintoon]

Do you think it's acceptable that upbringing can be seen to completely justify the behaviour and mental state of a grown man or woman?

 

I think it's a difficult question to answer if I'm honest. Obviously if you grow up with no parents, no role model, no rules, the chances are you will have deep emotional issues, which could cause you to be a total bastard. Is it fair for people who had a more stable childhood to judge these people? There's a few people I know who fall in to the above category, who are basically scumbags, but should I judge them when they had no chance anyway? Or is that just bollocks. By the same token one of my mates grew up in a one parent family, and he's one of the best most placid kids you could ever meet.

 

My point is if a man say in his late thirties has no standards of decency, with a horrific upbringing, can that be blamed on him or is he purely a victim of circumstance, or a bit of both? Are scumbags born scumbags regardless of their upbringing and environment? I can't decide to be honest but one things for certain never, ever expect people to have the same levels of sanity and morality as you do, because it just doesn't happen. So many people out there with deep routed problems, who are basically fucked for life. It's something I've thought a lot about in the last few days with a few people I know who in essence are scum, but should I judge, or could it be said regardless of a disasterous childhood these people have a choice to be good or bad?

[trophyshy 7099]

Do you think it's acceptable that upbringing can be seen to completely justify the behaviour and mental state of a grown man or woman?

 

I think it's a difficult question to answer if I'm honest. Obviously if you grow up with no parents, no role model, no rules, the chances are you will have deep emotional issues, which could cause you to be a total bastard. Is it fair for people who had a more stable childhood to judge these people? There's a few people I know who fall in to the above category, who are basically scumbags, but should I judge them when they had no chance anyway? Or is that just bollocks. By the same token one of my mates grew up in a one parent family, and he's one of the best most placid kids you could ever meet.

 

My point is if a man say in his late thirties has no standards of decency, with a horrific upbringing, can that be blamed on him or is he purely a victim of circumstance, or a bit of both? Are scumbags born scumbags regardless of their upbringing and environment? I can't decide to be honest but one things for certain never, ever expect people to have the same levels of sanity and morality as you do, because it just doesn't happen. So many people out there with deep routed problems, who are basically fucked for life. It's something I've thought a lot about in the last few days with a few people I know who in essence are scum, but should I judge, or could it be said regardless of a disasterous childhood these people have a choice to be good or bad?

 

I think if you have an awareness of 'your' issues, and the root of them, then it is your responsibility to manage them. My mother comes from a long line of psychos and I feel it building up inside me occasionally.

 

If they are not very bright then their unlikley to be able to control what is hard wired in formative years. But born scum, no. Born into scum, yes.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I don't think there's an easy answer to this one. I used to always think people had no-one blame but themselves, but in my line of work I interact with people like this all the time who've just acted up because they haven't been taught any different. So, lefty hat on, I think you can steer a 'bad' person to be 'good' if you give them the opportunities..re-educate them..whatever you'd like to call it. Having said that, I've also met some right bastards who even their mothers surely can't love.

[Guest stevieintoon]

Do you think it's acceptable that upbringing can be seen to completely justify the behaviour and mental state of a grown man or woman?

 

I think it's a difficult question to answer if I'm honest. Obviously if you grow up with no parents, no role model, no rules, the chances are you will have deep emotional issues, which could cause you to be a total bastard. Is it fair for people who had a more stable childhood to judge these people? There's a few people I know who fall in to the above category, who are basically scumbags, but should I judge them when they had no chance anyway? Or is that just bollocks. By the same token one of my mates grew up in a one parent family, and he's one of the best most placid kids you could ever meet.

 

My point is if a man say in his late thirties has no standards of decency, with a horrific upbringing, can that be blamed on him or is he purely a victim of circumstance, or a bit of both? Are scumbags born scumbags regardless of their upbringing and environment? I can't decide to be honest but one things for certain never, ever expect people to have the same levels of sanity and morality as you do, because it just doesn't happen. So many people out there with deep routed problems, who are basically fucked for life. It's something I've thought a lot about in the last few days with a few people I know who in essence are scum, but should I judge, or could it be said regardless of a disasterous childhood these people have a choice to be good or bad?

 

I think if you have an awareness of 'your' issues, and the root of them, then it is your responsibility to manage them. My mother comes from a long line of psychos and I feel it building up inside me occasionally.

 

If they are not very bright then their unlikley to be able to control what is hard wired in formative years. But born scum, no. Born into scum, yes.

What if there's no one to teach you right or wrong? Is it still your responsibility? I mean how alone in the world must a child feel with no mother or father, it has to have an unbelievable impact on who you are, causing problems such as a lack of decency in later life? It's hard to judge these people.

[JawD 99]

Well, someones upbringing moulds them. From both their parents and their peers. But they can only be accountable for their own actions. Fact is, many "scumbags" shouldnt be allowed to breed. But if one of their offspring commit a crime, they themselves can only be punished. Not necessarily completely fair, if they didnt know any different, but how do you judge?

[NJS 4453]

"Nature Vs Nurture" by Matt Ridley - I'd recommend it.

 

Its very much a mixture of the two - a human is born with a genetic setup which needs certain influences to finish the job of "hard-wiring" the brain - those influences include all of the obvious factors like amount of love etc etc. Of course if there are genetic defects then that can affect the picture - just as the wrong kind of influences can affect a "perfect" child.

[Guest alex]

The old nature - nuture debate is one that will probably never be resolved one way or the other. I will say that while people's upbrining is obviously a huge influence I think a big problem with society in general, rather than specifically in this case, is that people are always looking for a get-out clause rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. I do sympathise with people who haven't been brought up very well too. That's another big problem with UK society imo.

[Guest stevieintoon]

Well, someones upbringing moulds them. From both their parents and their peers. But they can only be accountable for their own actions. Fact is, many "scumbags" shouldnt be allowed to breed. But if one of their offspring commit a crime, they themselves can only be punished. Not necessarily completely fair, if they didnt know any different, but how do you judge?

Totally agree. One of my mates is a polliss, but he's a good lad despite that. He polices the West End, and he said even though before you join the police, you're aware of scum on the streets, he said you're not prepared for the sheer volumes and lack of social and moral decency. He reckons in some of these areas and I'm not singling these places out, you have entire families living on state handouts, and their parents were, their kids will be too, not because of lack of job opportunities but because of the choices they make. He's seen first hand 21 year old mothers of two, depriving their young children of food to fund their tobacco habits, I'm pleased I've been sheltered from that way of life.

[Happy Face 29]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

[Guest alex]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

I think you're painting a rosy picture of yourself there tbh.

[Guest stevieintoon]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

I think you're painting a rosy picture of yourself there tbh.

I was thinking the same thing

[Happy Face 29]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

I think you're painting a rosy picture of yourself there tbh.

 

Fuck off, you're a twat

[Guest alex]

Banter!

[NJS 4453]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

Recent studies of very small children show that their is a baseline evolved morality in all humans from very young. Simple things like being upset if you see someone suffering are pretty much genetic.

[Fop 1]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

[luckyluke 2]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

[The Fish 11102]

Just wrote a response to this, then closed the wrong window.

 

The gist of it was that I believe certain facets of the human psyche are hard wired, like the urge to protect the weak, the urge to group. As are our darker urges, our greed, our territorial nature, our aggression.

 

I think modern (Homo-Sapien) man has controlled and loaded those dark tendencies to greater enable the "pack" to survive. To have everything would be great, but we know that, to share, will give our "pack" greater strength and be in a better position to look after itself in the future.

 

This is obviously much simplified.

 

 

 

Safe to say I believe the balance between nature and nurture is lying heavily on the nurture side in modern man. It depends how deeply the values and social tendencies have been processed. You could take a boy from war-torn Benwell place him in a wealthy home in the Hamptons, with good food, education, opportunities and wanting for nothing and he wouldn't be the same man that would have existed had he stayed.

Edited November 27, 2007 by The Fish

[Fop 1]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

 

Hypocrisy; nature or nurture: Discuss.

[Meenzer 15873]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

 

Hypocrisy; nature or nurture: Discuss.

 

No idea, but I bet your parents italicised and underlined you all the time as a bairn.

[sammynb 3655]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

 

Hypocrisy; nature or nurture: Discuss.

 

No idea, but I bet your parents italicised and underlined you all the time as a bairn.

He was never told just bold.

[Fop 1]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

 

Hypocrisy; nature or nurture: Discuss.

 

No idea, but I bet your parents italicised and underlined you all the time as a bairn.

He was never told just bold.

 

I love the hate bandwagon here, especially the mutual masturbation over clearly very ordinary insults. Nature or Nurture?

[Meenzer 15873]

I love the hate bandwagon here, especially the mutual masturbation over clearly very ordinary insults. Nature or Nurture?

You seem to be terribly paranoid. Hate bandwagon? I've been ripping you over your posting style for aeons man.

[Fop 1]

I love the hate bandwagon here, especially the mutual masturbation over clearly very ordinary insults. Nature or Nurture?

You seem to be terribly paranoid. Hate bandwagon? I've been ripping you over your posting style for aeons man.

 

Aye, it's still funny what it engenders though.

[The Fish 11102]

it's not "hate" anyway.

 

you're just being precious.

 

if anyone suffers the hate it's me,

 

they're jealous of my status, my effortless style and my exquisite taste in comics.

Edited November 27, 2007 by The Fish

[Guest alex]

Of course morality is learned, whether it's from your parents or anyone else who's able to reach you.

 

That does beg the question which morals does a person need to have to avoid being branded a scum bag. I was always taught if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything. A lot of people on here base their online persona on the antithesis of that rule, but I don't know that they're scumbags, just .... happier to display their contempt.

 

 

 

I would extend it to include don't post patronising smilies.

 

Hypocrisy; nature or nurture: Discuss.

 

No idea, but I bet your parents italicised and underlined you all the time as a bairn.